Day 6 - Thu 10th Feb - FACTS AND FIGURES

[Marc]

is anyone else getting the sinking feeling that Sheepcoat Valley is looking like the site that this inspector may plump for.

From what I've seen/heard Sheepcote is winning and by a golden mile from maybe THV in 2nd but thats slipping away. Shoreham Harbour appears to be in 3rd which surprised me.

But remember that the Inspector is not deciding which site is best, he is just collating all the information then providing it to JP. JP then compares the previous Falmer stuff to the new evidence on the other proposed sites, this Inspector is therefore not telling JP what to go for, but just saying "heres the information"

 

[Dave the OAP]

But I thought the whole thing was to come up with a view that there was no where even remotely comparable with Falmer.

If this guy turns around and says " there are no place available" then we are home and dry, if he says " well actaully there is this place called Sheepcoat Valley which is a suitable site " then surely the NIMBY's have proved their case

 

[Marc]

But I thought the whole thing was to come up with a view that there was no where even remotely comparable with Falmer.

If this guy turns around and says " there are no place available" then we are home and dry, if he says " well actaully there is this place called Sheepcoat Valley which is a suitable site " then surely the NIMBY's have proved their case

well for starters if no other site is found that doe'nt mean we get a Yes immediatley, I dont buy into that at all. It could be a case of "no other site and Falmer is'nt good enough, sorry Brighton - JP"

Secondly if Sheepcote does come out as a reasonable alternative to Falmer then JP will compare the two and either Pick the best one for a stadium or as above deny them both.

 

[Titanic]

I dont buy into that at all. It could be a case of "no other site and Falmer is'nt good enough, sorry Brighton - JP"

If Falmer isn't 'good enough' why didn't he just say so in the first place and tell us to go and find somewhere else ??

 

[Dave the OAP]

well for starters if no other site is found that doe'nt mean we get a Yes immediatley, I dont buy into that at all. It could be a case of "no other site and Falmer is'nt good enough, sorry Brighton - JP"

I dont buy that argument. I think he will say YES if no other site is suitable


Secondly if Sheepcote does come out as a reasonable alternative to Falmer then JP will compare the two and either Pick the best one for a stadium or as above deny them both.

Ah, this is where you need LB. I may be way off the mark but I assumed it was a straight no other site = Falmer. Another possiblilty site = no Falmer and Withdean for as long as we can persuade B&H to let us stay there or Tom carr takes us to the Court of Human Rights

 

[Ex Shelton Seagull]

Clay steps up to the plate to deal with an array of ramblers, farmers and mad old dears.

Tarquin B.A Fuckwit from the Sussex Downsmen:

Fuckwit: "Oh, well me and the chaps have had a bladdy good think about this stadium lark and we've decided the best place for this thingy is somewhere in the centre of town."
Clay: "Whereabouts in the town?"
Fuckwit: "Somewhere around West Street. Just up from that clock tower thing. Don't go into town much, spend must of my time rambling you see. Had a really good ramble first thing this morning, had TWO rambles in the space of an hour last night.."
Clay: "Yes, I think we're straying off point a little bit here Mr Fuckwit."
Fuckwit: "Oh right, right, right. Well I say stick it over that shop place. Never buy from town shops. Always get my goods from the country. Eggs, bread, hardcore Dutch scat pornography, you can get it all from Mrs Cuthbert! So you stick it down in the dirty town and Bob's your uncle. Or father. Or both, as in my case. Hrmph."
Clay: "Have you any evidence or figures for this plan?"
Fuckwit: "Good lord no! Don't know how you townie folk work but when us country types want something done we bladdy well do it. Facts and figures, pah! I have to deal with them all the time as a commodities broker (phone rings) excuse me. What? Civil war brewing in El Salvador? Sell up the facking coffee right now Richard! We'll make a packet! Care to join me for a good hard ramble tonight? Super!"

 

[Yorkie]

If Falmer isn't 'good enough' why didn't he just say so in the first place and tell us to go and find somewhere else ??

I understood it to mean that we can have a stadium but to review all the other sites to see if there was a better one?

I could get seriously depressed about all this.

 

[SurreySeagulls]

Do they allow that type on language in a very important meeting

 

[Dave the OAP]

I understood it to mean that we can have a stadium but to review all the other sites to see if there was a better one?

I could get seriously depressed about all this.

that is what I meant by "sinking feeling"

We were all under the impression that there was no-where remotely suitable...now it seems to be heading towards the ..."well sheepcoat valley is actually not a bad place...."

I am probably pre-empting this but I am heading down the dark valley of despair here.


Cue a Keep the Faith posting

 

[BensGrandad]

I understood it to mean that we can have a stadium but to review all the other sites to see if there was a better one?

I could get seriously depressed about all this.

I must agree I was under the impression rightly or wrongly that we will get a stadium either at Falmer or somewhere else if the Inspector decides that site is better.

Presonally I do not care where it is as I will travel to it irrespective of distance inconvenience etc because I WANT TO SUPPORT BHA.

The club have said Falmer is the best and have spent a lot of time and money saying so so I must go along with their judgement.

 

[Titanic]

I am probably pre-empting this but I am heading down the dark valley of despair here.

