[Albion] Do Brighton have a bigger problem than they realise? (Four Four Two article)

[Cheshire Cat]

We are exactly where we deserve to be, and slightly above where we will be soon.

 

[Stat Brother]

Well, when we poached Potter from Swansea had you heard of Steve Cooper? Stuck a fiver on him as their next manager? Seen him tipped on their board to take over? Or, like the majority of fans, were you a bit "Steve WHO"?

And yet, from the article.....

And it is tempting to wonder if, while Brighton are an evolving team, they nonetheless have the characteristics of Potter’s previous side. In some respects, he did an excellent job with Swansea, taking the wreckage of a relegated team, playing fine football and developing young talent. Yet his side came 10th with Oli McBurnie and Daniel James; a year later and after selling each, Steve Cooper’s side finished sixth.

There is only a 5 point & +6 goal differential between those two Swansea seasons.
With identical wins, Cooper's team obviously drawing more than Potter's

Cooper's season points haul would have been 8th in Potter's season, but as they say that's without James and McBurnie.


So far this season Swansea really have their pooh together, the Albion hasn't.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Another negative thread, was it really needed?
We are just 2 points behind tracker. To the the half empty guys, perhaps you need to reset your expectation this season to survival and not top ten, this is still work in progress.

You will feel so much better for it.

it has been work in progress for over 2 years, except it isn't working. My expectations were never very high this season, but on present form to finish fourth from bottom would be a bonus.

We can't defend leads and we can barely score.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

All those who keep saying we're a striker short of a great team, are ignoring the fact that the stats show we have scored as many goals in 15 games as previous seasons. We have conceded more (22) which is why we aren't winning games.

Basically, every other team knows if they can get a free kick or a corner against us, they will almost certainly score a goal.

https://www.northstandchat.com/show...14-games-Albion-s-four-Premier-League-seasons

 

[Bognor Seagull]

As others have said you can’t really argue with the article.

Potter is a decent coach, would make a good number 2. As a Manager -

It’s not going to end well, either for him or the club who will get relegated.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Good article. Good analysis of where we are. And, more importantly, where we're not

 

[Swansman]

Yet yesterday, according to you, we also needed a specialist defensive coach to improve our defending of set pieces?

The article makes reference to something I've pointed out before, Potter's less than stellar results with Swansea when they had James and McBurnie. Apparently Swansea also had a problem with set pieces?

Ultimately, Potter's recruitment man came with him to join our recruitment team. Shouldn't they be much more forceful in getting the last couple of pieces of the jigsaw in, if that is all it is?

The point is shit as Ive told you before.

Who were Dan James and McBurnie when Potter arrived? Just like Rodon, Roberts, Grimes and most of the others: nobodys, but you make it sound like he inherited this super team. And further - who are they without him? They are not exactly killing it in the PL...

Coopers squad is a lot better. They have more than one player for every position. They have a good goalkeeper. They have Andre Ayew, who is their Grealish in terms of importance. Potter had none of that luxuary, just a bunch of complete unknowns (like James and McBurnie) coupled with a few injury prone older players that the club wanted to get rid of.

Blaming Kyle Macauley for the lack of the "final jigsaw" is also quite funny when Brighton got a big recruitment team with a collective responsibility for signings. Its not exactly easy getting those "last couple of pieces" in - just look at fecking Manchester City who couldnt find a decent striker and now have tried about ten different players in that role in the absence of Aguero. The money involved to make a signing requires the player to either a) surely be good enough or b) possible to get rid off, or you easily get stuck in bad situations - like the one with Newcastle and Joelinton. As Potter said this summer "signing a player is kind of easy, getting rid of them is much harder". Money in the PL might seem endless. Theyre not. Tony Bloom might seem financially invicible. He isnt.

 

[Farehamseagull]

One of the better neutral articles I've seen written about us. I am on the much more positive side of it though, I'm a strong Potter believer and feel the results will come. I think to get rid of Potter would be a massive mistake whether we do go down or not (which I don't think we will).

To get these results though I do feel we have to invest in another striker in January. I was pleased overall with our summer transfer business but there's no doubt we took a big risk not buying a striker. Hopefully the lack of spending in the summer might mean we have funds to buy one next month.

If we do get a better striker able to take some more of the chances we create and make us more of a threat in the opposition box, I do also think we will see fewer of the individual mistakes we've seen from the defence as there will be less pressure on them. Hopefully Moder might add some more goals from midfield too as well as maybe Tau offering something different. Maybe we do also need to look at buying another keeper as there is going to be a lot of pressure on Sanchez suddenly for one so inexperienced.

I think this January window is massive for us and could make or break the season.

 

[Guinness Boy]

The point is shit as Ive told you before.

Who were Dan James and McBurnie when Potter arrived? Just like Rodon, Roberts, Grimes and most of the others: nobodys, but you make it sound like he inherited this super team. And further - who are they without him? They are not exactly killing it in the PL...

