Call me racist, but...
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Superphil
Dismember
Looney, I wasn't discriminating about violence, If a Muslim kills me in a suicide bombing, that is not going to be religiously motiviated, it's going to be violent murder, because he is not going to know what my religion is.
And before anyone else comments, yes I said Muslim suicide bomber, I'm not aware of any Bhudist Suicide bombers, or Christian, or Hells Angels for that matter.
And before anyone else comments, yes I said Muslim suicide bomber, I'm not aware of any Bhudist Suicide bombers, or Christian, or Hells Angels for that matter.
Superphil
Dismember
Fair point which I accept.
but I still won't be happy about it if it happens.
Incidently, how does it work then, if a suicide bomber kills other muslims, is that just part of Gods work? Are they unfortunate, do they go to the land of virgins? or are they considered unholy?
but I still won't be happy about it if it happens.
Incidently, how does it work then, if a suicide bomber kills other muslims, is that just part of Gods work? Are they unfortunate, do they go to the land of virgins? or are they considered unholy?
looney
Banned
- Jul 7, 2003
- 15,652
Superphil said:
The fundementalists see muslims in non muslim countries(House of caos) as colaborators so no problem. Other muslims as well as fundementalists veiw it as wrong as muslim immigration is about the "Silent Jihad", move to west ,Breed, convert etc. a bit controdictory. Islam also makes the distinction between killing a beleiver and a kafur. Fundementalists beleive that peaceful western muslims are all currupted and therfor kafur.
Moderate muslims see it as wrong for a variety of reasons including the silent jihad.
They all beleive, like christians, its all gods doing/will. Nothing special in that.
Superphil
Dismember
Jesus, some of those people really are screwed up in the head aren't they.
Superphil said:
Suicide bombing as a tactic in the modern age was first used by Tamil terrorists in the Sri Lankan conflict and, until, relatively recently the majority of suicide bombers were Tamil. So we should be talking about Hindu suicide bombers really.
Of course, the progenitors of suicide bombers were the Japanese kamikaze pilots of the Second World War. And no, they weren't Muslims either. There were also troops of Vietnamese suicide bombers in the war against the French in the 50s.
The tactic has an even older history - the ultra-Christian Knights Templar blow up their own ship to destroy a Muslim stronghold in the Crusades.
So, there are plenty of instance of non-Muslim suicide bombers yet you again choose to single out Muslims.
Superphil
Dismember
Jesus, I'm talking about what is going on RIGHT NOW. As we sit here in our comfortable chairs, playing with computers, there are people using the faith of Islam to comit acts of religious violence and kill innocent people. These people call themselve Muslims and they are the people doing these vile acts.
In the past you are probably right, others did do it, but they don't now, largely because they have learnt that it does not acheive the desired effect. The current acts of violence and murder are specifically muslim.
I am not singling out muslim, I am talking about the current state of affairs, and sadly, there is only one group doing these things right now.
Muslim is one of the main religions of the Tamil people (after Hindi and Christianity), so who is to say the Tamil suicide bombers were not muslim also. I wasn't talking about Hindu, I mentioned Bhudists.
As for Japanese and Vietnamese suicide bombers, both carried out these acts against other military targets engaged in official [sic] wars. The current trend seems to be to try and kill innocent people trying to live their lives as well as millitary targets.
As I said, these people seem sick in the head.
Incidently, the Tamils do cartoons if anyone's interested http://www.tamilnet.com/cat.html?catid=94
In the past you are probably right, others did do it, but they don't now, largely because they have learnt that it does not acheive the desired effect. The current acts of violence and murder are specifically muslim.
I am not singling out muslim, I am talking about the current state of affairs, and sadly, there is only one group doing these things right now.
Muslim is one of the main religions of the Tamil people (after Hindi and Christianity), so who is to say the Tamil suicide bombers were not muslim also. I wasn't talking about Hindu, I mentioned Bhudists.
As for Japanese and Vietnamese suicide bombers, both carried out these acts against other military targets engaged in official [sic] wars. The current trend seems to be to try and kill innocent people trying to live their lives as well as millitary targets.
As I said, these people seem sick in the head.
Incidently, the Tamils do cartoons if anyone's interested http://www.tamilnet.com/cat.html?catid=94
London Irish
Well-known member
Uncle Spielberg said:
f***ing Christians. And people think we can negotiate with these people
- they may as well come from Mars.
Juan Albion
Chicken Sniffer 3rd Class
Uncle Spielberg said:
And I've heard of Brighton fans who think the best place for a new stadium is Pende.
