Britain and our place in world football

[Czechmate]

I really don't know what the answer is , the thing that gets me is that young players are not allowed to develop their own skills , their natural talent . The players are taken at an earlier and earlier age to large clubs and even the England team centre . Are we not stifling their own separate talents ? are these centres too clinical and the training is the same whoever the player is for that position so everyone is taught the same skills , do we concentrate too much on the science of football so when we play 1st class games the playing skills are very similar as this is what the players are taught and it is hard to play another way and makes us so predictable ? I think the majority of young players would be better letting their own skills come through first then at a later age take them into the centres .

 

[BigGully]

The amount of money swilling around football in this country is destroying the game.

Players don't give a shit any more. Coonor Wickham had an average season. Sent out on loan because he wasn't good enough then scored a few goals at the arse end of the season. He's on over a MILLION quid a year. It's ****ing insane.

A player on £20,000 a week could have a nightmare, score 2 own goals and get sent off, but STILL pocket his £20k.

Until the money side of things is reined in, we've got no chance. Players measure their success by the size of their cars and how they splash their cash, rather than their performances.

Why can't their wages be properly performance-related?

The money paid to Conor Wickham isnt really the problem, it is just an indication of how we revere oversized athletic youngsters that then develop into Conor Wickham the footballer.

 

[Hiney]

The money paid to Conor Wickham isnt really the problem, it is just an indication of how we revere oversized athletic youngsters that then develop into Conor Wickham the footballer.

I understand that, I just used him as an example because his spending has been in the news recently. You could choose any number of 18-year-old starlets at any number of Premier League Academies that are on ridiculous wages.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Sterling, Sturridge, Barkely, Walcott, Wilshere, Oxlade Chamberlain, Llalana, Rodriguez.

These players seem some way off similarly aged young players in other nations though. Walcott is 25, Wilshere 23, Sturridge 24. Other nations have players of these ages which are delivering on the world-stage already. I just have a feeling the three I mention will end up busted flushes like Ronney. Do people really think Wilshere is going to get better? If so why?

 

[Hillian1]

These players seem some way off similarly aged young players in other nations though. Walcott is 25, Wilshere 23, Sturridge 24. Other nations have players of these ages which are delivering on the world-stage already. I just have a feeling the three I mention will end up busted flushes like Ronney. Do people really think Wilshere is going to get better? If so why?

Sadly true.

Sterling however could be very good, but then I thought Zaha would be turn into a world beater, so it show's what I know.

 

[Gullflyinghigh]

What makes you believe that other nations players chose to play in other leagues purely for the experience rather than the fact that where they go may well be the biggest pay deal on offer at the time they sign or that they see it as a stepping stone to a bigger pay cheque, ie putting yourself in the shop window of European football.

I don't believe that they do, nor did I say that I did.

I don't doubt that for many it's the paycheck or the prestige that make the player want to move on the first place, but they would still be gaining the experience of playing abroad regardless of reason for being there.

As I said, I don't really know whether playing abroad benefits a player's development, merely that it could be a factor. If you look at some of the best players at the World Cup who play non-domestically (Robben, Rodriguez, Suarez, Neymar), ask whether they're the best because they play abroad, or, are they sought out because they're that good to begin with? It's tough to prove either way.

 

[crodonilson]

International football is, unfortunately, second rate now anyway. The players know this, which is why players in second rate international teams play to their maximum to get a chance to move to a premium tier team in the three main leagues. It's a shame, but the WC is no longer the pinnacle of world football, the CL is.

Baloney.

There were plenty saying this before the WC but I think the quality and sheer entertainment factor in this WC has put that one to bed. I can't seriously think any footballer would prefer to win a CL over a WC.

 

[KZNSeagull]

I don't believe that they do, nor did I say that I did.

I don't doubt that for many it's the paycheck or the prestige that make the player want to move on the first place, but they would still be gaining the experience of playing abroad regardless of reason for being there.

As I said, I don't really know whether playing abroad benefits a player's development, merely that it could be a factor. If you look at some of the best players at the World Cup who play non-domestically (Robben, Rodriguez, Suarez, Neymar), ask whether they're the best because they play abroad, or, are they sought out because they're that good to begin with? It's tough to prove either way.

Very few English players have played abroad though, this is not just a recent phenomenon. Only the very gifted have done so (Gazza, Lineker, Waddle, Hoddle, Laurie Cunningham(!), Owen etc) and those with a brand (Beckham).

I would suggest it is because generally, English players are not good enough. In my times watching world cups, only 2 Englishmen have shined at finals - Gazza and Michael Owen. They both ended up abroad. Plus nowadays with the money in the EPL, any gifted English player has even less incentive to go abroad even if they were good enough.

