Corbyn about to be sectioned methinks?

[Buzzer]

But isn't that the point!? Many soldiers on both sides {the Argentinians were conscripts poor buggers} died because the politicians had failed to sort things out. Do you want that to happen in the future again? Or would it not be better to get to a political solution {perhaps shared sovereignty or some kind of UN protectorate} that made sure no one else died

I want my politicians to explore every way of avoiding war not to engage in pathetic nationalism and xenophobia. Those days should be over

But there is nothing to discuss. Absolutely nothing. Under existing UN rules, the Falkland Islanders have the right to self-determination and very recently voted unanimously for staying British. It's not up to politicians to piss about with that or invent a solution to a problem that doesn't exist except in the eyes of the Argentinians.No-one ever need die again if Argentina respects both the wishes of the Falkland Islanders and the rule of international law.

Why is it okay for Corbyn to say he has a strong mandate to push through his will because he got something like 57% of the vote in his election but that he will ignore the will of 99.9% of Falkland Islanders just because Corbyn has an axe to grind about historical British policies?

 

[Aveacarlin']

But there is nothing to discuss. Absolutely nothing. Under existing UN rules, the Falkland Islanders have the right to self-determination and very recently voted unanimously for staying British. It's not up to politicians to piss about with that or invent a solution to a problem that doesn't exist except in the eyes of the Argentinians.No-one ever need die again if Argentina respects both the wishes of the Falkland Islanders and the rule of international law.

Why is it okay for Corbyn to say he has a strong mandate to push through his will because he got something like 57% of the vote in his election but that he will ignore the will of 99.9% of Falkland Islanders just because Corbyn has an axe to grind about historical British policies?

You do realise you are on NSC? Stop speaking sense please.

 

[ROSM]

This is definitely one for the politicos on here, it's a fascinating analysis of the Labour position now and where they are projected to be after the 2020 general election. It's based on the findings of Prof Tim Bale at Queen Mary Uni. and is, as far as I can tell, quite independent. It paints an extremely grim picture for Labour with calculated losses for the party of anywhere between 54 and 79 seats and a Tory majority of anywhere between 90 and 130.

http://publicpolicypast.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/so-how-are-labour-doing-now.html?m=1

Now, I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Tory but I don't think that outcome would be good for British democracy.

The trouble is that any debate with the corbynistas on information such as this gets turned into

- Shut up you redtory
- Blairite politics is dead
- We're carving a new style of politics
- The polls/media/voters are wrong

I cancelled my labour party membership as a result of many of the above exchanges - the only new kind of politics I am seeing is one that seems to think that persuading an electorate and winning elections isn't a key part of the strategy

 

[Moshe Gariani]

Why is it okay for Corbyn to say he has a strong mandate to push through his will because he got something like 57% of the vote in his election but that he will ignore the will of 99.9% of Falkland Islanders just because Corbyn has an axe to grind about historical British policies?

99.9% of barbers would vote for a ban on the sale of DIY hair clippers if it were possible...

I don't pretend to understand the complexities of the Falkland Islands situation but I do know I am not very persuaded by what the Islanders themselves would "like" to happen.

 

[Megazone]

You can't beat a NSC thread full of intellects.

So what's the outcome?

 

[Buzzer]

The trouble is that any debate with the corbynistas on information such as this gets turned into

- Shut up you redtory
- Blairite politics is dead
- We're carving a new style of politics
- The polls/media/voters are wrong

I cancelled my labour party membership as a result of many of the above exchanges - the only new kind of politics I am seeing is one that seems to think that persuading an electorate and winning elections isn't a key part of the strategy

I know a fair few Labour supporters who feel the same as you. The obvious problem with that paper I linked to and its conclusions is the unknowns that could pop up between now and 2020 that damage the Tory support. As much as I try, I just can't picture George Osborne as PM although he's the shoe-in. I'm not sure there will be an implosion over Europe though - the Tories always fight over Europe, there won't be any more defections IMO. The economy could take a big downturn but I'm not sure that would translate to people switching to Labour. If they didn't trust Ed Balls with the economy then they sure as hell won't want a Trotskyite like McDonnell in charge.

So who will they vote for? In an ideal world, this is where the Lib Dems should fill the void but they're in tatters. We're left with 3 alternatives: either a new centre-left party emerges (unlikely), people vote for single-issue or extremist parties or most likely, people don't bother at all.

 

[Soulman]

I want my politicians to explore every way of avoiding war not to engage in pathetic nationalism and xenophobia. Those days should be over

Why is it " pathetic nationalism and xenophobia", what has that got to do with the fact that Britain discovered the Falklands long BEFORE Argentina was a country. Argentina had no interest in the Falklands, the people on the island class themselves as British. It was the Argentinians that tried to take the Falklands, the British just defended it and as stated 99.9% of the islanders voted for it to stay British. Pretty clear cut.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Why is it " pathetic nationalism and xenophobia", what has that got to do with the fact that Britain discovered the Falklands long BEFORE Argentina was a country. Argentina had no interest in the Falklands, the people on the island class themselves as British. It was the Argentinians that tried to take the Falklands, the British just defended it and as stated 99.9% of the islanders voted for it to stay British. Pretty clear cut.