London Irish
Well-known member
Commander said:
Educate yourself fella.
www.spur.asn.au/chronology_of_suicide_bomb_attacks_by_Tamil_Tigers_in_sri_Lanka.htm
Suicide bombers are generally a military tactic by the weak and powerless. There often is religion involved, that's true, but it is not Muslim-specific.
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London Irish said:
The page cannot be found
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Open the www.spur.asn.au home page, and then look for links to the information you want.
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London Irish
Well-known member
The hyperlink doesn't work, ignoramus.Commander said:LEARN TO USE A COMPUTER
But here for your benefit:
Deadly suicide attack on Sri Lanka navy, killing 13 Sailors
Sunday, 08 January 2005 (Melbourne) : A nearly 4-year-old cease-fire between the Sri Lankan government and Tamil Tiger rebels is coming under pressure after at least 13 sailors were killed when an explosives-laden boat rammed into a Sri Lankan navy vessel early Saturday, 07 January 2005. The 24-foot navy vessel sank shortly after the explosion, which happened shortly after midnight. All 15 sailors on board were initially presumed dead, but fisherman found two survivors clinging to wreckage shortly after sunrise Saturday morning.
RESCUE OPERATIONS conducted aftermath of Tamil Tiger (LTTE) pre-dawn attack Saturday (07) morning in the seas off FOUL POINT, TRINCOMALEE were able to salvage two sailors of a total of fifteen who went missing after Tamil Tigers (LTTE) terrorists blew up a Naval vessel Fast Attack Craft (FAC). A huge explosion trigged off by Sea Tigers after their gradual approach towards the Naval Craft mingled with fishing boats in small hours on Saturday (07) at about 1.00 a.m. blew up this Naval vessel with fifteen sailors on board. Initial reports revealed that all sailors aboard had gone missing but subsequent rescue operations rescued two of them afterwards. However, the whereabouts of other thirteen sailors who had gone missing after the deadly attack are yet to be traced.
Naval rescue operations are in progress.
Chronology of Suicide Bomb Attacks by LTTE Tamil Tiger Terrorists in Sri Lanka
Following are the major suicide carried out by LTTE Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka:
January 07, 2005 - Deadly suicide bomb attack on Sri Lanka navy - Tensions escalate after apparent suicide attack on vessel - A nearly 4-year-old cease-fire between the Sri Lankan government and Tamil Tiger rebels is coming under pressure after at least 13 sailors were killed when an explosives-laden boat rammed into a Sri Lankan navy vessel early Saturday. The 24-foot navy vessel sank shortly after the explosion, which happened shortly after midnight. All 15 sailors on board were initially presumed dead, but fisherman found two survivors clinging to wreckage shortly after sunrise Saturday morning
July 07, 2004 in Colombo - Tamil Tigers terrorize Sri Lanka’s capital, Colombo again - Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) had launched their first suicide attack this noon today right in the heart of the capital city of Colombo, since the ceasefire agreement signed two years ago with Tamil Tigers. Meanwhile, Peace Talks to end Sri Lanka's civil war have been on hold for more than a year. Government and the LTTE have been observing the Norwegian-brokered CFA signed in February 2002. The Tamil rebel outfit had terrorized the capital Colombo with numerous suicide bomb attacks during last two decades. LTTE Monday marked "Black Tiger Day" to commemorates their suicide cadres. The police said that the target of the attack would be Cabinet Minister and Ealam Peoples Democratic Party (EPDP) leader Douglas Devananda. EPDP is a rival party to LTTE. According to reports, CID, Anti Terrorism Unit, and the Crime Detection Bureau have started intensive investigations into the incident. Government analyst is investigating the blast (full report in Asian Tribune).
July 07, 2004 in Colombo - Five policemen killed when a suspected LTTE women human bomb exploded - Five police officers are reported to be dead at the bomb explosion occurred at noon today inside the Colpetty police station. One police officer dead, has been identified as E.M. Ekanayake – Inspector of Police. Director of the Colombo Accident Ward Dr. Anil Jasinghe said that eleven injured (three were critically injured) people are undergoing treatment at the Colombo National Hospital. There are police personnel and civilians among them. An officer of the Colpetty police said the bomb exploded when the police attempted to check a suspected woman. The woman was reported to be loitering in front of the office of Minister Douglas Devananda, which is situated near the police station. On suspicion the police had taken her to the police station for questioning where the woman had blown herself. CID, Anti Terrorism Unit, and Crime Detection Bureau have started wide investigations into the incident (full report in Asian Tribune).
