Day 13 - Thu 24th Feb - CHILL FACTOR

[ShorehamGull]

Inquiry day 13 (thursday) Chill factor

My view of the Inquiry day 13
It was back to sitting there in the chamber today looking like we had just climbed mount Everest as the heating yet again was not working as it should be. So to any of you thinking of attending the inquiry be prepared to sit and shiver but also bring along a hot drink and flu medicine because you may end up coming out of there with a cold.
I noticed a number of people coughing and sneezing today, even sweet Megan was sneezed quite a few times, so I hope she won’t be missing tomorrow or on any other day for the remainder of the inquiry.
Before proceeding got under way this morning, Mr Clay requested that Mr Leigh should be recalled to the dock to resubmit his evidence. Mr Clay got his way after discussions with Mr Brier, so that encounter scheduled for next week should be interesting to see.

Mr Green (Brighton and Hove City Council) continued in the dock this morning from where he left off yesterday, this time being questioned by Mr Hopkins.
Mr Hopkins asked questions about the possible redevelopments of Shoreham Harbour, and that the City Council and the club should get together to meet the high costs of developing the site. Mr Green told Mr Hopkins that the council cannot go to SEEDA (South East England Development Agency) without a viable project that will work for the harbour; if they went down this channel it will cost the club more time and money.
Mr Hopkins then suggested that as the club as done so well financially at Withdean they should stay there, WHAT? Does Mr Hopkins have any idea how much Withdean is costing the club? He didn’t even know how long we had been at Withdean for.

Mrs McKay was next to ask question and suggested to Mr Green that if the Stadium was to go at Shoreham harbour that they could rearrange the road system in the area to accommodate Parking and place a major link road in, Mr Green said this would not be possible as a link road would split residential areas in two and would receive a huge amount of objections.
In terms of Withdean, Mrs McKay suggested that the Withdean Athletics Club could move to a site somewhere north of the Bypass then the Albion could redevelop Withdean.
Mr Green finished just before morning break and we could enjoy a 1 hour and 30 min lunch because Mr Mogridge the next witness wanted more time to talk in private through his evidence with the City Council.

We all returned at half one, and Mr Mogridge (Speaking on behalf of the City Council on traffic and transport issues) was just taking his seat in the dock.
He was giving evidence relating to different methods of getting to the stadium and the time it would take whatever site it was located on. He even talked about at what distances people would be prepared to travel and how long it would take fans to travel from different areas.
His research was set up in tables and was a mixture of different figures and percentages. I was starting find things at this stage boring as I am not to one for figures, apart from Megan’s wonderful figure.
From afternoon break onwards Megan wasn’t to be seen again, so I don’t know what happened to her. Hope she was not suffering from flu; I could of offered my services to keep her warm.
Not long after the break I was beginning to feel a little under the weather myself because of the cold, but this is when my staying power kicked in and kept me going until the end, hope I don’t suffer tomorrow.
Mr Hopkins questioned Mr Mogridge for the rest of the afternoon of which I was not really concentrating; Mr Brier called it a day at 5pm.
Earlier start tomorrow at 9:30, hopefully I will be there if I am not struck down with nasty cold, hopefully Megan will be there too.
C U GUYS
SG News at Ten, Brighton Town Hall, and COLD

 

[eastlondonseagull]

Wonder whether Megan is aware of her rapidly growing fan club...

They really sound like a bunch of idiots these NIMBYs. Nice one Shoreham

 

[Lord Bracknell]

My version (with thanks to Tim Carder for filling me in with what happened before I got there) ...




Considering they have yet to put in an appearance at the Inquiry, the owners of Toads Hole Valley have managed to exert quite an influence on how it has proceeded. They started by failing to respond to invitations to meet the football club. They submitted their main proof of evidence at the very last minute. They contrived to book their representatives in to make their case on the last two days available in March, thereby ensuring that the closing submissions will have to be delayed by five weeks. And they’ve turned down requests for informal meetings since the Inquiry started.

On Thursday morning, they caused another kerfuffle by presenting the Inspector with a document that claims to rebut key transport evidence that was on the point of being agreed by all of the expert witnesses, from the Club, the City Council and Lewes District Council.

This didn’t go down well. The Albion’s transport witness will have to be recalled. The City Council’s witness had to ask for time to consider the new document before he began giving his own evidence. And the Inquiry could be prolonged.

It meant that we were all given a two hour lunch break The Inspector used part of that time to draft a letter to Toads Hole Valley’s representatives ‘expressing concern’. Since Mr Brier gives every impression of being a calm and reflective man, that sounds like it could be him getting very severe.

