[Albion] Deluded Leeds (an EFL club) fans

[HeadLiner]

Serious question for any Leeds fans on this forum.

Where are the smart fans?

I know they must exist. I'd love to converse with them.

Bonus question: How does your loan system operate?

Ha, the smart ones are all wise enough to stay away.

Judging by most comments on here, I'd seriously doubt you wish, or are able to, converse with anyone. You just wish to point score and rip the piss. Which is fine, but it ain't conversation.

I'll take the bonus question. In two years, Bielsa has not loaned out any player who has a future at the club as he considers the coaching they get at Leeds is better than they would get elsewhere, and hence their development is better suited to staying. Players we don't want have been loaned to reduce the wage bill and offer perm. transfer options. However, after two years of influence it is clear that some of our kids now need some regular game time at a higher level, so this year some will be loaned. Huddersfield have taken our U23 coach as 1st team manager, so some may end up there. Barnsley impressed with their style of play and management, and some may end up there.

I know it's a loaded question as you're leading up the path as to why Leeds don't understand Brighton loan their players to improve them for your first team. Of course Leeds understand but guess what, a market exists in football to make offers for players you like and who would like to join your club, hence our Ben White offers. Loaning players will of course raise their profile and make such offers more likely to be received. Some will bring transfer funds into the club and others will not. I'm as equally intriqued to know why Brighton fans don't understand that a player who has been given regular football, may wish to stay with that club . . . you are taking this too personally as a club rejection when it's simply a young kid feeling wanted. Plenty of comparable examples around.

 

[HeadLiner]

Just been having fun on Twitter with a few of them.

I've come to the conclusion that the majority of Leeds fans are . . . just so stupid. . . . really, really thick . . .

It's quite stunning.

You're that clever but . . . haven't yet made the connection.

The irony.

 

[albionalex]

I'd very much doubt the team will be relegated; in fact i'd bet all my personal assets on it.

Rather than losing all of your assets, how about a £10 donation to Albion In The Community?

 

[SimpKingpin]

Ha, the smart ones are all wise enough to stay off here.

Judging by most comments on here, I'd seriously doubt you wish, or are able to, converse with anyone. You just wish to point score and rip the piss. Which is fine, but it ain't conversation.

I'll take the bonus question. In two years, Bielsa has not loaned out any player who has a future at the club as he considers the coaching they get at Leeds is better than they would get elsewhere, and hence their development is better suited to staying. Players we don't want have been loaned to reduce the wage bill and offer perm. transfer options. However, after two years of influence it is clear that some of our kids now need some regular game time at a higher level, so this year some will be loaned. Huddersfield have taken our U23 coach as 1st team manager, so some may end up there. Barnsley impressed with their style of play and management, and some may end up there.

I know it's a loaded question as you're leading up the path as to why Leeds don't understand Brighton loan their players to improve them for your first team. Of course Leeds understand but guess what, a market exists in football to make offers for players you like and who would like to join your club, hence our Ben White offers. Loaning players will of course raise their profile and make such offers more likely to be received. Some will bring transfer funds into the club and others will not. I'm as equally intriqued to know why Brighton fans don't understand that a player who has been given regular football, may wish to stay with that club . . . you are taking this too personally as a club rejection when it's simply a young kid feeling wanted.

That actually explains the disconnect on the loan system.
Well now that you're in the Premier League and your young lads want game time, I hope you get the good ones back without fuss.

Re. Ben White. Not personal at all. All business.
Don't want to strengthen you as a team literally or psychologically. We'll always need three teams to finish below us.
Want to see if Ben can make the step up now that he's proved himself at Newport (L2), then Peterborough (L1), then Leeds (C), and we've invested 6 years in him.

 

[nickjhs]

[MENTION=41575]SimpKingpin[/MENTION] Great summation of the situation, maybe this should be put as a sticky at the start of the thread. Case closed

 

[wellquickwoody]

Ha, the smart ones are all wise enough to stay away.

Judging by most comments on here, I'd seriously doubt you wish, or are able to, converse with anyone. You just wish to point score and rip the piss. Which is fine, but it ain't conversation.