July 07, 2004 in Colombo- Five die as suicide blast rocks Sri Lanka capital - By Lindsay Beck. COLOMBO (Reuters) - At least five people were killed and 11 wounded when a suspected Tamil Tiger suicide bomber blew herself up inside a police station in the Sri Lankan capital on Wednesday, shattering more than two years of relative peace. Police said the woman detonated the bomb as she was being frisked, but that the target was government minister Douglas Devananda, a Tamil who is a vocal opponent of the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE). "A female has gone into the ministry of Douglas Devananda and wanted to meet him... Permission was not granted. People from ministerial security followed her and these officials took her into the police station. While they (police) tried to search her she exploded herself," said police spokesman Rienzie Perera. "It is obvious Douglas was the target," he said. (Full report in Reuters News)
July 07, 2004 in Colombo - Suicide Bomb Attack in Sri Lanka Kills Five People - July 7 (Bloomberg) -- A woman suicide bomber killed herself and four police officers in an attack on a police station near the Sri Lankan prime minister's official residence in the capital, Colombo, a police spokesman said. The blast, which injured 11 other officers, took place at around 12:30 p.m. in Colombo. The station is near the U.K and U.S. embassies. The woman ``was being searched in the police station after being arrested and blew herself up and the lady searching her,'' Rienzie Perera, the police spokesman, said in a telephone interview in Colombo.(Full report inBloomberg.Com)
Noverner 15, 2001 in Batticaloa - LTTE suicide bomber kills three and injures nine in Batticaloa A LTTE Tamil Tiger suicide bomber detonated a powerful bomb and killed three soldiers who went to Batticaloa town to purchase some personal needs this morning around 10.30 AM. Eight civilians and another soldier were injured and had been rushed to the Batticaloa hospital for treatment following the incident. The suicide bomber, who mingled with ordinary people, has not yet been identified.
London Irish
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #57
London Irish said:
I said "So when was the last time you heard about a non-muslim suicide bomber? I mean recently?"
You told me. How does that make me ignorant?
LI, do you or dont you think that this practice by Shia muslims is ridiculous? And I don't care if Christians, Jews or Martians do anything similar, I am talking about what is at the beginning of thethread.
London Irish
Well-known member
Some more historical background for Commader Dunce, this time from Wikipedia.
The concept of self-sacrifice has long been a part of war. From the earliest days of honoring fallen soldiers as heroes, those who sacrifice themselves to further a political, moral, or cultural ideology have been and are still highly regarded figures in their respective societies. Soldiers who lay down their lives to protect their comrades are commonly awarded the highest recognition for courage in battle, while those who survive combat are honored for their physical and psychological sacrifice. An example for such self-sacrifice in warfare in medieval legend is Arnold von Winkelried. The earliest reference of a suicide attack outside a context of warfare is the biblical story of Samson:
And Samson said, 'Let me die with the Philistines!' And he bowed himself with all his might; and the house fell upon the lords, and upon all the people that were therein. So the dead which he slew at his death were more than they which he slew in his life. (Judges 16:30)
During the Crusades, the Knights Templar destroyed one of their own ships, killing 140 Christians in order to kill ten times as many Muslims. Another early example of suicide bombing occurred during the Belgian Revolution, when the Dutch Lieutenant Jan van Speijk detonated his own ship in the harbour of Antwerp to prevent being captured by the Belgians.
The act of deliberately destroying oneself to inflict harm on an enemy is more restricted to modern times and the era of explosives. The line between the two is considered by some a matter of subjectivity, as in the argument that many WWII soldiers killed were "martyrs" (in the sense that they were to suffer for the sake of a principle, rather than dying as the penalty for refusing to renounce a belief) because their life expectancy in combat was very low—often averaging only two or three months.
The ritual act of self-sacrifice during combat appeared in a large scale at the end of World War II with the Japanese kamikaze bombers. In these attacks, airplanes were used as flying bombs. Later in the war, as Japan became more desperate, this act became formalized and ritualized, as planes were outfitted with explosives specific to the task of a suicide mission. Kamikaze strikes were a weapon of symmetric war used by the Empire of Japan chiefly against United States Navy aircraft carriers.
The Japanese Navy also used both one and two man piloted torpedoes called kaiten on suicide missions. Although sometimes called midget submarines, these were modified versions of the unmanned torpedoes of the time and are distinct from the torpedo-firing midget submarines used earlier in the war, which were designed to infiltrate shore defences and return to a mother ship after firing their torpedoes. Though extremely hazardous, these midget submarine attacks were not technically suicide missions; while the early kaiten were equipped with escape hatches, there is no evidence that they were ever used or that the pilots had any intention of using them. Later kaitens, by contrast, provided no means of escape.