The first part of the morning was given over to the conclusion of the questioning of Nigel Green, the City Council’s planning expert. Charlie Hopkins, for Falmer Parish Council, floated the idea that the Albion’s temporary stay at Withdean was not causing the Club any difficulty in flourishing. Hazel McKay, for the Regency Society, followed this up with her now regular suggestion that the Club might stay there even longer, pending Shoreham Harbour becoming available.

Mr Green reminded everyone that Withdean was not only unacceptable to the football club, but it was hardly popular with local residents or the athletics clubs either. ‘Hadn’t the Council been the architect of all these problems?’ asked Ms McKay. Mr Green’s response was to recall that Messrs Archer and Bellotti had played a rather bigger role.

There was more about Shoreham Harbour from Ms McKay. If the road access could be funded by the government, wouldn’t this open the way to the Albion building a stadium there? No, said Mr Green. Shoreham Harbour’s redevelopment is not an important enough issue for the government. He later expanded on this when the Inspector asked his questions. The redevelopment project was stalled. The South East England Regional Development Agency and all the other parties were very concerned. But the funding gap looked just too big.

It really isn’t going to happen, Hazel.

After our long lunch break, Mike Mogridge, Director of Colin Buchanan and Partners, the City Council’s transport consultants, was ready to give his evidence. He’d been involved in advising on transport issues for the new Wembley Stadium and the proposed Olympic Stadium in East London, so he came with a good pedigree.

He took us carefully through his thinking about transport. He had made predictions of how people would get to matches, based upon real information about where a sample of real supporters – season ticket holders – actually lived. He explained why this was a better way of doing it than relying on forecasts based on general population patterns, the way that other transport consultants worked.

He provided evidence that made realistic assumptions about walking and cycling. Most people won’t walk much more than twenty or thirty minutes. And very few people cycle to football matches. If you wanted to rely on sustainable transport, the quality of the bus and train networks would be critical. Since Brighton Station wasn’t available for a stadium, the best bet was Falmer, with Sheepcote Valley second. No surprise there, then.

Mr Mogridge’s approach enabled him to deliver some detailed estimates of the number of cars that were likely to be left looking for opportunities to park on-street around all of the potential stadium sites. Falmer was the only site where there wouldn’t be a problem, provided enough well managed car parks and park and ride schemes were available. And that is exactly what the Albion are planning.

Of course there were questions. That’s why Falmer Parish Council and Lewes District Council are employing lawyers. Mr Hopkins had first go. All he succeeded in doing was getting Mr Mogridge to admit that he might have underestimated the number of people who would travel on the trains to Falmer.

The only point at which I began to worry was when Mr Mogridge mused that it was all very well worrying about sustainable transport for travel to football matches, which occupy a stadium just 25 times a year, when society at large seems unconcerned about achieving sustainable transport access to work places that are open every day. This may be true, but is it helpful? Let’s just hope that John Prescott doesn’t decide that sustainable transport isn’t, after all, that important a factor in deciding where a stadium should be put.

If he ends up with that conclusion, an awful lot of time and money will have been wasted at this Inquiry, by the Albion, the local authorities … and even the owners of Toads Hole Valley.

 

[Curious Orange]

Sounds like a very odd day at the Inquiry.

It is clear that the owners of Toads Hole Valley have an agenda, but what is it I wonder?

 

[Rangdo]

Please tell me that this Hazel Mckay looks like an old witch because that will complete the picture for me. It'll ruin it if she looks even half as good as Megan

 

[Dover]

I can now say that I have been, but everyone else is right. Please take a blanket, soup and warming rations. It was freezing in there, and I only lasted an hour and a half.

I was also taught that when addressing an audience, you should stand and project your voice. Something that Mr Hopkins should remember.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

I can now say that I have been, but everyone else is right. Please take a blanket, soup and warming rations. It was freezing in there, and I only lasted an hour and a half.

I was also taught that when addressing an audience, you should stand and project your voice. Something that Mr Hopkins should remember.

Actually, he's remembering that the best way to be heard in that council chamber is by sitting down and speaking into the microphone.

There. I've managed it. A good word for Charlie Hopkins.

Here's another one (but, apart from me, who cares?) ...

He's a Newport County supporter.

 

[Dover]

For being a Newport fan, he has gone up in my estimation then!

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Please tell me that this Hazel Mckay looks like an old witch because that will complete the picture for me. It'll ruin it if she looks even half as good as Megan

 

[Seagullible]

is it just me or did she borrow that hair from the Beetles

any chance of a pic of Megan for those of us unable to get to the inquiry?

 

[Colbourne Kid]

The agenda for Toads Hole Valley (Cook family & Robert Stiles) is that they are seeking to open up a piece of land which has little or no development value for development.

