[Football] Clubs to Vote on VAR removal

[Kinky Gerbil]

Is better pay the answer? Other nations don’t seem to have the same issues with implementing VAR….do they pay more?

It's an utter shambles in Spain.

Germany has had some howlers, think their refs are more open and explain things? Might work to calm some down

Italy has had goals ruled out for offside for the armpit being offside etc, which is a major complaint here.

Haven't watch too much CL football this year, but there has been awful calls in that as well.

 

[Psychobilly freakout]

It won't get binned as it gets more decisions right than wrong. It needs 14 clubs to vote it out and that ain't gonna happen! The top six won't vote for binning it that's a given apparently. Only needs 1 other to abstain and it ends the vote.

exactly this, this is lip service to the fans that is it, so they can turn round and say to the supporters, look we listened and tried, all the while knowing full well it won't go through, I mean it is a win, win for them.....

What could possibly go wrong eh.......

VARIT

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It would definitely help attract more people, and if there are more people and more competition for jobs that should drive a higher standard. It also feels a bit weird to have people on £100k a year lay down the law for people paid £100k a week. Is that not a bit wrong? If we expect the players to perform to a high standard and they are paid accordingly why not the referee?

In theory maybe, but the real world this does not always play out like this. We were also told making refs professional would improve standards but it didnt. I can only assume there is a cultural, training and/or procedural issue at play. Why is it that our european counterparts can impliment VAR way better than the EPL? This is not because they have better paid refs.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It's an utter shambles in Spain.

Germany has had some howlers, think their refs are more open and explain things? Might work to calm some down

Italy has had goals ruled out for offside for the armpit being offside etc, which is a major complaint here.

Haven't watch too much CL football this year, but there has been awful calls in that as well.

No nation is immune from errors. I am not saying this. But are these nations consistently as bad as the EPL? I am not aware of this, and Henry Winter seems to think the same and he has a lot of knowledge and experience on this matter.

 

[Reddleman]

I haven’t read the whole thread but a thought occurred to me today. Imagine if we hadn’t had VAR away to Sheffield United when Holgate assualted Mitoma and only got a yellow card. That would have been a travesty and so for incidents like that I think we still need VAR.

 

[crodonilson]

Wolves hit back as Liverpool and Man Utd move to kill off bid to scrap VAR

Exclusive: Chairman Jeff Shi warns Premier League will be damaged forever if clubs keep controversial system

www.telegraph.co.uk

As expected PL clubs privately fuming at Wolves.

 

[oldboyroy]

I haven’t read the whole thread but a thought occurred to me today. Imagine if we hadn’t had VAR away to Sheffield United when Holgate assualted Mitoma and only got a yellow card. That would have been a travesty and so for incidents like that I think we still need VAR.

Even the pen awarded against us v Chelsea which was rightly cancelled. So many things it does get right which is really why we need it. It needs to quicken up decisions, show the decisions on the screens to keep those paying in the loop and cut this stupid toe nail/ knee cap offside rubbish!

 

[MJsGhost]

I haven’t read the whole thread but a thought occurred to me today. Imagine if we hadn’t had VAR away to Sheffield United when Holgate assualted Mitoma and only got a yellow card. That would have been a travesty and so for incidents like that I think we still need VAR.

It's impossible to say.

IMO referees ref the games differently simply because VAR is there as a safety net.

I don't mind the odd mistake from officials as long as they are trying to control the game fairly. We get mistakes even with VAR, though there are fewer than without.

However, the big loss is the spontaneity and intensity of crowd reactions - there's always half an eye / a piece of your mind focussed on the possibility that someone's left bollock might have been half an inch offside in the build up.
There's also the dead time that drains atmosphere while VAR reviews take too long and everyone is kept in the dark.

I say bin VAR, but also:

• Have a big push (a proper, sustained one with significant penalties) for players & coaches to respect officials. A 10 min sin-bin, exclusively for dissent/surrounding the ref etc
• Training camps for refs so they are more consistent (this may happen already, but if so DO IT BETTER)
• Seminars/training sessions for commentators/media so they know the rules better and can help educate the fans (media not always being clear or consistent about the laws or their application in a situation doesn't help the hoo-har)
• Better communication around decisions (and the laws in general) from officials / POGMOL to remove the mystery and lessen the debate over what might be controversial decisions otherwise

It will still never be perfect as reffing relies on a human's assessment of a situation (where some if not all of the other humans involved are trying to deceive the ref), but I'll take that over a slightly more correctly reffed game that stops & starts, with less spontaneity and less atmosphere in general.

 

[Arthritic Toe]

I haven’t read the whole thread but a thought occurred to me today. Imagine if we hadn’t had VAR away to Sheffield United when Holgate assualted Mitoma and only got a yellow card. That would have been a travesty and so for incidents like that I think we still need VAR.

That's one incident.

Its like saying - Imagine if the titanic never sank. We'd never have got to see Kate Winslet's tits.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

That's one incident.

Its like saying - Imagine if the titanic never sank. We'd never have got to see Kate Winslet's tits.

Kate Winslet? She only ever kept them covered up if the script absolutely required it

 

[Arthritic Toe]

Kate Winslet? She only ever kept them covered up if the script absolutely required it

true - but it made the analogy scan better

 

[pigmanovich]

I haven’t read the whole thread but a thought occurred to me today. Imagine if we hadn’t had VAR away to Sheffield United when Holgate assualted Mitoma and only got a yellow card. That would have been a travesty and so for incidents like that I think we still need VAR.

