Ched Evans

[Del Fenner]

I understand he has always denied his guilty and is appealing. In his mind perhaps he doesnt need rehabilitation? I dont see why if he is released from prison why he cannot resume his career.

Because he is a convicted criminal who has not come to terms with his conviction. He needs to either accept the circumstances of his conviction, or successfully appeal against it. Insisting that he was innocent in the face of a serious conviction makes him an employer's nightmare.

 

[Nibble]

No, he hasn't. He is part of the way through his sentence and has been released on license. He is on parole. Which is an extraordinary thing as he still denies his guilt, so quite how he is engaging with rehabilitation is a complete mystery.

And for United to sign him up would be to send a clear message that a team's performance is more important than rape.

This this this. Dirty rapist, should still be in prison.

 

[Nibble]

I understand he has always denied his guilty and is appealing. In his mind perhaps he doesnt need rehabilitation? I dont see why if he is released from prison why he cannot resume his career.

It has been determined by jury that he raped that girl.He maintains that what he did wasn't wrong . Therefore he is a danger to women and should be locked up.

 

[tweenster]

Under the ROA his sentence is spent:
Where in respect of a conviction a person has been sentenced to imprisonment with an order under s. 47(1) of the M1Criminal Law Act 1977, he is to be treated for the purposes of subsection (2) above as having served the sentence as soon as he completes service of so much of the sentence as was by that order required to be served in prison.]

Under the ROA any club that does not employ him as a result of his conviction can be sued under that act.

a conviction which has become spent or any circumstances ancillary thereto, or any failure to disclose a spent conviction or any such circumstances, shall not be a proper ground for dismissing or excluding a person from any office, profession, occupation or employment, or for prejudicing him in any way in any occupation or employment.

I don't know where you got that from; my understanding of the Act (and its been a while since I was involved in this line of work so I accept that it may have changed) is that a custodial sentence over 4 years is never spent.

 

[Birdie Boy]

Why do they feel they should or need to take him back on? Is there not another player within Europe of equal or better ability than Evans that they can buy? Or is it just because they can get him cheap? I.e. "mate you've been inside, the going rate for your ability is £10k a week but as you have been inside, we will give you £5k, deal?"

 

[Tooting Gull]

It has been determined by jury that he raped that girl.He maintains that what he did wasn't wrong . Therefore he is a danger to women and should be locked up.

In fairness, that is twisting the facts and what has been said. He is not saying rape as a crime 'isn't wrong'. He is claiming it wasn't rape at all as it was consensual. Quite a difference, especially given you parole comment. Obviously he remains a convicted rapist until such time as he gets it overturned (unlikely).

The one thing I don't understand from those insisting Sheffield United/anyone else should not re-employ him is what they DO think should happen to him now. Should he never play again? Are they suggesting some arbitrary additional time-frame over and above the custodial sentence? Is it better that he goes on the dole? Never works again? Does work for a victim support charity? I'm just not clear exactly what is being suggested as an alternative if he shouldn't play again.

 

[Bold Seagull]

In fairness, that is twisting the facts and what has been said. He is not saying rape as a crime 'isn't wrong'. He is claiming it wasn't rape at all as it was consensual. Quite a difference, especially given you parole comment. Obviously he remains a convicted rapist until such time as he gets it overturned (unlikely).

The one thing I don't understand from those insisting Sheffield United/anyone else should not re-employ him is what they DO think should happen to him now. Should he never play again? Are they suggesting some arbitrary additional time-frame over and above the custodial sentence? Is it better that he goes on the dole? Never works again? Does work for a victim support charity? I'm just not clear exactly what is being suggested as an alternative if he shouldn't play again.

Erm, I did have some thoughts on that...

 

[drew]

Because he is a convicted criminal who has not come to terms with his conviction. He needs to either accept the circumstances of his conviction, or successfully appeal against it. Insisting that he was innocent in the face of a serious conviction makes him an employer's nightmare.

Whilst it is obvious that I think that there are questions to be asked about his actual conviction, I tend to agree with the above post. I don't have a problem with him training with Sheffield but would be uncomfortable if he was offered a contract to play before the CCRC and/or he appeal process is complete.

 

[Tooting Gull]

Erm, I did have some thoughts on that...

Some good ideas, but even in there you concede that the FA can't retrospectively go back and change it for the Evans case. Even if they changed the rules now about image of the game etc, it wouldn't legally be able to apply to him.

 

[Nibble]

In fairness, that is twisting the facts and what has been said. He is not saying rape as a crime 'isn't wrong'. He is claiming it wasn't rape at all as it was consensual. Quite a difference, especially given you parole comment. Obviously he remains a convicted rapist until such time as he gets it overturned (unlikely).

The one thing I don't understand from those insisting Sheffield United/anyone else should not re-employ him is what they DO think should happen to him now. Should he never play again? Are they suggesting some arbitrary additional time-frame over and above the custodial sentence? Is it better that he goes on the dole? Never works again? Does work for a victim support charity? I'm just not clear exactly what is being suggested as an alternative if he shouldn't play again.

They should sign him up but cap his pay at £400 a week. See how passionate he is about the game then.

 

[keaton]

In fairness, that is twisting the facts and what has been said. He is not saying rape as a crime 'isn't wrong'. He is claiming it wasn't rape at all as it was consensual. Quite a difference, especially given you parole comment. Obviously he remains a convicted rapist until such time as he gets it overturned (unlikely).