I'll take the bonus question. In two years, Bielsa has not loaned out any player who has a future at the club as he considers the coaching they get at Leeds is better than they would get elsewhere, and hence their development is better suited to staying. Players we don't want have been loaned to reduce the wage bill and offer perm. transfer options. However, after two years of influence it is clear that some of our kids now need some regular game time at a higher level, so this year some will be loaned. Huddersfield have taken our U23 coach as 1st team manager, so some may end up there. Barnsley impressed with their style of play and management, and some may end up there.

I know it's a loaded question as you're leading up the path as to why Leeds don't understand Brighton loan their players to improve them for your first team. Of course Leeds understand but guess what, a market exists in football to make offers for players you like and who would like to join your club, hence our Ben White offers. Loaning players will of course raise their profile and make such offers more likely to be received. Some will bring transfer funds into the club and others will not. I'm as equally intriqued to know why Brighton fans don't understand that a player who has been given regular football, may wish to stay with that club . . . you are taking this too personally as a club rejection when it's simply a young kid feeling wanted. Plenty of comparable examples around.

I completely understand that the lad has enjoyed playing to big crowds and being feited by all and sundry. He also has an agent tapping him on the shoulder saying "Think about the money". When you are 23 it all seems so simple does it not?

But it eeeezz complicated now. You, or someone else needs to meet our valuation as we do not want, or need, to sell. As for the lad, he has two years left on his contract. He could gamble and refuse to sign a new one with us and try to force our chairmans hand into selling him before his value diminishes. But.....we have the option of another year to add to his contract. Meaning he could very easily languish in the reserves for two years before we even think about selling him, that is a lot of wages to lose. More importantly, when you are 23 and used to getting the fans adulation regularly and getting your own way, 2 or 3 years is a fxxking awfully long time to wait and sulk. Much better to keep the fun going by playing and earning better money before looking to do the offski in a year or two.

Either way, he is gonna need cahunas the size of the moon if he wants to play poker with Mr Bloom!

 

[HeadLiner]

Rather than losing all of your assets, how about a £10 donation to Albion In The Community?

Ha, yeah I could do that.

If you are staking double to the same cause if we do.

 

[HeadLiner]

I completely understand that the lad has enjoyed playing to big crowds and being feited by all and sundry. He also has an agent tapping him on the shoulder saying "Think about the money". When you are 23 it all seems so simple does it not?

But it eeeezz complicated now. You, or someone else needs to meet our valuation as we do not want, or need, to sell. As for the lad, he has two years left on his contract. He could gamble and refuse to sign a new one with us and try to force our chairmans hand into selling him before his value diminishes. But.....we have the option of another year to add to his contract. Meaning he could very easily languish in the reserves for two years before we even think about selling him, that is a lot of wages to lose. More importantly, when you are 23 and used to getting the fans adulation regularly and getting your own way, 2 or 3 years is a fxxking awfully long time to wait and sulk. Much better to keep the fun going by playing and earning better money before looking to do the offski in a year or two.

Either way, he is gonna need cahunas the size of the moon if he wants to play poker with Mr Bloom!

Yeah, messy.

Thought his agent has advised him poorly . . . isn't he their only client on the books?. The situation that has arisen could see him at Brighton until the age of 26 without making that breakthrough. As we have seen with Chelsea, plenty of no-hopers languishing in their gutter whose career depends on yet another loan, and having seen Blackman, Baker and Brown up close, not sure if they have the motivation to step up any longer.

Talking of Chelsea, and as an aside, met Jamal Blackman's (the Chelsea keeper) brother recently to be told he earns 30K a week. Seven season and seven loans. Frustrated he is at how his career has not progressed and almost 27 years old. Enjoys his cars and the ladies though, and not getting close to that money in the Championship. Modern football.

So back to White. He has to play regularly this season to keep his career progressing. If I were him, I'd reject all contract offers. You should get him out in such circumstances; it's not healthy for the club. We got Wood out and we got Taylor out (both to Burnley) when they asked to leave. Both were under contract and we got 'fair' money.

