Doesn't look good for the terrorist Mandela

[BadFish]

Oh no, not the old the-BBC-is-a-hotbed-of-lefties myth.

The current chairman of the BBC Trust is Lord Patten, who served Prime Minister Thatcher and our nation so loyally, here and abroad. The Political Editor used to be chairman of the Young Conservatives. The long-serving Chief Political Correspondent recently left to take up a job as Boris Johnson's PR man. The current Editor of live programmes was in a right-wing organisation that was so extreme that even Norman Tebbit was obliged to close it down for being too right-wing loopy. That was the Federation of Conservative Students. Remember them? Maggie's Militant Tendency, they called themselves. Hardly a gang of swivel-eyed Marxist nutters plaguing our airwaves. And you don't get Labour supporters citing these facts as evidence of supposed right-wing bias at the BBC.

I have no idea how many influential people who work at the BBC you have met, and I'd be happy to be shot down in flames if your experiences are radically different to mine. By influential, I mean decision-makers like commissioning editors, anchors, producers, reporters, editors, presenters and the like. My job has obliged me to come into contact with the BBC from time to time so I've met quite a few of these people over the last few decades and, if I was asked to take an educated guess at their political leanings, I would say that they all gave the appearance of being natural Tory voters. All of the ones I have met, without exception, come from relatively well-off backgrounds and every single one was educated privately. I've only met a few dozen such people in this huge organisation, but natural-born lefties appear to me to be thin on the ground at the Beeb in my experience.

I am not suggesting that private education therefore equals right-winger. But the likelihood that they are all raving Trotskyites is, at the very least, open to question.

These arty-farty pinkos with tweed jackets, beards and elbow-patches you talk about....where are they then? I would be amazed, absolutely staggered even, if you were to spend a month wandering the corridors of the BBC and you found even one person who resembled this ridiculous stereotype. Of course, you are entitled to your views about the BBC, but is it really fair to state stuff like this with no evidence at all?

Just because a news organisation does not express traditional right-wing views does not automatically mean it is left-wing, or vice-versa. Just because a news organisation poses what some, on the right and the left, might consider to be uncomfortable questions, doesn't make it necessarily against that particular view; it means it's being neutral and asking for opinions to be clarified on behalf of their viewers and / or listeners. This is exactly what it is supposed to be doing. Indeed, it is obliged by law to do exactly this; to uphold impartiality. Just the same as ITN and Sky News.

The idea that an organisation this vast could possibly lean one way more than the other is difficult to sustain; it's just too bloody big and spread out. If it were possible, however, the balance of probability is that it would bend to the right, if anything. And I don't for one moment think that it does.

Don't forget you are talking to someone who bases all his opinions on these ridiculous stereotypes. Be it left wingers, black africans or any other group of people small or large 'People like him' (my favourite of the vague generalisations) will always default to the lowest common denominator of the popular stereotype.

Must go i have to sew some organic, free trade patches onto my tweed jacket.

 

[topbanana36]

Are you comparing Mandela with Gaddafi or Gaddafi with the IRA ?

Planting bombs in dustbins in a pedestrian precinct in Warrington or other such atrocities committed by the IRA is closer to the atrocities committed by the South African government of Viljoen and Botha than anything Mandela did or was plotting to do.
You need a crash course in state sponsored terrorism outside of Libya if any of your argument is to be taken seriously TB.

The Church Street bombing was a car bomb attack on 20 May 1983 by Umkhonto we Sizwe, the military wing of the African National Congress, in the South African capital Pretoria. Signed off by Mandela. Please explain how different from the IRA.

 

[Dandyman]

Are you comparing Mandela with Gaddafi or Gaddafi with the IRA ?

Planting bombs in dustbins in a pedestrian precinct in Warrington or other such atrocities committed by the IRA is closer to the atrocities committed by the South African government of Viljoen and Botha than anything Mandela did or was plotting to do.
You need a crash course in state sponsored terrorism outside of Libya if any of your argument is to be taken seriously TB.

This. Anyone who wants to talk about terrorism in the context of South Africa should read about the murders of Ruth First and Chris Hani and the maiming of Albie Sachs.