Toads Hole Valley has little or no chance of being developed for many years. It is not in the emerging development plan, it is in the AONB although unlikely to be in the National Park, it is regarded by some as being part of the 'wider sweep of the Downs' (where have we heard that before).

It is likely to be 20-30 years before they can free the Valley for development - and cash in.

If they can persuade the Inspector that it is an alternative site for a Stadium and therefore available for development, they will then be able to push that view to developing commercial or industrial premises or even housing.

Their offer of the site for a stadium is conditional on the further development of industrial units in the area adjacent to King George Avenue including the demand that the Club put in all necessary infrastructure and internal roads, so it is likely that any negotiations for the Club to take part of the site would stall on those issues.

It is not a realistic alternative site it is merely the Cooks and Robert Stiles trying to bring forward a cash cow on the backs of the Club.

 

[ditchy]

is it just me or did she borrow that hair from the Beetles

any chance of a pic of Megan for those of us unable to get to the inquiry?

ummm nice ..she looks as tho she goes over !!

 

[The Clown of Pevensey Bay]

I find the city council's barrister far more attractive in the Yummy Mummy stakes than Hazel McKay. She has a fabulously plummy voice that could (and probably has) cut glass... and the Inspector sometimes looks as if he's a bit scared of her.

I'm just setting off for more cross-examination of Moggers Moggridge and then the Friends of SHeepcote Valley, who have already left a pile of leaflets in the council chamber explaining what a wonderful scenic setting it is

 

[The Clown of Pevensey Bay]

Whoops... triplepost tastic. Sorry.

 

[The Clown of Pevensey Bay]

Sorry mods please delete... @@@@@@@ dialup connection...

 

[Parson Henry]

And very few people cycle to football matches.

.

I am sorry when I read this all that sprang to mind bearing in mind we are playing Millwall tomorrow was the vision of twenty Millwall hoolies pedalling madly after an equal number of our 'boys' on their bikes.

Just made me laugh....

 

[perseus]

The agenda for Toads Hole Valley (Cook family & Robert Stiles) is that they are seeking to open up a piece of land which has little or no development value for development.

Toads Hole Valley has little or no chance of being developed for many years. It is not in the emerging development plan, it is in the AONB although unlikely to be in the National Park, it is regarded by some as being part of the 'wider sweep of the Downs' (where have we heard that before).

It is likely to be 20-30 years before they can free the Valley for development - and cash in.

If they can persuade the Inspector that it is an alternative site for a Stadium and therefore available for development, they will then be able to push that view to developing commercial or industrial premises or even housing.

Their offer of the site for a stadium is conditional on the further development of industrial units in the area adjacent to King George Avenue including the demand that the Club put in all necessary infrastructure and internal roads, so it is likely that any negotiations for the Club to take part of the site would stall on those issues.

It is not a realistic alternative site it is merely the Cooks and Robert Stiles trying to bring forward a cash cow on the backs of the Club.

Whilst agreeing the sentiments that Toad's Hole Valley is a worse choice than Falmer and the land owners are a greedy load of sods, the coastal area is a regeneration zone with an imminent employment crisis looming. They would still have to find the temants for industrial units or offices and there is still room at Shoreham Harbour which is a better location and the proper place for business units.

It is up to the Hove residents. I would push the idea that until the brownfield location of Shoreham Harbour is developed for industrial units, Toads Hole Valley should be kept in reserve.

 

[The Large One]

The only point at which I began to worry was when Mr Mogridge mused that it was all very well worrying about sustainable transport for travel to football matches, which occupy a stadium just 25 times a year, when society at large seems unconcerned about achieving sustainable transport access to work places that are open every day. This may be true, but is it helpful? Let’s just hope that John Prescott doesn’t decide that sustainable transport isn’t, after all, that important a factor in deciding where a stadium should be put.

If he ends up with that conclusion, an awful lot of time and money will have been wasted at this Inquiry, by the Albion, the local authorities … and even the owners of Toads Hole Valley.

But surely the mere fact that something as relatively influential as a football club postively encouraging people to use public transport - free of charge - will only be seen favourably by this government.

 

[perseus]

I am sorry when I read this all that sprang to mind bearing in mind we are playing Millwall tomorrow was the vision of twenty Millwall hoolies pedalling madly after an equal number of our 'boys' on their bikes.

Just made me laugh....

We will all be in electric buggies by that time. And the Police will be removing the sticks from the place where to golf clubs go to stop rival fans putting sticks in the wheels and causing electric buggy traffic jams.

 

[Rangdo]

Yeah, I can carry on hating her then. BITCH.