[Politics] Dominic Cummings' £30k unpaid council tax bill 'written off'

[rippleman]

Even if they were holiday lets, they needed planning permission, even more so, because they’d come under commercial instead of domestic.

Absolutely. And holiday let properties are subject to business rates (rather than council tax) because they are deemed to be commercial property.

https://www.gov.uk/introduction-to-business-rates/self-catering-and-holiday-let-accommodation

 

[Westdene Seagull]

And bringing US politics into it is going to help it stay on track how!?

Maybe I'm being wooshed here but what on earth are you on about ?

 

[wellquickwoody]

I offer no defence for what has occurred but I can confirm-

Dwellings built without planning permission / not in accordance with planning permission gain a lawful status after 4 years. There is nothing the council can do about that.

Council tax in these circumstances is never backdated it’s just applied from the date it was bought to the council’s attention.

So in both cases- the standard approach has been followed.

End of claims of favouritism from the lefties now I hope?

 

[wellquickwoody]

Seven years and there are still restrictions.
https://www.markstephensarchitects....-need-planning-permission-ccferrie-mentioned/

Council tax can be backdated

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5291855/council-tax-debt-from-13-years-ago

On point one, restrictions are lifted once retrospective permission is obtained.

Your point two is an entirely different set of circumstances. The Labour council would have love to have penalised Cummings, and rightly so, but they could not.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

thats key point, if council dont act, no backdating is due. but media have splashed an amount is "written off", everyone assumes they've researched the detail and giving a well informed account of the facts.

The irony being that the media exposed the dwellings because Covid lockdown rules didn’t apply to Cummings despite his wife lying about staying in London, in the Spectator.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

On point one, restrictions are lifted once retrospective permission is obtained.

Your point two is an entirely different set of circumstances. The Labour council would have love to have penalised Cummings, and rightly so, but they could not.

Has he, or his father obtained retrospective planning permission since May?

 

[Billy the Fish]

doubt the Labour run local authority would have let him off anything if they could help it. probably there is no evidence the buildings have been used as dwellings for past 20 years. werent they supposed to be holiday lets, Cummings claimed were a home to excuse the trip there? he's skirted through the edges of the rules.

And some ordinary people have been granted retrospective planning permission when found out rather than having to demolish
* edited for you

Also is there any statistical evidence anyone has that proves that everyone else gets backdated charges / doesn't have to pay any charges in similar circumstances? or are people just leaping to the conclusion this is the only exception because of who it is ?

The other, probably more important question then would be why this authority decided not to backdate if that is normal practice, what's the reasoning behind this decision and how does that compare to other similar cases they've dealt with? (If it is a Labour council, why have they decided this, it wouldn't appear to be out of political loyalty? You'd hope not but is there an element of knowing this decision they've made will cause a political controversy and paint someone connected to their opposition in a bad light )

Sorry chaps, there's no place here for reason or logic.

It's quite obvious that the evil cummings used his dark magic to avoid tax just to stick two fingers up to the public. He probably infected the houses with covid just for good measure.

 

[JamesAndTheGiantHead]

 

[Wardy's twin]

Aren't the basic facts that he/his family built commercial buildings without permission and did so deliberately proving that his/their contempt for the law predates the COVID incident.

I agree he/they aren't alone in doing this but this guy is the senior de-facto law maker in this country and really should show some morals and lead by example.

Of course one could argue that his set of morals is leading a corrupt government by example.

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

Seven years and there are still restrictions.
https://www.markstephensarchitects....-need-planning-permission-ccferrie-mentioned/

Council tax can be backdated

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5291855/council-tax-debt-from-13-years-ago

For planning permission the relevant legislation is s171B of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990- this confirms immunity from enforcement action after 4 years:



For council tax- I believe they don't backdate to before the time the account existed- i.e. they will only charge from the point the property is brought to their attention. This is a different scenario to where someone had outstanding debt on an established account.

There is a news story here- the main issue being that he and / or his family carried out development without or not in accordance with planning permission, and that they didn't register the separate dwellings for council tax at the time they were brought into use. That is possibly the angle which should be pursued- i.e. why didn't they follow the rules?

In terms of what has been done by the authorities since it has come to light- on the planning issue they have no power to take action against a development which has become lawful through the passage of time. On the council tax issue, I can see an argument in favour of backdating to when the dwelling was established, but it appears that this is not the standard practice which is followed. So in both cases, it appears that there has been no special treatment.