 

[BadFish]

Good post. My limited, but real, contact with the BBC, while probably less extensive than yours, is entirely consistent with this. I think the BBC could be justifiably accused of being middle-class in orientation, and too bound up with what goes on in London and SE England (though they are trying to rectify this, and the recent shift of some activities to Salford will help). But they really don't come over as left-wing to me at all, and I'd be interested to see the evidence which confirms this supposed bias.

My best mate from school has been a director at the BBC for a number of years and has become far more right wing than he has been before in the 7 years since I last saw him. When I suggested to him he should be some kind of commie pinko because he worked at the BBC he laughed his tits off and called me a gullible idiot for believing the rhetoric.

 

[Dandyman]

The Church Street bombing was a car bomb attack on 20 May 1983 by Umkhonto we Sizwe, the military wing of the African National Congress, in the South African capital Pretoria. Signed off by Mandela. Please explain how different from the IRA.

Not signed off by Mandela but by Aboobaker Ismail and actually an attack on the HQ of the South African airforce that was badly conceived and carried out.

 

[BadFish]

Really. Well the ex director general of the BBC, Mark Thompson, admitted the left wing bias himself.
Iv'e tried to give a few links, not the DM, that actually states what the chap said.
BBC chief Mark Thompson admits - News - London Evening Standard

BBC bias is a national disgrace and a global menace - The Commentator

BBC Chief Admits Reports | Republic Report

Forum for former BBC staff - Thompson admits BBC had 'bias to left'

Take your pick....

He also said this in the same article

But he claimed there was now 'much less overt tribalism' among the current crop of young journalists, and said in recent times the corporation was a 'broader church'.

He claimed there was now an 'honourable tradition of journalists from the right' working for the corporation.

"It is a broader church. The BBC is not a campaigning organisation and can't be, and actually the truth is that sometimes our dispassionate flavour of broadcasting frustrates people who have got very, very strong views, because they want more red meat. Often that plays as bias. People think, 'Why can't they come out and say they are --------?' And that can play out on left and right."

When Carol Thatcher was sacked from BBC programme The One Show last year for likening a black tennis player to a "golliwog", friends claimed that the decision was motivated by hatred for her mother.

Her agent said at the time: "It is a vendetta against Carol because of who her mother is. There is a BBC agenda here," while Lord Tebbit said the sacking was "probably a bit of a way for the BBC to get back at Carol's mother".

This was a response on your last link.

All this just two days before he is seen entering Downing Street to have the Corporations plans for the budget statement vetted by numbers 10 & 11 hrrrm ?

Not exactly the actions of Caesar's Wife.

More importantly I wonder what he hopes to achieve by this act of contrition ? As clearly in making it he has crossed the Rubicon.

In making statements like this, which are clearly his own personal opinions, he invites the Politicians of whatever persuasion to undermine the the position of separation from the news and outside influence and dumb down the cutting edge of journalism. this threatens the BBC's independence and it's credibility with the Licence Payer.

What possible practical purpose can this have ?

Other than to placate those presently in power. Governments come and they go but the BBC mission remains unchanged and any concession the BBC makes to those in power or vying for it must weaken the Corporation's unique position within the media, an easy but dangerous concession to make.

 

[Questions]

The Church Street bombing was a car bomb attack on 20 May 1983 by Umkhonto we Sizwe, the military wing of the African National Congress, in the South African capital Pretoria. Signed off by Mandela. Please explain how different from the IRA.

Well other than the fact nearly all the mainland bombings of the IRA were directed at or seemed to be directed at civilians where is the Church Street bombing was aimed at a military target. Listen.... The ANC were wrong with Church Street. It was detonated early, it's own people were killed and I am not condoning it but the ANC were cornered and although it was supposedly in retaliation to assignations in Lesotho against ANC members I can't say hand on heart it was right, no.
But for the record it was almost certainly authorised by Ismail and Tambo anyway not Mandela.
If you want to start listing all atrocities during that period in S.A. then you had better deal with the whole argument or none at all.

