Car tax discs scrapped after 93 years.

[Westdene Seagull]

Point 2 - So we should subsidise even further...? I don't think so.
Point 3 - If you say so, But I dont and I doubt the vast majority of people have consciously changed their driving style.

How much do you want the govermant to keep subsidising these various schemes?. The economy is very slowly starting to improve so to ask the goverment to support public transport and whatever else further is just not an option.

I'm not suggesting that the government should subsidise public transport any more than it already does - just that it does. If they didn't our bus services would be worse, there wouldn't be free bus passes for pensioners and your train ticket would be more.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

So, has the VED been scrapped or just the disc? and if just the disc, it'll be a lot easier to get away without paying?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

So, has the VED been scrapped or just the disc? and if just the disc, it'll be a lot easier to get away without paying?

Just the disc and you'll be able to pay by monthly direct debit. Contrary to popular belief the authorities don't look at a windscreen for proof that VED has been paid - instead they outsource the task to Equita ( part of the Capita group ) to check with roadside cameras. These cameras pick up a number plate and check the database to see if VED has been paid. I doubt very much this will change.

 

[Eksman]

Very happy we can do direct debit, not happy I have to work till I'm 70

 

[MissGull]

When the healthy life expectancy for men and women isn't past 64/65 making people work for longer than that surely is just going to incur more sick days and long term sick leave. A bigger burden for the economy and also still provides less jobs for 18 year olds because jobs are still being hung onto for so much longer.

 

[brakespear]

Isnt the point, not getting rid of the tax take but just a different collection process.

The costs remains, whichever way you collect it.

I don't drive, why should I pay extra for my groceries etc?

 

[father_and_son]

Wow... finding the debate on whether the VED should be scrapped to be massively ill thought out.

Firstly the VED and tax on fuel are not mutually exclusive... they both serve significant purposes... The tax you pay to own and use a car (or whatever motorised vehicle you are using) is set in surprisingly sensible way (which I'm sure is by accident).

The costs to society of you running a car can be considered as follows:
1. Fixed Cost - building cars, ensuring there are enough parking spaces, administering databases, etc can all be considered fixed costs which exist regardless of how much driving actually happens.
2. Variable Costs - the pollution to the environment, wear and tear on roads, etc are all variable costs - the more you drive, the more damage you do.

Therefore the funding for owning a car should come in two parts:
Fixed - VED. An annual fee to owning a car, no matter how much you use it (plus the one-off VAT charge when the car is first sold).
Variable - Fuel Duty. A tax based quite accurately on the amount of driving you do and how much you damage the environment.

If anything, I would have thought the balance was wrong and VED should increase (probably quite significantly, but across the board so no car is zero-rated), but with fuel duty coming down at the same time so the "average" driver in the "average" car doing "average" mileage pays the same (I have no data to back this up, but do think that the balance is wrong).

 

[BigGully]

I don't drive, why should I pay extra for my groceries etc?

Sorry, in what context ??

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Wow... finding the debate on whether the VED should be scrapped to be massively ill thought out.

Firstly the VED and tax on fuel are not mutually exclusive... they both serve significant purposes... The tax you pay to own and use a car (or whatever motorised vehicle you are using) is set in surprisingly sensible way (which I'm sure is by accident).

The costs to society of you running a car can be considered as follows:
1. Fixed Cost - building cars, ensuring there are enough parking spaces, administering databases, etc can all be considered fixed costs which exist regardless of how much driving actually happens.
2. Variable Costs - the pollution to the environment, wear and tear on roads, etc are all variable costs - the more you drive, the more damage you do.

Therefore the funding for owning a car should come in two parts:
Fixed - VED. An annual fee to owning a car, no matter how much you use it (plus the one-off VAT charge when the car is first sold).
Variable - Fuel Duty. A tax based quite accurately on the amount of driving you do and how much you damage the environment.

If anything, I would have thought the balance was wrong and VED should increase (probably quite significantly, but across the board so no car is zero-rated), but with fuel duty coming down at the same time so the "average" driver in the "average" car doing "average" mileage pays the same (I have no data to back this up, but do think that the balance is wrong).

You kind of shoot down your own argument though. VED is based on emissions - emissions are variable depending on how much you drive so will fall into the group you have numbered 2.