Let's assume, Bloom stands his ground. Doubt White will struggle on his 5-10K weekly salary. If i'm him, I give it a go for a year and then simply look to move then. You'd be more inclined to accept a deal at that point. I'm repeatedly told Bloom likes a gamble, well that's a fair one to take with White's value next summer. If he is a regular, and he has progressed as much as he has done in the last year, you will indeed be selling to a top 4 club for 60million. If he isn't or hasn't, you'll be taking our 10million bid. In those circumstances, 25million up front plus 5million add on's, plus a 20% sell on clause doesn't look too bad.

 

[HeadLiner]

That actually explains the disconnect on the loan system.

Well now that you're in the Premier League and your young lads want game time, I hope you get the good ones back without fuss.

Now, here is where you lose me, may be where we have a communication problem and why we don't understand each other.

Trading players is all part of the process. Hope any of our loaned players do fantastically well and hope there are big money offers for all of them. It would be a recognition of our good scouting and upbringing. That is then a challenge for my club. The players who see a future with LUFC will stay and those who don't, or who don't quite fit our profile, get sold. Great! Our youth policy is bearing fruit.

Of course you'll say, but how about the ones you want to keep, but who don't want to stay.

This is just where we have a disconnect with your fanbase (and maybe that is to do with status and how we perceive our own clubs) . . . so let me state it clearly . . . If you don't want to stay, get the f*** out of my club. Side before self, it's a LUFC mantra.

So in case the connection is not clear, re: Ben White. He wants to be at Leeds and we don't understand why you'd want to keep him. Take the money and laugh.

 

[BadFish]

Yeah, messy.

Thought his agent has advised him poorly . . . isn't he their only client on the books?. The situation that has arisen could see him at Brighton until the age of 26 without making that breakthrough. As we have seen with Chelsea, plenty of no-hopers languishing in their gutter whose career depends on yet another loan, and having seen Blackman, Baker and Brown up close, not sure if they have the motivation to step up any longer.

Talking of Chelsea, and as an aside, met Jamal Blackman's (the Chelsea keeper) brother recently to be told he earns 30K a week. Seven season and seven loans. Frustrated he is at how his career has not progressed and almost 27 years old. Enjoys his cars and the ladies though, and not getting close to that money in the Championship. Modern football.

So back to White. He has to play regularly this season to keep his career progressing. If I were him, I'd reject all contract offers. You should get him out in such circumstances; it's not healthy for the club. We got Wood out and we got Taylor out (both to Burnley) when they asked to leave. Both were under contract and we got 'fair' money.

Let's assume, Bloom stands his ground. Doubt White will struggle on his 5-10K weekly salary. If i'm him, I give it a go for a year and then simply look to move then. You'd be more inclined to accept a deal at that point. I'm repeatedly told Bloom likes a gamble, well that's a fair one to take with White's value next summer. If he is a regular, and he has progressed as much as he has done in the last year, you will indeed be selling to a top 4 club for 60million. If he isn't or hasn't, you'll be taking our 10million bid. In those circumstances, 25million up front plus 5million add on's, plus a 20% sell on clause doesn't look too bad.

See I don't think it is messy. It is probably a really simple situation made to look messy by constant speculation from the media as Brighton, as ever, are staying tight lipped.

The message from Brighton is that Ben White is not for sale. This bit is simple.

This will only change if one of two things happen:

a) Ben White hands in a transfer request to move to another club.
b) Another club make Brighton an offer they cannot refuse. There is a lot of speculation over what that figure might be but I don't think anyone really knows what it is.

So here we are, all the speculation and #freebenwhite nonsense, about where he wants to be or should be is academic until one of the two things above happen.

Still we are enjoying it all immensely here on the south coast, mainly because we don't think we can lose (unless he goes to a fellow relegation battling side).

A really promising player or a shit load of cash..... Clearly Tony Bloom's plan all along.

 

[Seasider78]

Yeah, messy.

Thought his agent has advised him poorly . . . isn't he their only client on the books?. The situation that has arisen could see him at Brighton until the age of 26 without making that breakthrough. As we have seen with Chelsea, plenty of no-hopers languishing in their gutter whose career depends on yet another loan, and having seen Blackman, Baker and Brown up close, not sure if they have the motivation to step up any longer.

Talking of Chelsea, and as an aside, met Jamal Blackman's (the Chelsea keeper) brother recently to be told he earns 30K a week. Seven season and seven loans. Frustrated he is at how his career has not progressed and almost 27 years old. Enjoys his cars and the ladies though, and not getting close to that money in the Championship. Modern football.

