Ched Evans

[Bold Seagull]

A shame you can't be more objective. Surely the point about justice is you consider both the prosecution and the defence. It might enlighten you or it might not, what have you got to lose?

I keep not wanting to get drawn into this one, but I have got to say in all this, Ched Evans especially wasn't short of a bob or two to ensure he had the best defence team money can buy. Would I be right in saying that through all your arguments, you must believe they did a very poor job? Are we saying they failed in their duty to their client to point out to the court some basic principles that must have been missed, or did they do the best they could but still the jury made it's decision based on the evidence presented? Presumably if they were a top legal team, then they would have years of successful defending behind them?

I haven't read his website, but am I right in saying he has a new legal team?

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

It beggars belief that you feel unable to look at one section of that website which has, as they state, undisputed facts. If you did, like Steve S. it might well raise questions to that the Evans site doesn't answer. Still, you seem to have dug your heels in so I'll try not to suggest it to you again.

Facts may be facts but context is also important as is what isn't said. If i stated the fact that the sky was always blue where i lived you might assume i lived somewhere sunny and warm but i might live in the north pole. Additionally i could be misleading you by saying the sky was always blue but missing out the fact that i couldn't always see it because there was cloud cover. A list of incomplete facts doesn't ever tell the whole story.

 

[keaton]

Not sure its a dangerous precedent. It just means you can't sneak into drunk girls rooms in the middle of the night.....

Bloody sharia law. First we weren't allowed to drink drive, now this, they'll be banning paedos soon

 

[Nathan]

New PFA Statement...

PFA statement on Ched Evans:
"We note Sheffield United's decision to retract the offer they made to Ched Evans for him to return to training with the club.
"It is not surprising given the subsequent delay in his return as the matter was debated and understandably strong opinions were aired. We fully understand and respect the opposing views to Ched's return to Sheffield United and clearly part of the issue related to him returning to the club he was previously with at the time of his imprisonment. With that in mind, it may ultimately be of benefit to both parties to move on and for Ched to look for a fresh start at a different club.
"We maintain our general position that the courts determine punishments and a return to society and a contribution to the community through employment is a key element of rehabilitation. We do not agree that society should impose different rules for footballers which go beyond the position of the law. In that regard, it is hoped that Ched will be given an opportunity at another club to return to the job he is trained to do."

What about teachers or doctors who would not be allowed back to the job they had before.

 

[aolstudios]

New PFA Statement...

PFA statement on Ched Evans:
"We note Sheffield United's decision to retract the offer they made to Ched Evans for him to return to training with the club.
"It is not surprising given the subsequent delay in his return as the matter was debated and understandably strong opinions were aired. We fully understand and respect the opposing views to Ched's return to Sheffield United and clearly part of the issue related to him returning to the club he was previously with at the time of his imprisonment. With that in mind, it may ultimately be of benefit to both parties to move on and for Ched to look for a fresh start at a different club.
"We maintain our general position that the courts determine punishments and a return to society and a contribution to the community through employment is a key element of rehabilitation. We do not agree that society should impose different rules for footballers which go beyond the position of the law. In that regard, it is hoped that Ched will be given an opportunity at another club to return to the job he is trained to do."

What about teachers or doctors who would not be allowed back to the job they had before.

& plenty of others

 

[dazzer6666]

Very common practice for a clean CRB check (or whatever it's called now) to be a pre-requisite before being employed. Given the public profile, community/charity work, exposure to youngsters etc no reason why footballers shouldn't be subject to this kind of requirement.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

New PFA Statement...

PFA statement on Ched Evans:
"We note Sheffield United's decision to retract the offer they made to Ched Evans for him to return to training with the club.
"It is not surprising given the subsequent delay in his return as the matter was debated and understandably strong opinions were aired. We fully understand and respect the opposing views to Ched's return to Sheffield United and clearly part of the issue related to him returning to the club he was previously with at the time of his imprisonment. With that in mind, it may ultimately be of benefit to both parties to move on and for Ched to look for a fresh start at a different club.
"We maintain our general position that the courts determine punishments and a return to society and a contribution to the community through employment is a key element of rehabilitation. We do not agree that society should impose different rules for footballers which go beyond the position of the law. In that regard, it is hoped that Ched will be given an opportunity at another club to return to the job he is trained to do."