 

[beorhthelm]

The amount of money swilling around football in this country is destroying the game.

yet the money swilling around the top clubs in Spain and Germany hasnt destroy theirs. its not about the money.

 

[Mellotron]

I agree that we are 2nd tier, but I don't see why it should be depressing? If anything I think it's better to have lower expectations - sort of like "Would you rather be in the Premiership but get bummed every week or be competitive in the Championship." Let's accept our status, and try to enjoy it a bit more. That's another problem. Our players look like they're absolutely hating it, and it's SO serious. Watch teams like Chile and Colombia, they're bloody LOVING it. It's meant to be FUN.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I agree that we are 2nd tier, but I don't see why it should be depressing? If anything I think it's better to have lower expectations - sort of like "Would you rather be in the Premiership but get bummed every week or be competitive in the Championship." Let's accept our status, and try to enjoy it a bit more. That's another problem. Our players look like they're absolutely hating it, and it's SO serious. Watch teams like Chile and Colombia, they're bloody LOVING it. It's meant to be FUN.

True. Steven Gerrard especially.

 

[Gullflyinghigh]

Very few English players have played abroad though, this is not just a recent phenomenon. Only the very gifted have done so (Gazza, Lineker, Waddle, Hoddle, Laurie Cunningham(!), Owen etc) and those with a brand (Beckham).

I would suggest it is because generally, English players are not good enough. In my times watching world cups, only 2 Englishmen have shined at finals - Gazza and Michael Owen. They both ended up abroad. Plus nowadays with the money in the EPL, any gifted English player has even less incentive to go abroad even if they were good enough.

You left out Mcmanaman, Woodgate, Ince and the Ferdinands (Anton + Les I believe) whilst wildly underselling Beckham but you're right only the top (for the most part) players have gone abroad...however, you often hear of other less stellar talents being given the chance to go abroad and turning it down and I just can't fathom it, especially if you read what someone like Dale Jennings has had to say about what it did for him ability wise (though it was Bayern in all fairness).

The strength of the English league system, financially anyway, probably is a (the) main reason. Shame really.

 

[Worthingite]

Face it - England supporters are the global version of Liverpool fans - dining out on past glories, and full of entitlement, with shock and outrage if the end result doesn't live up to the expectations. We have the most myopic media in the world, and the complete inability to see that we simply do not have the level of world class players that other countries have.

If anyone can seriously tell me that the likes of Chris Smalling, Danny Welback and Jordan Henderson are world class then you need your heads read!!! Our main league is driven by greed, and an "I'm alright Jack" attitude, with an ever dwindling level of English players coming through, and the FA itself is run by a group of out of touch old men who have no idea what is going on at the fundamental levels of the game. We have a manager who is looking more and more by the day like an OAP who's got on the wrong bus, and nobody coming through behind him to be able to steer the international squad in the right direction.

But it's ok though lad's - we've got a straightforward qualifying group for the Euro's, what could possibly go wrong eh?

 

[DJ Leon]

The definition of "superstar" is pretty warped, especially in the Premier League, where many players are overpaid and over-rated.

Meanwhile, players like James Rodriguez are barely noticed by British fans/press.

He was sold to Monaco a year ago for £35m. And let's face it, he's 10x the player Rooney is.

This. Part of the problem is that our players consider themselves superstars the moment they get into a Premier league first team. The reality of this WC is that none of our players impressed as much as many of the payers from the like of Algeria, Costa Rica, Chile, Ecuador etc. Our players are overrated. Luke Shaw costing nearly as much as James Rodriguez is just a joke.

 

[RupertsFlan]

It's sad that I have not watched one full game in this world cup.

Italia 90 when i was 20 i was absolutely glued to it.

Footballs changed and in a way I have changed with it - almost subconsciously.

I used to look forward to the Big match on a Sunday. TV games were an event. Now its a commodity at the very highest level - even in the championship its going that way.

FIFA, FA, Football LEague - they're the same to me now as political parties. Useless, ineffective, out of touch, irrelevant and ultimately distasteful to me.

We could change the political landscape - we haven't and we wont.

40% turn out in the last election?

Football is the same. We could vote with our feet - we could all turn Sky off. We could boycott games. we don't.

I am the very worst of the worst. I moan, complain, become detached and disenfranchised with the game.

And then I watch Sky. I feed the very mouth of the monster that has changed the game from the one I fell in love with to the one I despise.

The diving, the cheating, the money, the lifestyle, the people, the behaviour - frankly it stinks. It is a game bereft of morality. It is morally moribund.

