Corbyn for the working class what a joke wake up people!

[glasfryn]

So you Have Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams (I have no like for either) in a room, you have two ways you can go; one is to take a confrontational posture, shout "no surrender" and walk out, the other is to talk (probably about how to start negotiating peace).
One route leads to more people getting shot & bombed, the other route might lead to peace. I know which one I'd like him to take.

Mo Molam knew as well

 

[Notters]

Corbyn , the Socialist , has just been on the radio telling us his vision of a Europe where we ALL share our wealth, now im pretty sure that a lot of working class people who would class themselves as socialists would baulk at sharing their wealth/resources with a people from another country , corbyn couldnt give a f*ck about BRITISH people , he has no sense of nationhood whatsoever .

We're all human. All skin, bone and DNA. What difference does it make if someone is British or not? I don't give a monkeys.

 

[Notters]

I never quite got the hang of patriotism.

I enjoy being English because of our ingrained sense of "everything is always a little bit rubbish even when it isn't really" and our love of a Sunday roast.

But I am English because I happened to be the one sperm that made it and I happen to have made it into a womb geographically positioned within the borders of the England. It's pot luck.

I'm no good with numbers but I imagine the odds of me being born a girl in Turkey were just as high as they were of me being born a bloke in Sussex.

Its pretty much for that reason that I can't get behind "I am English, hear me roar" beyond having a good moan up at the state of the trains.

Agree entirely with this. In fact, the only reason I think you can be patriotic about being English, or British, is where you, your country and its citizens help those from outside, which is precisely what we're talking about. Being part of a European project is therefore surely more patriotic than isolationism.

 

[spring hall convert]

Gordon Brown probably the exception to that theory.

Well not really, Brown was never elected as PM by the great British public. I think your theory holds a lot of water unfortunately.

 

[Stat Brother]

So you Have Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams (I have no like for either) in a room, you have two ways you can go; one is to take a confrontational posture, shout "no surrender" and walk out, the other is to talk (probably about how to start negotiating peace).
One route leads to more people getting shot & bombed, the other route might lead to peace. I know which one I'd like him to take.

It's such an odd response to what eventually became a negotiated peace agreement.

"look, look, that man was trying to negotiate peace 10-20 years earlier, he's clearly a wrong'un".

 

[spring hall convert]

You can say that again,

National Minimum Wage,
Record numbers of Police and Nurses,
A decade of sustained prosperity and economic stability,
The Good Friday Agreement and peace in Northern Ireland,
Paternity leave for fathers,
2,200 Sure Start Children’s Centres,
Banned fox hunting,
Free entry to national museums and galleries,
Cut long-term youth unemployment by 75%,
Reduced crime by 32%,


Absolutely WRECKED this country.

Ssssssshhhhh. No one wants FACTS. That's why they vote UKIP.

 

[NooBHA]

Well not really, Brown was never elected as PM by the great British public. I think your theory holds a lot of water unfortunately.

The reason I said that Gordon Brown was the exception to my theory was not because I thought he had been elected as Prime Minister. Instead the exception I acknowledged was his background and his education and upbringing being different from mine, even although he did hold the same views and values of myself.

 

[Grombleton]

I never quite got the hang of patriotism.

I enjoy being English because of our ingrained sense of "everything is always a little bit rubbish even when it isn't really" and our love of a Sunday roast.

But I am English because I happened to be the one sperm that made it and I happen to have made it into a womb geographically positioned within the borders of the England. It's pot luck.

I'm no good with numbers but I imagine the odds of me being born a girl in Turkey were just as high as they were of me being born a bloke in Sussex.

Its pretty much for that reason that I can't get behind "I am English, hear me roar" beyond having a good moan up at the state of the trains.

Agreed. I've found most people like that are generally lacking something in their lives. Probably a hug, but that'd be a bit too gay for them. I'd offer them a drink, but then i'd a horrible socialist.

 

[alfredmizen]

Wasn't he one of the first to champion a peace agreement in NI? Ultinately, talking is the only way to get things done in the long term.

