Do you think the JOCKS will vote YES ?

[dazzer6666]

I've been quite the reverse. I've been engaged by the whole thing. The 3 main Westminster parties all coming together to campaign with one voice has been a bit of a revelation really. It's really sparked a meaningful debate I've felt about what the UK is, and where it might go. We've been plodding along, government after government, blaming the other for the ills the current is facing, whereas this debate has gone well beyond party politics (mostly) into something much deeper, and questioning the very notion of what governance is all about.

Politically we might look back on this whole thing as one of the really big milestones in the history of our Union regardless of the outcome - I hope it's a watershed moment whether Scotland remains or goes. To get to this point and for a democratic process to be this close shows something has been going wrong and it needs to be put right. This really is a significant moment not just for Scotland, but for all of us. The future of the UK is on a very different path already from that it was on 12 months ago Yes or No.

With you on this. Whole thing has been fascinating (regardless of my own views and concerns on the outcome). Some great debates, strong arguments on both sides and it's engaged so many people on so many levels (they are talking about a 90%+ turn out). I do have some fears about the potential aftermath though. Expecting rent-a-mob to be out on Sauchiehaul Street tonight.

 

[Notters]

With you on this. Whole thing has been fascinating (regardless of my own views and concerns on the outcome). Some great debates, strong arguments on both sides and it's engaged so many people on so many levels (they are talking about a 90%+ turn out). I do have some fears about the potential aftermath though. Expecting rent-a-mob to be out on Sauchiehaul Street tonight.

Whilst I agree with the above, I've not really heard any good arguments for OR against independence! It's all so hypothetical, with both campaigns claiming more jobs, a stronger economy, better NHS, etc. and very little to back any of it up with. Which ultimately means it comes down to gut feeling, which may or may not be a good thing to base your vote on. As a result, I think a lot of the Yes votes will purely be due to "the grass is always greener on the other side", particularly with young voters.

 

[Jim D]

With you on this. Whole thing has been fascinating (regardless of my own views and concerns on the outcome). Some great debates, strong arguments on both sides and it's engaged so many people on so many levels (they are talking about a 90%+ turn out). I do have some fears about the potential aftermath though. Expecting rent-a-mob to be out on Sauchiehaul Street tonight.

They've apparently allowed the pubs to stay open all night so there'll be quite a few out for a scrap no doubt.

 

[Notters]

I see Andy Murray has just come out in support of Yes too. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...mpaign-in-eleventh-hour-decision-9739784.html

He sights the negative aspects of the No campaign. Never mind the violence an intimidation of the Yes campaign, eh?

 

[BigGully]

I see Andy Murray has just come out in support of Yes too. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...mpaign-in-eleventh-hour-decision-9739784.html

He sights the negative aspects of the No campaign. Never mind the violence an intimidation of the Yes campaign, eh?

I am no fan of Murray, but why shouldn't he be a proud Scot, who feels his country can self govern and make a good fist of it.

His sponsors might be less pleased, he has made his money to some extent on the back of him being British and the M&S fraternity here in England actually believing he was somehow English.

For me there are real parallels to our relationship with Europe and the Europhiles telling us that we are somehow 'little Englanders' to question the political allegiance with Europe, so good on them I say.

 

[Goldstone1976]

I see Andy Murray has just come out in support of Yes too. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...mpaign-in-eleventh-hour-decision-9739784.html

He sights the negative aspects of the No campaign. Never mind the violence an intimidation of the Yes campaign, eh?

Was there ever really any doubt about what he thought? I believe the timing of his "coming out" is deliberate and has been orchestrated in conjunction with the "yes" campaign. He is, of course, entitled to his opinion and also entitled to voice it. However, imo, it's a bit shabby pretending to be apolitical when you're not.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

I hope they get independance. NO campaign made it sound like nobody would be able to enter or leave Scotland anymore. Let's not forget all the z-list celebrities who kept popping up telling everyone what to do, annoying. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity for Scotland. All these promises Westminster have made, I doubt anything will change for the average Scot. Good luck to them I say. They can still use the pound.

 

[Captain Sensible]

I see Andy Murray has just come out in support of Yes too. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...mpaign-in-eleventh-hour-decision-9739784.html

He sights the negative aspects of the No campaign. Never mind the violence an intimidation of the Yes campaign, eh?

He's talking utter rubbish, a No campaign can hardly be positive about the yes campaign. They are being positive on devolving more powers (something im not in favour of unless there is a barring of Scottish MP's voting on English only matters), what does he expect. No can be a positive thing if its No to something negative or bad. Personally i hope they sod off asap.

 

[The Birdman]

Last time I stick up for Andy Murray !

 

[surrey jim]

I am no fan of Murray, but why shouldn't he be a proud Scot, who feels his country can self govern and make a good fist of it.

His sponsors might be less pleased, he has made his money to some extent on the back of him being British and the M&S fraternity here in England actually believing he was somehow English.

For me there are real parallels to our relationship with Europe and the Europhiles telling us that we are somehow 'little Englanders' to question the political allegiance with Europe, so good on them I say.

The person who came out and said at the world cup he would support anyone but England.