James, McBurnie, Rodon and Celina weren't exactly dragged out of the local pub.

Coopers squad is a lot better. They have more than one player for every position.

Potter's squad here is a lot better than Hughton's. And he seems to have two positions for every player.

Blaming Kyle Macauley for the lack of the "final jigsaw" is also quite funny when Brighton got a big recruitment team with a collective responsibility for signings.

I agree. I think adding him has made "too many cooks". Who has the last say on a player? Why was Veltman apparently a piece in the jigsaw and then Welbeck brought in as a panic measure after the window slammed shut?

Its not exactly easy getting those "last couple of pieces" in

True but should we then not cut our playing cloth accordingly?

Tony Bloom might seem financially invicible. He isnt.

Don't insult me Swanny. You've been here two minutes. I remember when Bloom took over at a wet athletics stadium.

 

[GT49er]

Is it even pretty anymore? I've started finding it predictable, slow and frustrating of late. Not sure because of lack of confidence, options, or how teams set up against us knowing we struggle to break teams down (probably a mix of all three), but I'm certainly not finding it pretty overall at the moment

Watching on the telebox yesterday, I couldn't believe how slowly we passed the ball around, gently rolling it from player to player. Surely the point of playing possession football is to move the opposition around and pull them out of shape? To do that, you need to move the ball much faster - moving it as slowly as we do gives the other team all the time in the world to keep us covered.
To be effective the ball needs to be pinged around, especially in the final third, not gently rolled.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Very good article. Hundreds of our supporters could have penned it.

What are you saying about the other tens of thousands?

 

[vagabond]

Another negative thread, was it really needed?
We are just 2 points behind tracker. To the the half empty guys, perhaps you need to reset your expectation this season to survival and not top ten, this is still work in progress.

You will feel so much better for it.

Exactly [emoji106]

 

[Barham's tash]

If the board or more specifically TB feels the same then he will spend in January.

The fact we only spent £13.4m is well documented so allowing for the ‘lost’ £20m from home games this season and the fact in previous seasons we have spent £60-70m suggests there is something in the tank and for me I now feel this is the time for once to spend it all in one place.

We can make do with slightly sub par replacements in the wing back slots IMO but only
If we start taking the chances we’re creating and that means spending big on a striker.

 

[vagabond]

One of the better neutral articles I've seen written about us. I am on the much more positive side of it though, I'm a strong Potter believer and feel the results will come. I think to get rid of Potter would be a massive mistake whether we do go down or not (which I don't think we will).

That’s where I’m at (still). I think the results will come, but no mistake, the pressure at this level with the money on the line is ridiculous, so the longer we go without getting the odd win puts the manager completely in the spotlight.

I just see so many positives with Potter since he’s taken over. We’ve gone from a backs to the wall, lucky to get one shot away team, lumping it to Murray, to a slick passing team that dominates possession against most teams (who have a far larger budget). And I’m totally 100% on board with Tony’s, Dan’s, and GP’s philosophy in terms of blooding young players. Lamptey, Connolly, Alzate, White, Molumby, Sanchez..

I think we’re now starting to see real improvements to existing players, which is surely a sign of good coaching. Solly has gone to another level this season and is reborn is his new role. Ditto Biss, who was lucky to get a run of games under Hughton (kept out by Dale... I remember having some arguments with folk on that one).

I’m genuinely perplexed how so many here can’t see the above (granted, not the majority.. but the dogs abuse I’ve seen directed at Potter here on match days from some “established” NSC members is laughably disgusting).

The club is doing everything right, we just need a few more points so we can breathe a little easier as we evolve.

I still do not think we will go down. We have enough about us to get points versus anyone and we’ll survive. Again though, we have to improve the Center forward options. This is not news to anyone, and is my biggest criticism of the club.

 

[Stat Brother]

If the board or more specifically TB feels the same then he will spend in January.

The fact we only spent £13.4m is well documented so allowing for the ‘lost’ £20m from home games this season and the fact in previous seasons we have spent £60-70m suggests there is something in the tank and for me I now feel this is the time for once to spend it all in one place.

We can make do with slightly sub par replacements in the wing back slots IMO but only
If we start taking the chances we’re creating and that means spending big on a striker.

What's in the tank is Molder (sp) & Tau.

With the straw clutches that are Andone & Izquierdo.


Money doesn't really come into it.

 

[Machiavelli]

The essence of this article, and others, is only what most Albion fans have been saying for 3 seasons now.

We need a prodigious goal scorer, Murray filled the gap in our first PL season, not so much in our second season and we just haven’t replaced him, until we do, Tony Blooms dreams of a top 10 finish,are just that,Dreams.

So much of football is about confidence, we have zero confidence at the moment. A good win against anyone would boost this, on the other hand, keep not winning games we should win and confidence will remain rock bottom, and results will reflect this.

