Crisis for Cameron & the Conservatives.

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

Too bloody right! Look at the mess that Switzerland is in!

Because it's part of the EU single market via a 100 or so billateral agreements.

 

[pork pie]

Because it's part of the EU single market via a 100 or so billateral agreements.

Exactly! And NOT part of the EEC. In my opinion, exectly were we should be - without all the socialist shite they keep throwing at os as legislation.

 

[Brovion]

Because it's part of the EU single market via a 100 or so billateral agreements.

Exactly! It IS possible to survive and prosper without being irrevocably tied into every element of the E.C. 'project'.

EDIT: Bloody hell I thought my post was duplicated and in fact I've said nearly the same as pork pie! Well, without the socialist dig.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

over 2 years ago when the policy was made they expected the Irish to vote NO again, the Eastern bloc countries to hold out and iirc there was Dutch or Danish up in the air. the world changed, in particular the Irish No vote collapsed, partially due to massive funding of the Yes campiagn with EU money :

So why bother at all if the Treaty is going to be voted out anyway by Ireland, Denmark, Netherlands, Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Latvia, Estonia etc? If it isn't, as has happened, then you're out of time and faced with being accused of posturing and dishonesty unless you go ahead. Seems an ill-advised approach to me.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

Exactly! And NOT part of the EEC. In my opinion, exectly were we should be - without all the socialist shite they keep throwing at os as legislation.

Exactly! It IS possible to survive and prosper without being irrevocably tied into every element of the E.C. 'project'.

EDIT: Bloody hell I thought my post was duplicated and in fact I've said nearly the same as pork pie! Well, without the socialist dig.

So you'd both both happy with automatically adopting verbatum any EU legislation on the single market into national law when the email/fax arrives from the Commission? No debate, chance to influence, modify, input - just do it.

 

[beorhthelm]

So why bother at all if the Treaty is going to be voted out anyway by Ireland, Denmark, Netherlands, Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Latvia, Estonia etc? If it isn't, as has happened, then you're out of time and faced with being accused of posturing and dishonesty unless you go ahead. Seems an ill-advised approach to me.

obviously you are being rhetocial, it was an attempt to put some clear blue water between them and and Labour in the face of the governments reneging on their manifesto pledge. yes, egg on their face and a sticky wicket for now, but less so than the government in the whole.

So you'd both both happy with automatically adopting verbatum any EU legislation on the single market into national law when the email/fax arrives from the Commission? No debate, chance to influence, modify, input - just do it.

or... one could choose which legislation to adopt, you know though parliament which is supposed to be the authority in this country. its not a one way street, the EU needs the UK too, 2/3rd largest economy and net contributor. The feared two teir EU is inevitable anyway as France/German forge ahead with political union while the new comers are bearly upto scratch economically, no reason why UK cant straddle the groups or be in a third teir.

 

[Brovion]

So you'd both both happy with automatically adopting verbatum any EU legislation on the single market into national law when the email/fax arrives from the Commission? No debate, chance to influence, modify, input - just do it.

Now you're just being dramatic and you're adopting the position that all the federalist do, namely that your trying to paint the very worst picture.

Anyway to answer your, slightly stupid, overtly simplistic question: My first answer is no, my second answer is to refer you to beorhthelm's post above and my third answer is, well, if that's the alternative to the path we're currently on it seems to be the lesser of two evils - although it won't be much different to what will happen under the Treaty. Certainly when our Commissioners have been 'rotated off' the Commission (to streamline the decision process as per the Lisbon Treaty) we WON'T get a chance to influence it.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

Now you're just being dramatic and you're adopting the position that all the federalist do, namely that your trying to paint the very worst picture.
Anyway to answer your, slightly stupid, overtly simplistic question: My first answer is no,...........

The point I'm making relates to the position of Switzerland, and the EEA member states btw, whereby it is a condition of their participation in the EU single market that they adopt the relevant EU legislation verbatum into national law. This legislation is notified to them by the EU Commission.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

obviously you are being rhetocial, it was an attempt to put some clear blue water between them and and Labour in the face of the governments reneging on their manifesto pledge. yes, egg on their face and a sticky wicket for now, but less so than the government in the whole..

Actually no, I thought it a poorly thought through policy at the time.

or... one could choose which legislation to adopt, you know though parliament which is supposed to be the authority in this country. its not a one way street, the EU needs the UK too, 2/3rd largest economy and net contributor. The feared two teir EU is inevitable anyway as France/German forge ahead with political union while the new comers are bearly upto scratch economically, no reason why UK cant straddle the groups or be in a third teir.