 

[Cian]

There's no need for an insurance disc as all cars insured ( bar a VERY few exceptions ) are on a database available to the authorities.

Fleet policies? I've had a policy stating "insured on all vehicles owned or leased by X" before, I doubt its that uncommon?

Northern Ireland will likely look to retain tax discs if they can as they've also got MOT discs (http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/your-mot-certificate) and want to bring in insurance discs, all to increase speed at checkpoints.

 

[willow147]

Hooray! It's such a faff remembering to get one each time.

Not exactly a faff for (hopefully) most people, you get sent a reminder automatically and then go online to renew, no more than 5 minutes effort.

I appreciate there are costs involved but, for us 'customers' the process is not hard.

 

[HAILSHAM SEAGULL]

There are certain car parks where disabled badge holders have to pay, unless their Road Tax disc has disabled on it. How are they going to implement this now.
Maybe all traffic wardens will patrol with I-Pads so they can check the DVLA computer.
That wont cost much!

 

[beorhthelm]

You have a point with new drivers, but for example someone who wanted a cheap motor could buy an old banger for £200 and end up paying more than that every year in VED, negating it as a cheap option. It's not just sports cars and 4x4's with high VED bands remember.

first off, anything older than 2001 or so is a flat rate VED, so regardless value of £200, £500 or £1000 the VED is the same. second, do you really think people will pay out thousands to get a newer less poluting car just to save £100-200? if they can only afford an old banger, thats what they'll be buying.

personally i dont see the fuss over a paper disc, they arent scrapping the duty as far as i can see. means lots of admin cockups where databases havent been updated properly when trying to get VED online/over the phone or still queing at the post office (not everyone has t'interwebs)

 

[MissGull]

Not exactly a faff for (hopefully) most people, you get sent a reminder automatically and then go online to renew, no more than 5 minutes effort.

I appreciate there are costs involved but, for us 'customers' the process is not hard.

I usually leave it to the last minute, plus my MOT expires at the same time, so I have to get that first. I'm crap at remembering to do all that sort of stuff.

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

Maybe all traffic wardens will patrol with I-Pads so they can check the DVLA computer.
That wont cost much!

They already have handheld PDAs which do the same thing. Good thing that its being done by Direct Debit too.

To those wanting VED removed - how will you then plug the HUGE gap in transport spending ? It would cost Billions !!

 

[dougdeep]

They already have handheld PDAs which do the same thing. Good thing that its being done by Direct Debit too.

Indeed. How else would they be able to check who had paid to park in the pay by phone areas?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

And, still we await an explanation of why a system whereby those that use the roads aren't the ones that pay for it?

Everyone uses the roads. Even pedestrians.

And we all pay for the roads - out of general taxation. Quite right, too.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

They already have handheld PDAs which do the same thing. Good thing that its being done by Direct Debit too.

To those wanting VED removed - how will you then plug the HUGE gap in transport spending ? It would cost Billions !!

Care to back that statement up with evidence ?

£60bn is raised with VED each year and £912,500,000 litres a year of fuel sold. That would add about 2.5p a litre.

 

[MissGull]

Think DD will be massive uptake, and hopefully will persuade those who currently avoid tax to join in!

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Why? VED is based on the CO2 emissions of the vehicle. As others have already stated this doesn't take into account the actual emissions, which only come from the amount the vehicle is driven. There's already government manipulation of fuel price for users they consider to be of national importance - that's why red diesel exists. If VED were abolished and fuel duty increased there's no reason the government could not subsidise users in public transport, and some road haulage if necessary. It would act to encourage less driving, and more economical vehicle use.

If you actualy beleive what you have just posted im affraid you are deluded!
1- Yes Red diesel exists, for agricultural use. How man petrol stations do you see in the centre of a city selling Red Diesel?
2-Goverment subsiding public transport?? Ha Ha - Good luck with that one
3- Encourage less driving + Better driving. Why? How? I dont know anybody who has changed their driving style over the few price increases we just suffer it and get on with it...

The government does have a system of subsidising bus services by reducing the fuel costs that the services would otherwise incur. Currently there is a basic rebate of 34.57 pence per litre paid to the operators of qualifying local bus services. The system of making these rebates will, however, change next year.