Spot on, in all respects.
We do need to sort out defending set plays too, although precisely how to do that is not immediately obvious.

 

[Icy Gull]

Watching on the telebox yesterday, I couldn't believe how slowly we passed the ball around, gently rolling it from player to player. Surely the point of playing possession football is to move the opposition around and pull them out of shape? To do that, you need to move the ball much faster - moving it as slowly as we do gives the other team all the time in the world to keep us covered.
To be effective the ball needs to be pinged around, especially in the final third, not gently rolled.

Very true, the urgency just isn’t there at the moment. Giving the opposition time to get back when we break is a massive failing in how we are currently playing. Sure try and pick your way through when the opposition are set up but to lazily pass sideways and backwards when we should be hitting teams on the break is so frustrating to watch.

 

[Jim in the West]

I think the point with the "we need a top striker" argument is that all teams need a top striker but teams like ours don't have the budget or often the opportunity to get one. Therefore you have to grind out wins, be solid and make the most of what you've got. A top striker is not a panacea. Potter would no doubt like one but, unlike Hughton, he has got Welbeck, Lallana, Lamptey, White, Trossard and Maupay at his disposal yet for all the alleged improvements we're still knocking around the relegation zone.

On paper I think these are all improvements. But Welbeck and Lallana were free transfers, White came through the youth set-up, Lamptey cost £2m and (like White) has only played a handful of EPL matches. We SHOULD be getting more out of Trossard and Maupay. I think one of our issues is that we're a young side - still very much work-in-progress. The evolution from the Hughton era to Potter isn't just about the manager, or the style of play - it's about the whole way the club is run. The fact that we had Sanchez, White and Alzate on the pitch was great to see - added to Dunk and March. We're developing our own players, and the speed that some of them have come through in the past 18 months is great to see.

 

[Swansman]

James, McBurnie, Rodon and Celina weren't exactly dragged out of the local pub.



Potter's squad here is a lot better than Hughton's. And he seems to have two positions for every player.



I agree. I think adding him has made "too many cooks". Who has the last say on a player? Why was Veltman apparently a piece in the jigsaw and then Welbeck brought in as a panic measure after the window slammed shut?




True but should we then not cut our playing cloth accordingly?

Don't insult me Swanny. You've been here two minutes. I remember when Bloom took over at a wet athletics stadium.

1. No they were not dragged out of a local pub. But a decent comparison with Brighton equivalents would be Ayo Tanimowo, Peter Gwargis and Viktor Gyökeres. If someone came around and - over a year - turned them into players ending up in Tottenham, Manchester United and... well, a newly promoted PL side, would your first thougt be "impressive to turn those guys into that level" or would it be "dohhh youre shite if you cant get better than top 10 with Peter Gwargis and Viktor Gyökeres in your side!". Tony Bloom obviously was in the first category and found it impressive.

2. Potters squad is in a lot of senses probably better than Hughtons squad yes. And weaker in a couple of ways - experience is not to be underestimated; Dale Stephens have probably been in the situation where the team is up with one goal and 15 minutes to go about a hundred times while its the fifth or sixth time for Alzate and that experience plays a part. But I agree, for the most part stronger without being particularly strong, really shows what a great job CH did. But theres more to the game than results, maybe not to you and some others, but obviously to those running the club.


3. Signings are probably collective decisions. The final say is probably shared by a couple of people: without knowing exactly, I would imagine that TB, DA and GP all have to say yes if a signing should happen and that they all could veto a signing as well. As for "too many cooks" its difficult to know without working at the club. Some teams have over a 100 people working with recruitment so adding or subtracting Macauley should realistically not do a lot of difference, but then again - depends on how the work is divided.

4. As for "cutting our cloths", its pretty much whats been done. TB said last year he cant/wont keep pouring money into the club forever. The academy needs to start to produce and without knowing the details Im going to assume that this rather expensive and modern academy is producing more of the GP-footy kind of players and less of the Neil Warnock-footy kind of players. Having Ben White training to be a ball playing defender for x years only to tell him "and now, you are going to do like Shane Duffy" or telling Alzate to be like Vinnie Jones is not clothes cutting as it either demands the players to do things they can not do, turning them into shit, or you need to spend a lot of money to get that Vinnie Jones/Duncan Ferguson/whatever.

You might think this Brighton squad is not capable of playing the way GP wants but it would be even more inept trying to play like Burnley.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Watching on the telebox yesterday, I couldn't believe how slowly we passed the ball around, gently rolling it from player to player. Surely the point of playing possession football is to move the opposition around and pull them out of shape? To do that, you need to move the ball much faster - moving it as slowly as we do gives the other team all the time in the world to keep us covered.
To be effective the ball needs to be pinged around, especially in the final third, not gently rolled.

Yep, i found it super frustrating. I am assume its because we’re shot of confidence. Moyes almost called it, sit out the first half and watch us run out of ideas then come at us in the second.