 

[Stat Brother]

Aren't the basic facts that he/his family built commercial buildings without permission and did so deliberately proving that his/their contempt for the law predates the COVID incident.

I agree he/they aren't alone in doing this but this guy is the senior de-facto law maker in this country and really should show some morals and lead by example.

Of course one could argue that his set of morals is leading a corrupt government by example.

They didn't even have the decency to surround the houses with hay bales, like in the good old days of planning fraud.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

For planning permission the relevant legislation is s171B of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990- this confirms immunity from enforcement action after 4 years:

View attachment 129493

For council tax- I believe they don't backdate to before the time the account existed- i.e. they will only charge from the point the property is brought to their attention. This is a different scenario to where someone had outstanding debt on an established account.

There is a news story here- the main issue being that he and / or his family carried out development without or not in accordance with planning permission, and that they didn't register the separate dwellings for council tax at the time they were brought into use. That is possibly the angle which should be pursued- i.e. why didn't they follow the rules?

In terms of what has been done by the authorities since it has come to light- on the planning issue they have no power to take action against a development which has become lawful through the passage of time. On the council tax issue, I can see an argument in favour of backdating to when the dwelling was established, but it appears that this is not the standard practice which is followed. So in both cases, it appears that there has been no special treatment.

That was superceded by the 2000 Act to which there is a link, in my post, in the architects website.

 

[beorhthelm]

They didn't even have the decency to surround the houses with hay bales, like in the good old days of planning fraud.

iirc the subtefuge there is why he lost his case. build in plain sight, no one objects, then you're on a winner.

 

[Nathan]

iirc the subtefuge there is why he lost his case. build in plain sight, no one objects, then you're on a winner.

He had to knock it down as well.

 

[Surf's Up]

I think I've got this right. So he and his sister built two illegal dwellings on his dad's farm and have never paid any council tax, and now the council have caught up with him the charge kicks in from 4th October. So nothing has ben backdated for all the time those new dwellings have been there, no penalties whatsover.

That's like having a sole trade, not declaring it and not paying tax on the profit, then HMRC finding out. Only they would expect you to pay the tax arrears, ditto if you let a property and received undeclared rent.

Slight but significant amendment

 

[wellquickwoody]

Has he, or his father obtained retrospective planning permission since May?

I haven’t got the foggiest, but the property still stands and will not be demolished.

You would be subject to the same rules. The man is an arse but is not receiving special treatment.

 

[Surf's Up]

This guy really doesn't give a flying **** does he.

 

[mwrpoole]

For planning permission the relevant legislation is s171B of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990- this confirms immunity from enforcement action after 4 years:

View attachment 129493

For council tax- I believe they don't backdate to before the time the account existed- i.e. they will only charge from the point the property is brought to their attention. This is a different scenario to where someone had outstanding debt on an established account.

There is a news story here- the main issue being that he and / or his family carried out development without or not in accordance with planning permission, and that they didn't register the separate dwellings for council tax at the time they were brought into use. That is possibly the angle which should be pursued- i.e. why didn't they follow the rules?

In terms of what has been done by the authorities since it has come to light- on the planning issue they have no power to take action against a development which has become lawful through the passage of time. On the council tax issue, I can see an argument in favour of backdating to when the dwelling was established, but it appears that this is not the standard practice which is followed. So in both cases, it appears that there has been no special treatment.

You are correct re Council Tax.

The valuation of properties is carried out by the Valuation Office Agency (VO), part of HMRC. They don't go out looking for properties to value, they act on requests from Local Authorities. They hadn't been asked to value these properties because the local council didn't ask them to. When they have properties that need valuing they cannot backdate the effective date, it can only be done from the date it is reported to the VO. This is done to put pressure on LA's to effectively manage their respective properties both domestic and commercial, as any maladministration will cost them. Of course the Cummings family should have reported these properties to the respective authorities and they are guilty of not doing so. But the local council are equally guilty, these properties were on the news in March but it's still taken them 6 months to do something about it. They do have staff whose job is to look out for properties being built/developed without the relevant permissions and they have somehow missed these.

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

That was superceded by the 2000 Act to which there is a link, in my post, in the architects website.

That architect is commenting on the Irish system.

The English system is 4 years as per my post

 

[The Clamp]

Mark my words, Cummings will end up in prison one day. Or be found dead in unexplained circumstances. He’s got “sticky ending” written all over him.