No, he wasnt , Corbyn never took part in ANY of the peace talks that led to the good friday agreement , nor did he have any mandate to, he has (since he was elected labour leader) made mealy mouthed excuses about meeting the IRA to try to ''understand'' them , this is an outright lie , if he so wanted peace why did he never meet any of the loyalist paramilitaries ? Or if he was so concerned with peace why did he oppose the anglo irish agreement ? Stating in parliament ''Does the hon. Gentleman accept that some of us oppose the agreement for reasons other than those that he has given [i.e. Unionist]? We believe that the agreement strengthens rather than weakens the border between the six and the twenty-six counties, and those of us who wish to see a united Ireland oppose the agreement for that reason.'', peacemaker ?? dont make me laugh, terrorist supporter , its just expedient for him to deny it at present, the same way his stance on the EU has changed in the name of political expediency.

 

[alfredmizen]

We're all human. All skin, bone and DNA. What difference does it make if someone is British or not? I don't give a monkeys.

Then youre even more of an idiot than you normally appear , most of the world except does except people like you who live in pink fluffy world , and who usually end up with cruelly shattered illusions .

 

[alfredmizen]

So you Have Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams (I have no like for either) in a room, you have two ways you can go; one is to take a confrontational posture, shout "no surrender" and walk out, the other is to talk (probably about how to start negotiating peace).
One route leads to more people getting shot & bombed, the other route might lead to peace. I know which one I'd like him to take.

Corbyn never took part in ANY of the peace talks that led to the good friday agreement , nor did he have any mandate to, he has (since he was elected labour leader) made mealy mouthed excuses about meeting the IRA to try to ''understand'' them , this is an outright lie , if he so wanted peace why did he never meet any of the loyalist paramilitaries ? Or if he was so concerned with peace why did he oppose the anglo irish agreement ? Stating in parliament ''Does the hon. Gentleman accept that some of us oppose the agreement for reasons other than those that he has given [i.e. Unionist]? We believe that the agreement strengthens rather than weakens the border between the six and the twenty-six counties, and those of us who wish to see a united Ireland oppose the agreement for that reason.'', peacemaker ?? dont make me laugh, terrorist supporter , its just expedient for him to deny it at present, the same way his stance on the EU has changed in the name of political expediency.

 

[Buzzer]

Agreed. I've found most people like that are generally lacking something in their lives. Probably a hug, but that'd be a bit too gay for them. I'd offer them a drink, but then i'd a horrible socialist.

Hmm...patriotism = homophobia now, does it? Ah well, patriotic people get called just about every other insult, you might as well chuck in that as well. I've heard they also indulge in stupid stereotypes too because they'd rather demonise people they disagree with so they can feel better about themselves. What are they like, eh?

 

[Goldstone1976]

No, he wasnt , Corbyn never took part in ANY of the peace talks that led to the good friday agreement , nor did he have any mandate to, he has (since he was elected labour leader) made mealy mouthed excuses about meeting the IRA to try to ''understand'' them , this is an outright lie , if he so wanted peace why did he never meet any of the loyalist paramilitaries ? Or if he was so concerned with peace why did he oppose the anglo irish agreement ? Stating in parliament ''Does the hon. Gentleman accept that some of us oppose the agreement for reasons other than those that he has given [i.e. Unionist]? We believe that the agreement strengthens rather than weakens the border between the six and the twenty-six counties, and those of us who wish to see a united Ireland oppose the agreement for that reason.'', peacemaker ?? dont make me laugh, terrorist supporter , its just expedient for him to deny it at present, the same way his stance on the EU has changed in the name of political expediency.

Alf, you and I don't agree about much, I know, but on Corbyn's prior views on Ireland and his hypocrisy now about what those views once were, you're dead right. On Ireland, st least, Corbyn has demonstrated a profound volte face without having the decency or honour of even admitting that he's changed his position dramatically, let alone offering an explanation as to why he has. I suspect that the truthful answer would be "political expediency", which is disappointing, but hardly surprising (of just about any politician).

 

[alfredmizen]

Alf, you and I don't agree about much, I know, but on Corbyn's prior views on Ireland and his hypocrisy now about what those views once were, you're dead right. On Ireland, st least, Corbyn has demonstrated a profound volte face without having the decency or honour of even admitting that he's changed his position dramatically, let alone offering an explanation as to why he has. I suspect that the truthful answer would be "political expediency", which is disappointing, but hardly surprising (of just about any politician).

Cheers !!