Even though 7% are Chilean...

 

[Buzzer]

I do know I am not very persuaded by what the Islanders themselves would "like" to happen.

I'm really not sure your analogy works. We're talking about self-determination, not some petty business advantage. Nanny knows best though, eh?

 

[Soulman]

Even though 7% are Chilean...

So you think the 7% Chilean would vote in favour of being Argentinian over the islands staying British. More likely they would vote on the British side, which is obviously what happened.

A referendum on political status was held in the Falkland Islands on 10–11 March 2013.[1][2][3][4] The Falkland Islanders were asked whether or not they supported the continuation of their status as an Overseas Territory of the United Kingdom in view of Argentina's call for negotiations on the islands' sovereignty.[5]

On a turnout of 91.94%, an overwhelming 99.8% voted to remain a British territory, with only three votes against.[6] Had the islanders rejected the continuation of their current status, a second referendum on possible alternatives would have been held.[5] Brad Smith, the leader of the international observer group, announced that the referendum was free and fair and executed in accordance with international standards and international law

 

[Buzzer]

You can't beat a NSC thread full of intellects.

So what's the outcome?

Please feel free to weigh in with some conspiracy theories if it's all too cut and dried for you.

 

[Megazone]

Please feel free to weigh in with some conspiracy theories if it's all too cut and dried for you.

Rosa shagged your cat.


(on a more serious note)

Jeremy Corbyn: 9/11 was 'manipulated'

In comments that will raise questions about his suitability to lead the Labour Party, Mr Corbyn appeared to blame George Bush and Tony Blair for using the September 11 attacks in New York to allow them to go to war

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...892383/Jeremy-Corbyn-911-was-manipulated.html


Section him!

 

[5mins-from-amex]

99.9% of barbers would vote for a ban on the sale of DIY hair clippers if it were possible...

I don't pretend to understand the complexities of the Falkland Islands situation but I do know I am not very persuaded by what the Islanders themselves would "like" to happen.

Why should the People of the Falklands not have the right of self determination?

 

[Soulman]

Why should the People of the Falklands not have the right of self determination?

Exactly. I would imagine that seeing as the Falklands has been British for many many many years, that their parents and grandparents were British. Surely 99.9% is a massive endorsement of how the people feel.

 

[ROSM]

I know a fair few Labour supporters who feel the same as you. The obvious problem with that paper I linked to and its conclusions is the unknowns that could pop up between now and 2020 that damage the Tory support. As much as I try, I just can't picture George Osborne as PM although he's the shoe-in. I'm not sure there will be an implosion over Europe though - the Tories always fight over Europe, there won't be any more defections IMO. The economy could take a big downturn but I'm not sure that would translate to people switching to Labour. If they didn't trust Ed Balls with the economy then they sure as hell won't want a Trotskyite like McDonnell in charge.

So who will they vote for? In an ideal world, this is where the Lib Dems should fill the void but they're in tatters. We're left with 3 alternatives: either a new centre-left party emerges (unlikely), people vote for single-issue or extremist parties or most likely, people don't bother at all.

I think if Teresa may became leader it would underline entirely the folly of corbyn. She would harangue him to an inch of his life. I too can't see Osborne as a successful PM but agree he will likely win

As for what happens to voters who leave labour now, I think some will go green, a similar would go lib dem but many more would just not vote. A drop from 31 to say 25% wouldn't be enough to really boost any other parties I fear.

There is more likelihood in my view of corbyn being subject to fratricide and being replaced by a stop gap who heads off total disaster in 2020.

 

[alfredmizen]

Even though 7% are Chilean...

Chilean descent yes, I served in the Army with one , I met a few when I was based in Port Stanley, they unfailingly regarded themselves as BRITISH, sorry to spoil your snide attempt at a dig, self hater that you are.

 

[alfredmizen]

99.9% of barbers would vote for a ban on the sale of DIY hair clippers if it were possible...

I don't pretend to understand the complexities of the Falkland Islands situation but I do know I am not very persuaded by what the Islanders themselves would "like" to happen.

Yet you would be all over the right to self determination were it someone else.

 

[Moshe Gariani]

Why should the People of the Falklands not have the right of self determination?

Because they got unlucky in the Game of Life...? They live on a small rocky island thousands of miles away from the place that they want to belong to. It is not a good state of affairs but these things happen. There are lots of people in the world far more disadvantaged.

 

[drew]

99.9% of barbers would vote for a ban on the sale of DIY hair clippers if it were possible...

I don't pretend to understand the complexities of the Falkland Islands situation but I do know I am not very persuaded by what the Islanders themselves would "like" to happen.

Why is it complex?

It was never occupied by the Argentinians. First discovered by the British, and then the French (who gave their bit to Spain). Their only claim is potentially on the basis of geography and if that is to form the basis of international law then maybe they should take over Chile or any other country they have a land border with.

 

[drew]

Because they got unlucky in the Game of Life...? They live on a small rocky island thousands of miles away from the place that they want to belong to. It is not a good state of affairs but these things happen. There are lots of people in the world far more disadvantaged.

Maybe they think you got unlucky in the game of life. If they didn't want to live there they'd move!

Perhaps you could explain why you think Argentina have a better claim.