After aiming a two-person kaiten at their target, the two crew members traditionally embraced and shot each other in the head. Social support for such choices was strong, due in part to Japanese cultural history, in which seppuku, honorable suicide, was part of samurai duty. It was also fostered and indoctrinated by the Imperial program to persuade, often through coercion (such as through doping), the Japanese soldiers to commit these acts.
Following World War II, Viet Minh "death volunteers" were used against the French colonial army.
In 1972 in the hall of the Lod airport in Tel-Aviv (Israel), three Japanese used grenades and automatic rifles to kill 26 people and wound more than a hundred. The group belonged to the Japanese Red Army (JRA) a terrorist organization created in 1969 and allied to the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP). Until then, no group involved in terrorism has previously conducted such a suicide operation in Israel. Other members of the JRA became instructors in martial art and Kamikaze operations at several Hezbollah training camps bringing the suicide techniques to the middle-east.
The concept of self-sacrifice has long been a part of war. From the earliest days of honoring fallen soldiers as heroes, those who sacrifice themselves to further a political, moral, or cultural ideology have been and are still highly regarded figures in their respective societies. Soldiers who lay down their lives to protect their comrades are commonly awarded the highest recognition for courage in battle, while those who survive combat are honored for their physical and psychological sacrifice. An example for such self-sacrifice in warfare in medieval legend is Arnold von Winkelried. The earliest reference of a suicide attack outside a context of warfare is the biblical story of Samson:
And Samson said, 'Let me die with the Philistines!' And he bowed himself with all his might; and the house fell upon the lords, and upon all the people that were therein. So the dead which he slew at his death were more than they which he slew in his life. (Judges 16:30)
During the Crusades, the Knights Templar destroyed one of their own ships, killing 140 Christians in order to kill ten times as many Muslims. Another early example of suicide bombing occurred during the Belgian Revolution, when the Dutch Lieutenant Jan van Speijk detonated his own ship in the harbour of Antwerp to prevent being captured by the Belgians.
The act of deliberately destroying oneself to inflict harm on an enemy is more restricted to modern times and the era of explosives. The line between the two is considered by some a matter of subjectivity, as in the argument that many WWII soldiers killed were "martyrs" (in the sense that they were to suffer for the sake of a principle, rather than dying as the penalty for refusing to renounce a belief) because their life expectancy in combat was very low—often averaging only two or three months.
The ritual act of self-sacrifice during combat appeared in a large scale at the end of World War II with the Japanese kamikaze bombers. In these attacks, airplanes were used as flying bombs. Later in the war, as Japan became more desperate, this act became formalized and ritualized, as planes were outfitted with explosives specific to the task of a suicide mission. Kamikaze strikes were a weapon of symmetric war used by the Empire of Japan chiefly against United States Navy aircraft carriers.
The Japanese Navy also used both one and two man piloted torpedoes called kaiten on suicide missions. Although sometimes called midget submarines, these were modified versions of the unmanned torpedoes of the time and are distinct from the torpedo-firing midget submarines used earlier in the war, which were designed to infiltrate shore defences and return to a mother ship after firing their torpedoes. Though extremely hazardous, these midget submarine attacks were not technically suicide missions; while the early kaiten were equipped with escape hatches, there is no evidence that they were ever used or that the pilots had any intention of using them. Later kaitens, by contrast, provided no means of escape.
After aiming a two-person kaiten at their target, the two crew members traditionally embraced and shot each other in the head. Social support for such choices was strong, due in part to Japanese cultural history, in which seppuku, honorable suicide, was part of samurai duty. It was also fostered and indoctrinated by the Imperial program to persuade, often through coercion (such as through doping), the Japanese soldiers to commit these acts.
Following World War II, Viet Minh "death volunteers" were used against the French colonial army.
In 1972 in the hall of the Lod airport in Tel-Aviv (Israel), three Japanese used grenades and automatic rifles to kill 26 people and wound more than a hundred. The group belonged to the Japanese Red Army (JRA) a terrorist organization created in 1969 and allied to the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP). Until then, no group involved in terrorism has previously conducted such a suicide operation in Israel. Other members of the JRA became instructors in martial art and Kamikaze operations at several Hezbollah training camps bringing the suicide techniques to the middle-east.
London Irish
Well-known member
Commander said:
Because it would have taken you 5 seconds on Google to find out for yourself, the same time it took me. Yet your statement was worded to infer that only Muslims were suicide bombers in the modern era. IGNORANCE!