Agents, Sky, players, the press and the fans. We have collectively taken a colossal shit in our own sink and now we don't like the smell - because we pay for the privileges of everyone who financially benefits from the game. We are accountable, responsible but we are too lazy to do anything.

Football in this country is simply a mirror to the morals, the soul and the behaviour that as a society we have condoned through our willingness to let the deviants, the corrupt, the cheats to prosper without ever holding them to account.

Turn Sky off, empty the stadiums and cry as one 'Enough'.

But of course we wont. It's too hard, we have too many things to think about as individuals. Keeping a roof above our heads, keeping our families safe, keeping our jobs……the list of what we need to 'keep' is endless. And in a society where fear of the future is ever present and exacerbated by politicians and the press, there will never be enough time or desire for a society to collectively baulk at the status quo and demand change.

Its sad. To me anyway. We are the merchants of our own demise and only now, staring into the abyss, into the flaming pit of the future we only now realise that we have done nothing. It is they say, the perfect situation for evil to prosper - when good people do nothing.

And we, as a society have taken 'doing nothing' to quite incredible heights - or depths perhaps is a more appropriate saying.

Luke Shaw - £110k per week? He's verging on illiterate, he's achieved nothing and has by all accounts behaved like a despicable child in the way he engineered his exit from Southampton.

If that behaviour , quality and level of achievement is rewarded with £110k per week then we should all be judged as a society for allowing that to happen. Tragic. Utterly tragic.

 

[Hotchilidog]

These players seem some way off similarly aged young players in other nations though. Walcott is 25, Wilshere 23, Sturridge 24. Other nations have players of these ages which are delivering on the world-stage already. I just have a feeling the three I mention will end up busted flushes like Ronney. Do people really think Wilshere is going to get better? If so why?

Whilst I would agree with you to some extent, these players do at least show we are heading in the right direction, even if there is still a long way to go. I think Wilshere could improve as long he stays fit long enough to really cement his place in Arsenal side that does ok in the champions league. I'd agree that we are behind other countries because even our 'elite' players seem to lack technique and the ability to control and move the ball quickly. For me this is the main difference between us and the rest of the world imo. However with the investment in academies I'd expect the next couple of generations of players to see us accelerate our way back up the football ladder.

 

[Brovion]

One thing on a slight tangent: population size has nothing to do with success. Scotland has a population of about five million, Uruaguay has a population of just over three. Granted the Faroe Island or the Vatican would probably struggle to win the World Cup, but once you get over a certain critical mass (say three million) then it becomes irrelevant. (And no matter how big your population you're only allowed to have eleven of them on the pitch at any one moment). One could almost argue a big population is a hinderance as you end up with about twenty players who are all much of a muchness and then you end up endlessly tinkering with combinations to try and find the perfect one. The Soviet Union never won the W.C. for example. That's before you even start to factor in competing interests.

 

[Puppet Master]

We just aren't that good, it's as simple as that. We're in the top 10-15 countries in the world, nothing more. Think how many players the big teams have playing in the best leagues all over the world. You never hear of any of the European giants clambering over each other to sign any English talent do you? Football in England is stuck in the dark ages and none of our squad know any other style of play.

 

[KZNSeagull]

One thing that always perplexes me is that we, apparently, don't give our young players enough game time to develop them. So why, if they know this and have done well in U21 or U18 tournaments for the national side, don't they try to move abroad to a country which gives youth a greater chance and has better facilities and coaching? If I were an U21 England player at Man City or Chelsea etc I would be at my agent trying to move to Spain or Germany.

Well quite. But as others have said, perhaps the height of their ambition is earning 25k a week playing for Chelsea reserves or whoever?

Whilst I have not watched a huge amount of this World Cup, it is obvious to me that many nations out there are trying their hardest to do as well as they can. Am not convinced that this is the case nowadays with England. As much as I dislike Mr Beckham and his overrated footballing skills, he did at least give the impression of wanting to win and achieve something.

 

[Biscuit]

Lets be honest, we could have played the same old faces and defended like hell and maybe, luckily snuck into the quarter finals. Maybe.

We didn't. We played with a much younger squad, and we went out to attack. That, in my book, bodes well for the future. Yes we're a second tier nation on the world stage, we have been for decades. But I see this latest squad as a regrouping, new style of England team - quite different to those that have gone before. We're going dynamic and exciting. Are we intelligent enough on the ball? No. Do we have big names capable of scaring opponents? No. Do we have individual match winners? No. But these things, all of them, will come in time.

I'm actually really proud of England after this World Cup. I think for the first time in a long time we really have a platform on which to build. Bring on the Euros I say.

Oh and for the record, a GB squad would be amazing. Would love to see it happen one day - outside of the Olympics,