 

[Soulman]

My best mate from school has been a director at the BBC for a number of years and has become far more right wing than he has been before in the 7 years since I last saw him. When I suggested to him he should be some kind of commie pinko because he worked at the BBC he laughed his tits off and called me a gullible idiot for believing the rhetoric.

"Mark Thompson, former Director-General of the BBC, admitted the organisation has been biased "towards the left". He said, "In the BBC I joined 30 years ago, there was, in much of current affairs, in terms of people's personal politics, which were quite vocal, a massive bias to the left"
Mark Thompson, Director-General (2004-2012).......Mark Thompson was replaced as Director-General on 17 September 2012.
So he has only been out of the loop for 6 months then.

So your best mate has seen a very quick change then.

 

[BadFish]

"Mark Thompson, former Director-General of the BBC, admitted the organisation has been biased "towards the left". He said, "In the BBC I joined 30 years ago, there was, in much of current affairs, in terms of people's personal politics, which were quite vocal, a massive bias to the left"
Mark Thompson, Director-General (2004-2012).......Mark Thompson was replaced as Director-General on 17 September 2012.
So he has only been out of the loop for 6 months then.

So your best mate has seen a very quick change then.

He also said this in the same article.

But he claimed there was now 'much less overt tribalism' among the current crop of young journalists, and said in recent times the corporation was a 'broader church'.

He claimed there was now an 'honourable tradition of journalists from the right' working for the corporation.
"It is a broader church. The BBC is not a campaigning organisation and can't be, and actually the truth is that sometimes our dispassionate flavour of broadcasting frustrates people who have got very, very strong views, because they want more red meat. Often that plays as bias. People think, 'Why can't they come out and say they are --------?' And that can play out on left and right."

His quote is clearly about the thatcher years and not more recent times (did you actually read the article or just enjoy the soundbite?). So seeing as both my mate and me were in our teens at the end of the thatcher years, his quote hardly has much bearing of his experiences.

I don't really think that it is so astounding to imagine that two people in a huge organisation like the BBC can have differing opinions about it.

 

[Max Paper]

The cat is asleep on my bed, my wife's at work, if it poo's in the house I'm a dead man

 

[Soulman]

He also said this in the same article.

But he claimed there was now 'much less overt tribalism' among the current crop of young journalists, and said in recent times the corporation was a 'broader church'.

He claimed there was now an 'honourable tradition of journalists from the right' working for the corporation.
"It is a broader church. The BBC is not a campaigning organisation and can't be, and actually the truth is that sometimes our dispassionate flavour of broadcasting frustrates people who have got very, very strong views, because they want more red meat. Often that plays as bias. People think, 'Why can't they come out and say they are --------?' And that can play out on left and right."

His quote is clearly about the thatcher years and not more recent times (did you actually read the article or just enjoy the soundbite?). So seeing as both my mate and me were in our teens at the end of the thatcher years, his quote hardly has much bearing of his experiences.

I don't really think that it is so astounding to imagine that two people in a huge organisation like the BBC can have differing opinions about it.

Of course i read the article. Again i say "Mark Thompson, former Director-General of the BBC, admitted the organisation has been biased "towards the left". He said, "In the BBC I JOINED 30 years ago, there was, in much of current affairs, in terms of people's personal politics, which were quite vocal, a MASSIVE bias to the left"
This man was with the BBC for 30 YEARS..... He was in charge for 8 YEARS....he has only been out of that position for 6 MONTHS....hardly time for much change eh.

 

[BadFish]

Of course i read the article. Again i say "Mark Thompson, former Director-General of the BBC, admitted the organisation has been biased "towards the left". He said, "In the BBC I JOINED 30 years ago, there was, in much of current affairs, in terms of people's personal politics, which were quite vocal, a MASSIVE bias to the left"
This man was with the BBC for 30 YEARS..... He was in charge for 8 YEARS....he has only been out of that position for 6 MONTHS....hardly time for much change eh.

He was talking about the thatchers years when he first joined the BBC, not about the whole time he was at the BBC.