The one thing I don't understand from those insisting Sheffield United/anyone else should not re-employ him is what they DO think should happen to him now. Should he never play again? Are they suggesting some arbitrary additional time-frame over and above the custodial sentence? Is it better that he goes on the dole? Never works again? Does work for a victim support charity? I'm just not clear exactly what is being suggested as an alternative if he shouldn't play again.

I don't think a football club should employ him until he's been found innocent or until he has accepted his guilt, showed some remorse and done work to try and make amends. I felt the same way with McCormick and Lee Hughes

 

[glasfryn]

Why do they feel they should or need to take him back on? Is there not another player within Europe of equal or better ability than Evans that they can buy? Or is it just because they can get him cheap? I.e. "mate you've been inside, the going rate for your ability is £10k a week but as you have been inside, we will give you £5k, deal?"

making the case for him to sign for the Albion?

They should sign him up but cap his pay at £400 a week. See how passionate he is about the game then.

yep definitely coming to us then?

 

[Birdie Boy]

If a doctor was found guilty of abuse/rape/molesting etc. he will be struck off. He would then have to find a job as a painter and decorator or go back to India or something. The FA should have rules which state that any player found guilty of a crime (specific serious crimes) is forbidden from playing in the English FA/PL/FL. End Of.

 

[Birdie Boy]

making the case for him to sign for the Albion? NO!



yep definitely coming to us then?

^^^

 

[nicko31]

If a doctor was found guilty of abuse/rape/molesting etc. he will be struck off. He would then have to find a job as a painter and decorator or go back to India or something. The FA should have rules which state that any player found guilty of a crime (specific serious crimes) is forbidden from playing in the English FA/PL/FL. End Of.

What are you suggesting all doctors are Indian?

 

[marshy68]

It has been determined by jury that he raped that girl.He maintains that what he did wasn't wrong . Therefore he is a danger to women and should be locked up.

so there are no innocent people in prison?

 

[Nibble]

so there are no innocent people in prison?

When did I say that?

 

[marshy68]

You know not everyone can resume their career after a prison term. Many professions with their own codes of conduct will not allow a convicted criminal to return to their registers. You seem to be suggesting anyone who serves in prison can just return to their previous career's, but many cannot actually do that.

I think my point in all this is that the FA are there to protect a game that exists for the entertainment of fans pure and simple. It is a product that is sold worldwide, with huge investment and as a professional you sign up to a code of conduct that you should adhere to otherwise you harm the very profession that supports you - which Evans has undoubtedly done.

Now I accept the FA can't retrospectively introduce anything new to their code now, but it would be in line with many other professions to exclude a person following a criminal conviction. This doesn't have to be indefinitely, but given the FA can introduce bans for a variety of issues such as racism, drug abuse, gambling etc. that don't require the courts (think Cantona, Suarez etc.) they should be able to address their members bringing shame on themselves and their profession.

The FA for example could stipulate that regardless of any early release, any player convicted will be banned from all football for their full sentence. They could also require a player to serve some kind of community service / grassroots help to integrate them back into football (obviously not working with the young or vulnerable), but I'd have them helping the ground staff at the local recreation ground pitches for example, cutting the grass, marking out - a bit of a reality check if you like and a reminder of how lucky they are to have the gift of playing football for a living. If they can complete that service for a period, then perhaps we as supporters can feel they've 'earned' their right to entertain us again.

I just think walking out a convicted rapist straight back into professional football is not something the FA should be endorsing and should be protecting against.

How many times do you want to punish someone? He has served his sentence and is out on license, so if he nicks a pack of fags he will be back in the clink to serve the rest of his sentence. It is hard enough for anyone convicted of any crime when released from prison to find a job whatever their skills or previous career. Because of this holier than thou attitude alot of people will return to criminal ways - although this analogy doenst really work for rape, I am sure you see my point. If Evans can be gainfully employed playing football and contributing 40% of his earnings in tax surely thats better than him being unemployed, pilliored and being a drain on society rather than a net contributor?

 

[keaton]

How many times do you want to punish someone? He has served his sentence and is out on license, so if he nicks a pack of fags he will be back in the clink to serve the rest of his sentence. It is hard enough for anyone convicted of any crime when released from prison to find a job whatever their skills or previous career. Because of this holier than thou attitude alot of people will return to criminal ways - although this analogy doenst really work for rape, I am sure you see my point. If Evans can be gainfully employed playing football and contributing 40% of his earnings in tax surely thats better than him being unemployed, pilliored and being a drain on society rather than a net contributor?

I would assume with the money he's earned he wouldn't be able to claim benefits? That would suppose that any club that employed him wouldn't use the money on someone else

 

[Bold Seagull]

How many times do you want to punish someone? He has served his sentence and is out on license, so if he nicks a pack of fags he will be back in the clink to serve the rest of his sentence. It is hard enough for anyone convicted of any crime when released from prison to find a job whatever their skills or previous career. Because of this holier than thou attitude alot of people will return to criminal ways - although this analogy doenst really work for rape, I am sure you see my point. If Evans can be gainfully employed playing football and contributing 40% of his earnings in tax surely thats better than him being unemployed, pilliored and being a drain on society rather than a net contributor?

Did you actually read what I wrote? It's like you've answered someone else, or just assumed what I'd said.