What about teachers or doctors who would not be allowed back to the job they had before.

Aside from obvious professions like teaching I'm not convinced society has different sets of rules for convicted rapists.

 

[Husty]

That's not what Steve.S said. You've twisted what he posted.

Putting that aside, even if both parties are drunk and one says no, then it is no. If both explicitly say yes and then regret it in the morning, then that is not no, that is just something either party has to put down to experience. If one party is drunk and another party takes advantage when the first party is unable to give consent, then in the morning, that is no.

I agree with all of that, but I still don't come to the conclusion that this case rape.

 

[drew]

Facts may be facts but context is also important as is what isn't said. If i stated the fact that the sky was always blue where i lived you might assume i lived somewhere sunny and warm but i might live in the north pole. Additionally i could be misleading you by saying the sky was always blue but missing out the fact that i couldn't always see it because there was cloud cover. A list of incomplete facts doesn't ever tell the whole story.

I take it from your meteorological analogy that you haven't read the section on undisputed facts.

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

I take it from your meteorological analogy that you haven't read the section on undisputed facts.

I have read it several times, were they all undisputed by the prosecution? What is in there that makes you so suspicious? There are several things there that show her to be really quite drunk? Peeing in the street, CCTV showing her to be unsteady on her feet, forgetting her handbag and the pizza, falling over in kebab shop, slurring to porter. Added to that ched turns up uninvited, gets the keycard by lying and then sneaks out the back as soon as he is done.

Her friends saying she wasn't that drunk isn't probably very reliable as no doubt they were several sheets to the wind. Also I notice that the exact words of claytons text weren't recovered but hers to her friend was?

 

[Westdene Wonder]

A terrible crime for which he has been punished,would there be the same outrage if he returned say to shelf filling at ASDA?

 

[TheDuke]

Found guilty of a dreadful crime. Correctly punished by the laws of the land. When do we let the offender back in again? When has he paid his debt... is it never?

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

I take it from your meteorological analogy that you haven't read the section on undisputed facts.

Also 2 other points from that website, clayton states she wasn't slurring or stumbling yet the porter said she slurred and CCTV from town showed her unsteady. Added to that in the kebab shop Clayton saw her fall over so seems like he's lying there.

And looking at that video again I think she stumbles twice, once after she picks the pizza box up she puts her hand out to steady herself as she re-enters the hotel and also in the last few seconds as she walks through the foyer her head bobs lower than normal walking.

 

[dazzer6666]

A terrible crime for which he has been punished,would there be the same outrage if he returned say to shelf filling at ASDA?

Fellow employees may not be too pleased.....

 

[drew]

Her friends saying she wasn't that drunk isn't probably very reliable as no doubt they were several sheets to the wind. Also I notice that the exact words of claytons text weren't recovered but hers to her friend was?

How do you know they were drunk? She also admitted that she regularly drank more than she did that night. Would really help the debate if original transcript of the trial was available!!! Could find out if they were questioned as to how drunk they were or whether there was a dispute as to what Clayton's text may have said? Don't quite understand why it isn't unless it is to protect the identity of the girl. If that was the case, they could surely redact certain sections.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

This has become REALLY boring now.

Evans is a little shit. Get over yourselves.

 

[Driver8]

This wasn't the first time this girl had made this type of allegation. She must be very unlucky.

 

[nwgull]

This has become REALLY boring now.

Evans is a little shit. Get over yourselves.

Did someone force you to open the thread and read it?

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Did someone force you to open the thread and read it?

Yes, yes they did.

But it is still a tedious read.

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

How do you know they were drunk? She also admitted that she regularly drank more than she did that night. Would really help the debate if original transcript of the trial was available!!! Could find out if they were questioned as to how drunk they were or whether there was a dispute as to what Clayton's text may have said? Don't quite understand why it isn't unless it is to protect the identity of the girl. If that was the case, they could surely redact certain sections.

I didn't say they were, I said it was likely. We've been over the drinking thing before , drinking more on another occasion doesn't make you immune from the effects if you drink less. She went out straight from work so may not have eaten or been tired etc. send maybe on those other occasions she was looked after by someone.

What about my other points/questions you deleted when you quoted, you glossing over those because they make them look dodgy?