Chin up Dave - Keep the Faith

 

[Dave the OAP]

I hear a Pint of harveys at the Market Porter Borough market calling me


drink me

 

[Marc]

If Falmer isn't 'good enough' why didn't he just say so in the first place and tell us to go and find somewhere else ??

Because he accepts the need for a stadium so is now asking (this Inquiry) to find a another/better location. He may think Falmer is not good enough so this is what the new Inquiry is all about, if nowhere is found he could say "Falmer is'nt good enough though and you have nowhere else, keep looking or stay at withdean until something comes up".

Lord B is more intune with everything but I'm not happy thinking that if all other sites are dismissed then Falmer is an automatic Yes, that just does'nt ride with me, but thats just my opinion so dont take it as Gospel or anything

 

[perseus]

Because he accepts the need for a stadium so is now asking (this Inquiry) to find a another/better location. He may think Falmer is not good enough so this is what the new Inquiry is all about, if nowhere is found he could say "Falmer is'nt good enough though and you have nowhere else, keep looking or stay at withdean until something comes up".

Lord B is more intune with everything but I'm not happy thinking that if all other sites are dismissed then Falmer is an automatic Yes, that just does'nt ride with me, but thats just my opinion so dont take it as Gospel or anything

I go along with that as an interpretation.

Falmer will Yes or No without any clear explanation.
The Inspector will not recommend another site. (i.e. there is no point recommending another site at the Public Inquiry as it can only damage the chances of Falmer without increasing its own chances in the strict legal sense.)

This is the above board legal stuff. Who knows what might go on behind the scenes?

 

[Bart]

Not trying to be negative, just trying to explain the situation:

The Falmer inquiry, that Inspector Collyer reported on, and this current resumed inquiry are ultimately looking at the Falmer site and whether it is a suitable site. Part of the decision making process is looking at what other alternatives might reasonably be available. But JP can only make a decision on the planning appeal in front of him and thus decide whether or not to grant planning permission for Falmer.

If he decides that there are other alternatives available he won’t necessarily identify them individually in his decision letter, which will be comparatively short in relation to the Inspector’s report. His decision letter might just say something like:

“For the reasons given in paragraphs 5.1 – 5.10 of the Inspector’s report, the Secretary of State accepts the conclusion that there is a realistic prospect of there being a site available as an alternative to Falmer that would be less harmful in terms of adverse planning consequences. He therefore considers that the appeal fails the alternative sites test.”

This is because he (or a future incumbent) won’t prejudice the position on an alternative site until a formal planning application is submitted and needs to be determined i.e. he can’t say “Sheetcote Valley is the answer – go and build your stadium there” because until all the details are submitted and assessed in an application no one will know for sure that a stadium can go there. The Inspector’s report will obviously go into detail about the different alternative sites and will provide a starting point for the Club if they do need to pursue one of the alternative sites.

The club’s interpretation of JP asking for this additional inquiry is that the case for Falmer is proven and that proving no alternative site is generally feasible we’ll get a ‘Yes’ decision. However, it is in theory possible for JP to decide that Falmer has its faults (as set out by the previous Inspector) and dismisses the appeal without necessarily being convinced that an alternative site is available.

 

[The Large One]

I understood it to mean that we can have a stadium but to review all the other sites to see if there was a better one?

So, I think you will find, does Jonathan Clay, the Albion's QC. As someone who deals with high-level government cases on a regular basis, this is what he has taken Prescott's letter of July 26 to mean.

 

[Yorkie]

So, I think you will find, does Jonathan Clay, the Albion's QC. As someone who deals with high-level government cases on a regular basis, this is what he has taken Prescott's letter of July 26 to mean.

Phew

Thanks Al. I feel a bit happier now. I was starting to panic then.
I still won't rest easy until it's all sorted out though.

 

[The Large One]

The club’s interpretation of JP asking for this additional inquiry is that the case for Falmer is proven and that proving no alternative site is generally feasible we’ll get a ‘Yes’ decision. However, it is in theory possible for JP to decide that Falmer has its faults (as set out by the previous Inspector) and dismisses the appeal without necessarily being convinced that an alternative site is available.

Correct. However, if Prescott is minded to turn down Falmer, he could and should have done so by now. The suitability and availability of the other sites would be irrelevant to that particular planning application.

 

[Easy 10]

it is in theory possible for JP to decide that Falmer has its faults (as set out by the previous Inspector) and dismisses the appeal without necessarily being convinced that an alternative site is available.

But having already had an extensive public inquiry specifically on the merits of Falmer, surely the ODPM, having deliberated over it for MONTHS and not actually said "no" to it (which they could quite easily have done given the inspectors conclusions), by implication they have accepted Falmer as a viable site for a stadium. The current inquiry is not an "appeal" as you have referred to it . It is an inquiry exclusively to examine the viability of alternative sites compared to Falmer.

If none of the other sites can match up to Falmer in suitablility, then the logical conclusion HAS to be that Falmer is granted. Otherwise, what was the point of this entire process being put into action if the answer to Falmer was ultimately going to be a "no" anyway ? A "no" that could have been given last July btw.

 

[Curious Orange]

I think some of you are forgetting the criteria that the ODPM have laid down. It may well be the case that Sheepcote is similar to Falmer in many respects, but in terms of sustainable transport it is definitely NOT.