So back to White. He has to play regularly this season to keep his career progressing. If I were him, I'd reject all contract offers. You should get him out in such circumstances; it's not healthy for the club. We got Wood out and we got Taylor out (both to Burnley) when they asked to leave. Both were under contract and we got 'fair' money.

Let's assume, Bloom stands his ground. Doubt White will struggle on his 5-10K weekly salary. If i'm him, I give it a go for a year and then simply look to move then. You'd be more inclined to accept a deal at that point. I'm repeatedly told Bloom likes a gamble, well that's a fair one to take with White's value next summer. If he is a regular, and he has progressed as much as he has done in the last year, you will indeed be selling to a top 4 club for 60million. If he isn't or hasn't, you'll be taking our 10million bid. In those circumstances, 25million up front plus 5million add on's, plus a 20% sell on clause doesn't look too bad.

I am not going to speculate what Ben White wants as truth be told nobody knows.

What I do not understand is the rhetoric that he will develop better at Leeds than Brighton. We took Lamptey from Chelsea who wanted more game time and because he is good enough is now a regular first team PL starter at 19, we have Macallister who after a successful loan spell with Boca Juniors has already had many starts in the first team at 21. That is without mentioning Connelly and Alzate who have broken into the first team from our academy.

There is a pathway into regular first team football at Brighton for young players who are good enough and every indication is that White will be able to do the same. The comments of David Weir and Graham Potter about showing he can make the step up and impressing the manager in training are all about keeping the lads feet on the ground and ensuring he keeps working to make what will be a huge step up in quality.

Everything is there at Brighton for Ben to be a success and he has the chance to play for a manager who the owner has backed for many years or move to Leeds and play for Bielsa who at best will sign a 1 year contract.

My feeling is this is all about White getting a better contract but at this stage of his career neither he or his agent hold all the cards on this one so it will be difficult. For example if he is demanding more wages than Webster you could see that being a problem given he has a year of PL football under his belt. We tend to offer rises in increments alongside the players performances as we have done with Lewis Dunk as he has made each step up. I think this will resolve itself in time as Leeds will rightly not want to spend what it would take to change Brighton’s position (given how much strengthening is required elsewhere in your squad) and eventually Brighton will find some middle ground and get a contract over the line.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Yeah, messy.

Thought his agent has advised him poorly . . . isn't he their only client on the books?. The situation that has arisen could see him at Brighton until the age of 26 without making that breakthrough. As we have seen with Chelsea, plenty of no-hopers languishing in their gutter whose career depends on yet another loan, and having seen Blackman, Baker and Brown up close, not sure if they have the motivation to step up any longer.

Talking of Chelsea, and as an aside, met Jamal Blackman's (the Chelsea keeper) brother recently to be told he earns 30K a week. Seven season and seven loans. Frustrated he is at how his career has not progressed and almost 27 years old. Enjoys his cars and the ladies though, and not getting close to that money in the Championship. Modern football.

So back to White. He has to play regularly this season to keep his career progressing. If I were him, I'd reject all contract offers. You should get him out in such circumstances; it's not healthy for the club. We got Wood out and we got Taylor out (both to Burnley) when they asked to leave. Both were under contract and we got 'fair' money.

Let's assume, Bloom stands his ground. Doubt White will struggle on his 5-10K weekly salary. If i'm him, I give it a go for a year and then simply look to move then. You'd be more inclined to accept a deal at that point. I'm repeatedly told Bloom likes a gamble, well that's a fair one to take with White's value next summer. If he is a regular, and he has progressed as much as he has done in the last year, you will indeed be selling to a top 4 club for 60million. If he isn't or hasn't, you'll be taking our 10million bid. In those circumstances, 25million up front plus 5million add on's, plus a 20% sell on clause doesn't look too bad.

For that fee the sell on clause would have to be 45%++.


The last thing Bloom will accept is selling a player now for £25million who could be sold on in 2-3 years for £80million.

And if he isn't sold on for a profit then the sell on % level doesn't matter to anyone, so no reason not to set it that high.

 

[Psychobilly freakout]

So Leeds United offer 25 million for Ben White.....

