grubbyhands
Well-known member
She / He can piss off assuming She / He can decide which lavatory to use!
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[Brighton] Crystal Palace Fan Labour Brighton Pavilion MP Candidate
- Thread starter Chicken Run
- Start date
I was just reporting what Izzard said. (Although, yes, I DO want us to reclaim Pavilion. I'm not one of those who thinks Labour and the Greens are somehow 'the same').
Is it PotG?
Thrifty non-licker
I'm not totally sure it WAS him anyway.
It’s not recent.
- Thread starter
- #245
You’re right, they are most definitely not the same!
ROSM
Well-known member
I do agree. Although to a degree that is what happened with Caroline Lucas and I think Peter Bottomley who i understand have both been good constituency MPs. When i needed help, Lucas who was my neighbouring MP was better than Simon (Radford) Kirby who was my MP.
Some sort of local service (business holder, resident, employee or councillor) would help weed this out.
Although Izzard has live in many sussex places (eastbourne, bexhill and brighton too)
The Fifth Column
Retired ex-cop
Late 60s early 70s is the generally accepted start of the concept of gender identity. That's recent I'd say given it wasn't a thing in the previous 2000 years.
Incorrect. See my previous posts explaining what history is.
Where did you read gender identity started in the 60’s? and who claimed that was “generally accepted”?
Lots of things are “generally accepted”. That doesn’t make them true.
Gender identity as a term was possibly popularised in the 60’s but it has been around for a lot, lot, longer than that. See below;
“Although contemporary culture likes to position gender non-conforming people as a new phenomenon, history shows otherwise. Anthropologists have long documented cultures around the world that acknowledge more than two genders. There are examples going back 3,000 years to the Iron Age, and even further back to the Copper Age“.
link.ucop.edu
eg:
Fa’afafine are people who identify themselves as a third-gender in Samoa, American Samoa and the Samoan diaspora. A recognized gender identity/gender role since at least the early 20th century in Samoan society — and some theorize an integral part of traditional Samoan culture — fa’afafine are male at birth and explicitly embody both masculine and feminine gender traits, fashioned in a way unique to this part of the world.
“Although contemporary culture likes to position gender non-conforming people as a new phenomenon, history shows otherwise. Anthropologists have long documented cultures around the world that acknowledge more than two genders. There are examples going back 3,000 years to the Iron Age, and even further back to the Copper Age“.
Exploring the history of gender expression
Guest writer Ianna Urquhart shares a multifaceted perspective of how society’s ideas around gender expression have transformed over time — from the Iron Age to our present understanding.
link.ucop.edu
eg:
Pacific Islands
Long before Cook’s arrival in Hawaii, a multiple-gender tradition existed among the Kanaka Maoli indigenous society. The mahu referred to biological males or females who inhabited a gender role somewhere between, or encompassing both, the masculine and feminine. They held a sacred social role as educators and promulgators of ancient traditions and rituals.Fa’afafine are people who identify themselves as a third-gender in Samoa, American Samoa and the Samoan diaspora. A recognized gender identity/gender role since at least the early 20th century in Samoan society — and some theorize an integral part of traditional Samoan culture — fa’afafine are male at birth and explicitly embody both masculine and feminine gender traits, fashioned in a way unique to this part of the world.
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The right wing agenda, is to convince people that non-binary gender identification is a very recent thing. A scourge of modern society. A modern phenomenon epitomising all that is wrong with the “woke, loony-lefty, wishy-washy, yoghurt knitters”.
Now you know that’s a lie and you can move on, more enlightened than this time yesterday. This is a good thing.
Now you know that’s a lie and you can move on, more enlightened than this time yesterday. This is a good thing.
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The Fifth Column
Retired ex-cop
The term 'Gender Identity ' was popularised in the 1950s/60s, before then the term didn't exist and neither did the concept. You appear to have cherry picked a couple of historic examples of cultural differences and practices within very small indigenous populations and assigned the modern concept of gender identity to it, this is completely wrong. You can't arbitrarily and retrospectively apply a modern western concept of gender identity to such practices, that's simply wrong and rather offensive to assume such a thing towards these groups of people. I'm talking specifically about the 'modern' interpretation of what is referred to by most as 'gender identity'. I'm not having a pop at you personally, I respect your opinion and disagree with it, I just ask the same in return. You or anyone else certainly won't get an apology from me simply for having an opinion. Unfortunately a lot of people when debating this issue resort to patronising and condescending remarks and personal attacks, somehow thinking this is a clever way to win their argument, you appear to be heading in this direction with the comments you have made so far.
Firstly, apologies if I was rude. Unintended.
I think you’re changing the goalposts here somewhat. I think I’ve demonstrated that the concept of gender identity has existed for a long time. The Greeks explored it at length.
But all debate is good. An interesting topic, above all else.
Lucas was, to an extent, parachuted in but was an incredible local MP. Without going into too much detail she was about the only person of “power” who helped a friend who lived in her constituency, but voted Tory, to get answers and justice regarding a family tragedy.
Whereas we all know a couple of local Tory politicians who are also BHA fans who’d be as much use as a chocolate fireguard in the same circumstances.
US Seagull
Well-known member
The Fifth Column
Retired ex-cop
You do know that's Greek Mythology don't you? Not only that it has zero relevance or or connection to Gender Identity, you may as well have posted a recipe for bread and butter pudding. A non sequitur Trump would be proud of. A Hermaphrodite is a word that is used to describe a living organism that produces both male and female gametes, not to be confused with Intersexuality which is the condition used to describe humans with one or several physical sexual attributes of both males and females. If you had used Intersexuality as an example you would be closer to making a connection.
At some point you’re going to have to accept that gender identity wasn’t invented in the 1960’s.
It’s just facts.
US Seagull
Well-known member
It absolutely has relevance, because the ancient Greeks accepted the idea that some people were intersexed. That's why they invented a god to represent them. Like they invented gods to represent other things in their world that they felt were important.
And then you bring up hermaphrodite animals, which is absolutely a non-sequitur as that wasn't what the link was about at all. I get that it's a lot to ask somebody to read to the end of an article, but you couldn't read to the end of a single word?
You are just claiming it has "zero relevance" to try to conceal how wrong you are.
The article I posted was dismissed similarly, with entire cultures being written off as tiny little niche tribes.
He’s wrong, he knows he’s wrong.
The idea that humans suddenly came up with gender identity in the 1960’s is frankly, laughable.
He’s read the article he posted incorrectly, it says the phrase “gender identity” came into popular use in the 1960’s. Not that gender identity came into being in the 1960’s. Which would be ludicrous.
The Fifth Column
Retired ex-cop
Typical mouth frothing standard responses as usual. I'm right, you're wrong, do your research correctly rather than rely on Wikipedia to try and win an argument. Confusing intersex and a greek myth with gender identity is quite stupid really. Similarly if you can provide some peer reviewed mainstream evidence that 'gender identity' existed pre 1960 I'd be interested to see it. Its simply a recent social concept, I don't get why it triggers and bothers you so much to accept its a recent invention? Why are you so insistent it is thousands of years old, its not - fact, there was no such concept before the 60s. Do you think that by somehow giving the issue a fake thousand year history it makes it more valid? I imagine your responses will be more, 'he's not read this, he knows he's wrong, he's done this he's done that blah blah. There I'm doing what your doing now, it's easy isn't it. Both on ignore now so debate and like each others posts to your hearts content, I won't see them.