He said

"In the BBC I joined 30 years ago there was, in much of current affairs, in terms of people's personal politics, which were quite vocal, a massive bias to the left.

"The organisation did struggle then with impartiality. And journalistically, staff were quite mystified by the early years of Thatcher."

In fact he said this about more recent times at the BBC

Mr Thompson, who joined the corporation in 1979 as a production trainee, insisted that such bias no longer existed. "Now it is a completely different generation. There is much less overt tribalism among the young journalists who work for the BBC.

"It is a broader church. The BBC is not a campaigning organisation and can't be, and actually the truth is that sometimes our dispassionate flavour of broadcasting frustrates people who have got very, very strong views, because they want more red meat. Often that plays as bias. People think, 'Why can't they come out and say they are --------?' And that can play out on left and right."

BBC was biased against Thatcher, admits Mark Thompson - Telegraph

So he suggests that there was bias in the thatcher years but there was/is none in more recent times/currently.

 

[Soulman]

He was talking about the thatchers years when he first joined the BBC, not about the whole time he was at the BBC.

In fact he said this about more recent times at the BBC

"The organisation did struggle then with impartiality. And journalistically, staff were quite mystified by the early years of Thatcher."

Mr Thompson, who joined the corporation in 1979 as a production trainee, insisted that such bias no longer existed. "Now it is a completely different generation. There is much less overt tribalism among the young journalists who work for the BBC.

"It is a broader church. The BBC is not a campaigning organisation and can't be, and actually the truth is that sometimes our dispassionate flavour of broadcasting frustrates people who have got very, very strong views, because they want more red meat. Often that plays as bias. People think, 'Why can't they come out and say they are --------?' And that can play out on left and right."

BBC was biased against Thatcher, admits Mark Thompson - Telegraph

So he suggests that there was bias in the thatcher years but there is/was none in more recent times/currently.

He was not just talking about "the Thatcher years, when he first joined the BBC".......otherwise "The BBC has long been accused of being institutionally biased towards the Left, and an internal report FROM 2007 said it had to make greater efforts to avoid liberal bias".......how many years later was this internal report after the Thatcher years?.......i would say about 28 years after he joined, and about 3 years AFTER he was made DG eh.

 

[BadFish]

He was not just talking about "the Thatcher years, when he first joined the BBC".......otherwise "The BBC has long been accused of being institutionally biased towards the Left, and an internal report FROM 2007 said it had to make greater efforts to avoid liberal bias".......how many years later was this internal report after the Thatcher years?.......i would say about 28 years after he joined, and about 3 years AFTER he was made DG eh.

You know he didn't say this, right?

"The BBC has long been accused of being institutionally biased towards the Left, and an internal report FROM 2007 said it had to make greater efforts to avoid liberal bias"

He was talking about the thatcher years, you have posted the quote three times where he talks about the thatch years! You have not posted any quote from him talking about any other time. I have and they say that there is no left wing bias.

I have found no other quotes from him that talk about bias at the BBC aside from during the thatcher years. So i can only assume that he was only talking about the thatcher years. Especially as he goes on to say that things have been much different since then.

I would say the internal report that the journalist has name checked (but not cited) is a different argument.

One I cannot get into now as I am off out.

 

[Soulman]

You know he didn't say this, right?


I have found no quotes from him that talk about bias at the BBC aside from during the thatcher years. So i can only assume that he was only talking about the thatcher years. Especially as he goes on to say that things have been much different since then.

I would say the internal report that the journalist has name checked (but not cited) is a different argument.

One I cannot get into now as I am off out.

Enjoy your evening.......

 

[BadFish]

Enjoy your evening.......

I will enjoy my morning

 

[Soulman]

I will enjoy my morning

Ah.... i see......your out clubbing eh.......(joke)

 

[BadFish]

Ah.... i see......your out clubbing eh.......(joke)

My clubbing days are long gone!!

Nice talking to ya SM.

 

[Soulman]

My clubbing days are long gone!!

Nice talking to ya SM.

Yep, we differ, but we debate........til the next time eh.......right on

 

[BadFish]

Yep, we differ, but we debate.......

...... And then we decide i was right.