I assume you mean to "debate" any proposed legislation through Parliament and not to read it through (as now) via a Statutory Instrument?

Personally, I don't think that the EU believes it needs the UK anymore.

 

[Simster]

Good move. By scrapping the referendum because events have moved on too far it begs the question how Labour, the party of government for 12 years, have managed to avoid keeping their own commitment to a referendum.

"commitment to a referendum"? We're a parliamentary democracy FFS. I want our governments to make tough decisions without having to go to the electorate every time an issue looks like it's going to split it's own party.

Sorry, this is a Tory f*** up - nothing more, nothing less.

 

[User removed 4]

"commitment to a referendum"? We're a parliamentary democracy FFS. I want our governments to make tough decisions without having to go to the electorate every time an issue looks like it's going to split it's own party.

Sorry, this is a Tory f*** up - nothing more, nothing less.

You are so partisan its beyond a joke , you're like a robot spouting the party line, you may call it a tory f*** up, but only because labour have reneged and fudged the isssue in the first place.

 

[Simster]

There's nothing partisan about me, it's just that I don't agree with you.

I have no idea whether Labour have reneged on a promise or not. If they have, then they are equally culpable. However, there is no doubt that over the issue of Europe, the Tories do mealy mouthed flannel with the very best of them. Harriot Harmen should be a Tory really.

 

[User removed 4]

There's nothing partisan about me, it's just that I don't agree with you.

I have no idea whether Labour have reneged on a promise or not. If they have, then they are equally culpable. However, there is no doubt that over the issue of Europe, the Tories do mealy mouthed flannel with the very best of them. Harriot Harmen should be a Tory really.

lets be honest, politicians do mealy mouthed flannel, i know its a cliche , but im f***ing disillusioned with them all.

 

[NMH]

There's nothing partisan about me, it's just that I don't agree with you.

I have no idea whether Labour have reneged on a promise or not. If they have, then they are equally culpable. However, there is no doubt that over the issue of Europe, the Tories do mealy mouthed flannel with the very best of them. Harriot Harmen should be a Tory really.

Add to that the tory's frustration at being out of power for so long that they have to either stand back and admire labour, or spout whatever anti-labour stuff they can think up, until they get the chance to do exactly what labour have already been doing - that they were guffawing or harrumphing at.

It's amusing that they spout that labour policies that they have to approve of, were always "originally tory ideas" - or when they embrace ones on their own that crash and burn.

 

[User removed 4]

Add to that the tory's frustration at being out of power for so long that they have to either stand back and admire labour, or spout whatever anti-labour stuff they can think up, until they get the chance to do exactly what labour have already been doing - that they were guffawing or harrumphing at.

It's amusing that they spout that labour policies that they have to approve of, were always "originally tory ideas" - or when they embrace ones on their own that crash and burn.

You literally talk gibberish

 

[pork pie]

So you'd both both happy with automatically adopting verbatum any EU legislation on the single market into national law when the email/fax arrives from the Commission? No debate, chance to influence, modify, input - just do it.

Er, no! Quite the opposite. Are you suggesting that Switzerland do?

 

[NMH]

You literally talk gibberish

No, you
can't
understand
normal
thinking

 

[User removed 4]

No, you
can't
understand
normal
thinking

still gibberish, just presented differently

 

[NMH]

still gibberish, just presented differently

Sorry I can't put it in your language, but I never studied 'mong'.

 

[Brovion]

The point I'm making relates to the position of Switzerland, and the EEA member states btw, whereby it is a condition of their participation in the EU single market that they adopt the relevant EU legislation verbatum into national law. This legislation is notified to them by the EU Commission.

And the point I was making is that there isn't really any practical difference (vis a vis the relevant EU market legislation) between us and the Swiss - we too have to adopt it. Plus we have to adopt all the other 'stuff' as well. And if, as I stated, it's not our 'turn' on the streamlined Commission we won't even have a say in forming the legislation! (Don't forget there is no legislative programme as such in the EU parliament, it simply debates whatever the Commission decides).

So assuming we HAD to adopt the Swiss model and couldn't negotiate our own position, then yes, I accept the conditions. Not ideal obviously but it would be, imo, the lesser of the two evils.