Well they obviously don’t rate him as highly as we do then.....

Jog on Leeds....

 

[Icy Gull]

Whatever happens with BW it has been great to have the two threads running during the off season. Normally such a dull time on NSC but this thread and the Ben White one have been fun.

I am interested in how TB lets this play out as I’m not sure he’ll be willing to let BW go to Leeds under any circumstances, after the way this has been handled.

Leeds have certainly let everyone know they are back!! As gobby and entitled as ever too.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Whatever happens with BW it has been great to have the two threads running during the off season. Normally such a dull time on NSC but this thread and the Ben White one have been fun.

I am interested in how TB lets this play out as I’m not sure he’ll be willing to let BW go to Leeds under any circumstances, after the way this has been handled.

Leeds have certainly let everyone know they are back!! As gobby and entitled as ever too.

The way I see it is as 1 of 4 outcomes :

- A big move to Chelsea etc.

- A new contract at the Albion.

- White plays on at his current wages. Agent sacked.

- A choice for a striking Ben White of U23s or another Championship loan. Agent sacked at Christmas.

 

[rogersix]

So in case the connection is not clear, re: Ben White. He wants to be at Leeds and we don't understand why you'd want to keep him. Take the money and laugh.

you do come across as a leeds fan who is not totally mental, but where is your evidence?

for the sake of conversation you understand

 

[Stat Brother]

See I don't think it is messy. It is probably a really simple situation made to look messy by constant speculation from the media as Brighton, as ever, are staying tight lipped.

The message from Brighton is that Ben White is not for sale. This bit is simple.
Q
This will only change if one of two things happen:

a) Ben White hands in a transfer request to move to another club.
b) Another club make Brighton an offer they cannot refuse. There is a lot of speculation over what that figure might be but I don't think anyone really knows what it is.

So here we are, all the speculation and #freebenwhite nonsense, about where he wants to be or should be is academic until one of the two things above happen.

Still we are enjoying it all immensely here on the south coast, mainly because we don't think we can lose (unless he goes to a fellow relegation battling side).

A really promising player or a shit load of cash..... Clearly Tony Bloom's plan all along.

a) changes nothing.

 

[sphynx]

The way I see it is as 1 of 4 outcomes :

- A big move to Chelsea etc.

- A new contract at the Albion.

- White plays on at his current wages. Agent sacked.

- A choice for a striking Ben White of U23s or another Championship loan. Agent sacked at Christmas.

5 - Doesn't cop being low balled and requests a transfer.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

5 - Doesn't cop being low balled and requests a transfer.

Like the other players who requested a transfer in years past under Bloom who he didn't want to sell - transfer request denied

 

[andy1980]

Now, here is where you lose me, may be where we have a communication problem and why we don't understand each other.

Trading players is all part of the process. Hope any of our loaned players do fantastically well and hope there are big money offers for all of them. It would be a recognition of our good scouting and upbringing. That is then a challenge for my club. The players who see a future with LUFC will stay and those who don't, or who don't quite fit our profile, get sold. Great! Our youth policy is bearing fruit.

Of course you'll say, but how about the ones you want to keep, but who don't want to stay.

This is just where we have a disconnect with your fanbase (and maybe that is to do with status and how we perceive our own clubs) . . . so let me state it clearly . . . If you don't want to stay, get the f*** out of my club. Side before self, it's a LUFC mantra.

So in case the connection is not clear, re: Ben White. He wants to be at Leeds and we don't understand why you'd want to keep him. Take the money and laugh.[/QUOTE]

Players don't always put in transfer requests because they want to leave. They sometimes do it because they feel its the next step up. Lewes Dunk put in a transfer request because he felt that he had more chance of playing Premier League football with Fulham. Dale Stephens done the same because Burnley were a Premier League club. Then there is Leo Ulloa, he put in a transfer request because Leicester wanted him.

2 of those players are still with us, the third one moved because Leicester either met or got close enough to our valuation that we accepted.

I am sure that we will not accept any offers from you. Ben might be slightly disappointed but if he knuckles down plays to the best of his ability then better teams will come along and offer him better contracts. I believe Leeds have never been in the running for Ben White, they just think they have.