Rhetorical question, I know, but we'd still be midtable and Sheffield Utd would still be headed for the Championship

 

[A1X]

I actually think once offsides are sped up through the new automated system that will take out a lot of the VAR issues, as offside is the thing that seems to take a ridiculously long time

I also think the likelihood of it being voted out of existence is nil

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

It's impossible to say.

IMO referees ref the games differently simply because VAR is there as a safety net.

I don't mind the odd mistake from officials as long as they are trying to control the game fairly. We get mistakes even with VAR, though there are fewer than without.

However, the big loss is the spontaneity and intensity of crowd reactions - there's always half an eye / a piece of your mind focussed on the possibility that someone's left bollock might have been half an inch offside in the build up.
There's also the dead time that drains atmosphere while VAR reviews take too long and everyone is kept in the dark.

I say bin VAR, but also:

• Have a big push (a proper, sustained one with significant penalties) for players & coaches to respect officials. A 10 min sin-bin, exclusively for dissent/surrounding the ref etc
• Training camps for refs so they are more consistent (this may happen already, but if so DO IT BETTER)
• Seminars/training sessions for commentators/media so they know the rules better and can help educate the fans (media not always being clear or consistent about the laws or their application in a situation doesn't help the hoo-har)
• Better communication around decisions (and the laws in general) from officials / POGMOL to remove the mystery and lessen the debate over what might be controversial decisions otherwise

It will still never be perfect as reffing relies on a human's assessment of a situation (where some if not all of the other humans involved are trying to deceive the ref), but I'll take that over a slightly more correctly reffed game that stops & starts, with less spontaneity and less atmosphere in general.

Re. the commentators/media, there's absolutely no excuse for them not knowing the rules. And it's blatantly obvious that most of them simply don't.

They should have to pass an exam on the rules before the start of the season before they're allowed on air. Partly to make sure they have at least some understanding, but mainly because I like the idea of Alan Shearer going down to one of those test centres where they do driving theory and CITB exams and being told he's failed because he's not quite got 85%, and needs to go away and brush up on Offside and The Start and Restart of Play.

 

[US Seagull]

FWIW, somebody posted this on reddit from The Athletic

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

I honestly don't care about the % of correct decisions improving which will be used an argument for VAR. I don't think ANYONE was asking for football to be fault free because any sensible person would have realised that was impossible to achieve in a game of opinions re tackles, handballs etc.

I think I speak for most when I say the one thing people wanted was the goal line tech. Definitive, factual and based on technology. No hold up in the game and pretty much impossible to argue(i say pretty much, as there was been one occurance I can think of where the camera's view was obscured?) . The game was improved for it and the fan experience wasn't remotely impacted.

VAR is a shambles. It was always going to be a shambles and, actually, it's proven even more of a shambles than I imagined, and I was SO anti-it.

All the things we thought would happen have.

-Offsides have become farcical. Spending more than 20 seconds to decide? Too close to worry about. Give the goal.
-We go through this bizarre dance where assistant refs don't put up their flag even though we ALL know the player was off to allow for VAR intervention. Madness.
-Handballs/tackles are being slowed down to 1/20th the speed and being assessed. "Oh look, he moved his hand towards the ball at the last second". Oh shut up, that was a split second and the ball was kicked at him from 3 yards away. He's not f***ing superman with lightning reactions.
-Fans who turn up to the stadium and pay their money are genuinely getting a worse experience than I am at home (It's much of the reason I've stopped going after 20 years).
-And the ultimate kicker why I've stopped. In a game where ONE GOAL is so crucial, will often decide the whole fixture, this SHAMBLES have taken away the sheer joy of celebrating. A goal goes in and I now think of it as an application to have scored. Now it just needs to be ratified by the authorities. The ball will go in and I won't cheer, instead I'll start saying "yeah, I think that's OK" or "Hmmm, I think there was a possible offside about 10 seconds beforehand so that'll need to be checked". To me, that is absolutely criminal, in a sport which, frankly, naff all can be happening and a single goal will decide. Madness.

 

[MJsGhost]

Re. the commentators/media, there's absolutely no excuse for them not knowing the rules. And it's blatantly obvious that most of them simply don't.

They should have to pass an exam on the rules before the start of the season before they're allowed on air. Partly to make sure they have at least some understanding, but mainly because I like the idea of Alan Shearer going down to one of those test centres where they do driving theory and CITB exams and being told he's failed because he's not quite got 85%, and needs to go away and brush up on Offside and The Start and Restart of Play.

It's not really in their employers' interest. They want stuff to talk about (whether they are correct or not) as that drives, interest, clicks, circulation, viewer numbers....

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

It's not really in their employers' interest. They want stuff to talk about (whether they are correct or not) as that drives, interest, clicks, circulation, viewer numbers....

All the more reason to broadcast the exams then.

 

[MJsGhost]

All the more reason to broadcast the exams then.

They could copy a long-standing and popular quiz format, with pundits forming teams from the clubs they are most associated with rather than universities.

"Universally Challenged"

Garth Crooks would be team captain for Spurs, obvs.

I'd watch that

 

[rippleman]

-We go through this bizarre dance where assistant refs don't put up their flag even though we ALL know the player was off to allow for VAR intervention. Madness.

This is where, sooner or later, the game is going to come seriously unstuck.

A clearly offside attacker breaks clear. The lino cba to stick his flag up. Keeper comes out and collides with the (offside) attacker. One or both suffer very serious injury. And all because the lino didn't flag.

It's only a matter of time. There have been a couple of close calls already.