 

[Captain Sensible]

I hope they get independance. NO campaign made it sound like nobody would be able to enter or leave Scotland anymore. Let's not forget all the z-list celebrities who kept popping up telling everyone what to do, annoying. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity for Scotland. All these promises Westminster have made, I doubt anything will change for the average Scot. Good luck to them I say. They can still use the pound.

Until 2016

 

[Bold Seagull]

something im not in favour of unless there is a barring of Scottish MP's voting on English only matters

Devolved powers would be to a different parliament. The Scottish MP's in Westminster wouldn't be voting on the powers being given to Holyrood, they would still be members of the UK parliament.

Also, there is no governance of English only matters - what do you mean by this? If Scotland had devolved powers, those left to Westminster would still be England, Wales and Northern Ireland - there is no separate governance of England.

 

[Captain Sensible]

Devolved powers would be to a different parliament. The Scottish MP's in Westminster wouldn't be voting on the powers being given to Holyrood, they would still be members of the UK parliament.

Also, there is no governance of English only matters - what do you mean by this? If Scotland had devolved powers, those left to Westminster would still be England, Wales and Northern Ireland - there is no separate governance of England.

Constitutionally this would have to change. Its been reiterated this week by many politicians. Should more powers be given to the Scottish parliament after a no vote, then matters which concern England only or England and Wales only, would be voted on my Members that are within that province. So for example, laws which are currently delt with by Scotland, when those same issues get discussed regarding England only Mp's would be eligible that hold a constituency is located within that province.

 

[Greyrun]

Surprised the EU hasn't come out with an unequivocal statement about where Scotland stands if theirs a yes vote, in fact the whole debate seems to be clouded in mystery.Sadly if their is a NO vote it won't stop the scots whinging it seems to be part of their dna, easier to blame the southern English than sorting it out yourself.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Good luck to them I say. They can still use the pound.

Are you Mark Carney!?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Constitutionally this would have to change. Its been reiterated this week by many politicians. Should more powers be given to the Scottish parliament after a no vote, then matters which concern England only or England and Wales only, would be voted on my Members that are within that province. So for example, laws which are currently delt with by Scotland, when those same issues get discussed regarding England only Mp's would be eligible that hold a constituency is located within that province.

There is certainly a lot of detail to discuss following the result. However, Scotland already has it's own legal system and sets many of it's own laws. Legislation is passed through from both the UK and European parliaments. So what you're saying is that if Scotland has power over taxation from it's own parliament, then matters in the house of commons regarding tax couldn't be voted on by Scottish members? How on earth could that work? That would mean any government forming a majority with Scottish MP's may only have a majority on certain issues - I can't see how that can work.

If the UK remains the UK, then regardless of the powers are devolved, every MP in the House of Commons has to have the same voting rights as every other. I can't see how you could label certain MP's having more voting rights than others.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Surprised the EU hasn't come out with an unequivocal statement about where Scotland stands if theirs a yes vote, in fact the whole debate seems to be clouded in mystery.Sadly if their is a NO vote it won't stop the scots whinging it seems to be part of their dna, easier to blame the southern English than sorting it out yourself.

It will be an incredibly complex set of negotiations, agreements, treaties and such which is why you can't really state the detail, just the democratic will.

Do they not blame the Northern English then? Just the South!?

 

[Biscuit]

Surprised the EU hasn't come out with an unequivocal statement about where Scotland stands if theirs a yes vote, in fact the whole debate seems to be clouded in mystery.Sadly if their is a NO vote it won't stop the scots whinging it seems to be part of their dna, easier to blame the southern English than sorting it out yourself.

I think they're keeping their cards close to their chest, sending an open invite to Scotland to join up could be seen as a major win for other separatists throughout Europe,

 

[Notters]

It will be an incredibly complex set of negotiations, agreements, treaties and such which is why you can't really state the detail, just the democratic will.

Do they not blame the Northern English then? Just the South!?

No they don't. I've seen it many times on the internet and the news in the last couple of weeks saying "we don't want to be ruled by the south of England", "it's those southern tories that are the problem", etc. I don't think they realise quite how much they're opening themselves up to criticism from the more remote parts of Scotland. Northern Shetland is 350 miles from Edinburgh and Lewis/Harris over 200 miles (as the crow flies). Whereas the Scottish borders are circa 270 miles from London, but with much better connections. Not that the location of London is relevant anyway. I can't imagine they'd feel any different if Manchester or Newcastle were the capital!

 

[Captain Sensible]

There is certainly a lot of detail to discuss following the result. However, Scotland already has it's own legal system and sets many of it's own laws. Legislation is passed through from both the UK and European parliaments. So what you're saying is that if Scotland has power over taxation from it's own parliament, then matters in the house of commons regarding tax couldn't be voted on by Scottish members? How on earth could that work? That would mean any government forming a majority with Scottish MP's may only have a majority on certain issues - I can't see how that can work.

If the UK remains the UK, then regardless of the powers are devolved, every MP in the House of Commons has to have the same voting rights as every other. I can't see how you could label certain MP's having more voting rights than others.

That is exactly how it would work. Delvoluted powers, devoluted MP's.
We are moving towards a more Federal system regardless of the outcome.