 

[1066familyman]

No, he wasnt , Corbyn never took part in ANY of the peace talks that led to the good friday agreement , nor did he have any mandate to, he has (since he was elected labour leader) made mealy mouthed excuses about meeting the IRA to try to ''understand'' them , this is an outright lie , if he so wanted peace why did he never meet any of the loyalist paramilitaries ? Or if he was so concerned with peace why did he oppose the anglo irish agreement ? Stating in parliament ''Does the hon. Gentleman accept that some of us oppose the agreement for reasons other than those that he has given [i.e. Unionist]? We believe that the agreement strengthens rather than weakens the border between the six and the twenty-six counties, and those of us who wish to see a united Ireland oppose the agreement for that reason.'', peacemaker ?? dont make me laugh, terrorist supporter , its just expedient for him to deny it at present, the same way his stance on the EU has changed in the name of political expediency.

Personally I'd rather Corbyn just stuck to a pro united Ireland stance and an anti EU stance and be done with it. He'd have my full support on both of those stances, but I accept it might not make him or the party he represents very electable.

 

[Buzzer]

An alternative view from the Left. Apart from the likes of Cunning Fergus, Brovion, 1066FamilyMan and The Merry Prankster I don't think I've heard any of the lefties on here speak about the referendum in such a way i.e. from the point of view of the people they stand in solidarity with.

Brendan O'Neill

And rather remarkably this is from Tory John Hayes and I agree with absolutely every single word.

 

[Soulman]

An alternative view from the Left. Apart from the likes of Cunning Fergus, Brovion, 1066FamilyMan and The Merry Prankster I don't think I've heard any of the lefties on here speak about the referendum in such a way i.e. from the point of view of the people they stand in solidarity with.

Brendan O'Neill

And rather remarkably this is from Tory John Hayes and I agree with absolutely every single word.

Close to what i was saying last week.........the left, a rudderless ship with an absent captain.

 

[alfredmizen]

An alternative view from the Left. Apart from the likes of Cunning Fergus, Brovion, 1066FamilyMan and The Merry Prankster I don't think I've heard any of the lefties on here speak about the referendum in such a way i.e. from the point of view of the people they stand in solidarity with.

Brendan O'Neill

And rather remarkably this is from Tory John Hayes and I agree with absolutely every single word.

Ive just come back from 2 days in Seville , and its a FABULOUS place , i'd thoroughly recommend it for a city break, the people are lovely too, ive also this year spent 4 days in sorrento and a long weekend in ljubljana, but because i think we'd be better off out of the EU im a small minded little englander ( that i may be , but not because of my views on the EU ), thats why it wont break my heart if we stay in , i quite like the association with lovely places like seville.

 

[Buzzer]

Close to what i was saying last week.........the left, a rudderless ship with an absent captain.

I'm a right-winger and even I can see just how badly the EU has let down Greece and the young unemployed across Europe. How and why is it that so many lefties are so eager to virtue signal their metropolitan credentials that they choose to ignore what is happening to the poorest in theirs and other EU countries? Just what kind of socialism is it that they believe in that they would rather swallow the bullshit from corporations eager to manipulate markets and governments and to hell with what the working-class are saying?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Corbyn never took part in ANY of the peace talks that led to the good friday agreement , nor did he have any mandate to, he has (since he was elected labour leader) made mealy mouthed excuses about meeting the IRA to try to ''understand'' them , this is an outright lie , if he so wanted peace why did he never meet any of the loyalist paramilitaries ? Or if he was so concerned with peace why did he oppose the anglo irish agreement ? Stating in parliament ''Does the hon. Gentleman accept that some of us oppose the agreement for reasons other than those that he has given [i.e. Unionist]? We believe that the agreement strengthens rather than weakens the border between the six and the twenty-six counties, and those of us who wish to see a united Ireland oppose the agreement for that reason.'', peacemaker ?? dont make me laugh, terrorist supporter , its just expedient for him to deny it at present, the same way his stance on the EU has changed in the name of political expediency.

This. Notwithstanding our being in different parts of the sociopolitical spectrum. Possibly. Or perhaps its just our take on nuance. And our threshold for getting cross (mind you, I lost it with some other chaps the other evening, so who am I, etc. - my bad).

In my work environment, I have expressed myself a little too vehemently on occasion, about issues that are above my payscale, resulting in my being excluded from the inner circle. That's probably correct. Same for Corbyn, having made some naive decisions that in effect exclude him from ever being trusted with the red phone to Washington.

Hopefully we will see a few shifts in the political kaleidoscope in the next few years, with folk who marry principle with judgement rising to the top. Probably we don't yet know their names.

All the best.