[Politics] Brighton's homeless and that Victor Meldrew feeling

[spring hall convert]

Blaming political parties for this in unhelpful

It's not if the consequence of the policy position of one of those parties is to force people onto the streets.

It's obviously not the whole story, of course.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I appreciate this is one of those threads where your more unsavoury side bubbles up to the surface, so you're frothing at the mouth, dragging your knuckles on the ground and looking at sources, such as the one that showed you didn't know the difference between Homeless Duty that local authorities are duty obliged to care for registered homeless people, homelessness and rough sleeping, because you got all excited about immigrants and blaming something on The EU etc, etc as is your custom, but this thread is about Brighton and Hove. How many of Brighton and Hove's rough sleepers are foreign?

I know pointing out facts like increased immigration is one factor in rising levels of homelessness causes you to slightly soil your 'I luv Jeremy Corbyn' undercrackers ... indeed any mention of immigration is deemed an unsavoury/frothing at the mouth/ dragging knuckles topic in that far left bubble.

Take up the definitions with the fact checker site , just pointing out although there's been a 50% jump it's been a lot worse.

https://fullfact.org/economy/homelessness-england/

The person I was replying to was talking about the wider problem of homelessness across the country. So we have misrepresenting my argument to indulge in some virtual signalling ... see any talk on immigration = bigot/wacist and now your trying to define the limits of what can be discussed!

All this for daring to bring a new fact based, relevant, element to the topic ... Class Warrior tastic!

A safe space beckons, NSC's very own Captain Snowflake will show you the way.

 

[Worthing exile]

In my opening post I never said Homeless were scum or anything like that.

I was commenting that it is wrong for them to just decide where they are going to sleep or pitch tent without thought for others. In that mindset they are no different to Travellers. 'I am pitching/sleeping here and you can't touch me'.

There should be a co-ordinated support for all these people so that the genuine vulnerable homeless don't have to sleep on the street, have somewhere to wash etc every day and store their belongings when not needed.

The recent winter shelter at the Brighton Centre was under capacity most nights. Why? Stories I heard were that they didn't like the no drink/no drugs policy and had to be locked in from 10pm so they would miss their lucrative late night begging from clubbers. Can anyone from one of the support teams comment on this?
When the Council puts an effort in it is a shame it is not fully utilised.

 

[spring hall convert]

Captain Snowflake

Good work.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

So. In the end you just get Compassion Fatigue and close the dialogue down with a 'Sorry mate' as soon as you hear the 'Excuse me sir'. All very British. Sad it should have come to this, but saves both of us valuable time.

 

[ManOfSussex]

I know pointing out facts like increased immigration is one factor in rising levels of homelessness causes you to slightly soil your 'I luv Jeremy Corbyn' undercrackers ... indeed any mention of immigration is deemed an unsavoury/frothing at the mouth/ dragging knuckles topic in that far left bubble.

Take up the definitions with the fact checker site , just pointing out although there's been a 50% jump it's been a lot worse.

https://fullfact.org/economy/homelessness-england/

The person I was replying to was talking about the wider problem of homelessness across the country. So we have misrepresenting my argument to indulge in some virtual signalling ... see any talk on immigration = bigot/wacist and now your trying to define the limits of what can be discussed!

All this for daring to bring a new fact based, relevant, element to the topic ... Class Warrior tastic!

A safe space beckons, NSC's very own Captain Snowflake will show you the way.

I knew you wouldn't know the answer to the question I posed and would have to resort to further Googling things on an issue you don't understand and innocuous name calling - so thanks for not not disappointing on that. (Unlike you I don't need to Google and read the definitions as I already know them very well)

And I as pointed out from the first graphic you posted up that you didn't and still don't understand on local authority Homelessness Duty - the spike from 2002 that you refer to as 'been a lot worse' was caused by an extension of the criteria for registered homeless people to include more vulnerable groups as registered homeless and not all those people were rough sleepers and there was far more emergency accommodation and resources then than now, which I appreciate is a concept you can't grasp. (See austerity)

As you can see from the graphic you originally posted that you didn't and still don't understand, 'Homelessness Duty' levels actually fell off after 2004 when all the 'mass immigration' you're going on about from the EU A8 Accession countries that occurred, before rising as the affects of austerity measures were introduced from 2010.

When I did voluntary work a few years back, which involved dealing with vulnerable people at risk of being or registered as homeless - non were foreign. Benefit sanctions, capability assessments deeming people 'fit' to work, mental health, learning difficulties and concurrent substance/alcohol problems were the issues, not being immigrants, because non were. The fact is here, you're blaming immigrants as being the factor as it was the first thing you mentioned on this thread, as is your custom.

Anyway, good-bye.

 

[pearl]

Reasonable commentary from someone with the eye witness data. Appreciated.

I worked (on the deckchairs) in 1977 and 1979 at the bottom of West Street. There was a gaggle of 'alkies' drinking 'jack' (a mix of surgical spirit and water - which will cause brain damage and blinndness). Several jocks, on the sosh in the sun, giro posted to cheap bed and breafast (we had some back then) but not exactly a plague of locusts. Fast forward to now and it sounds like London has come to the coast.

But as @Uckfied Seagull notes there are genuine homeless and it strikes me as quite disgusting for other posters to band together these poor buggers, most of whom will be depressed at minimum and mentally ill, possibly with schizophrenia, at worst, with the gangs of professionals. And the police need to sort this out. Where I work there are occasionally build ups of flim flammers and pick pocketers on Westminster Brdge. Every now and then the police kettle them and they are gone for months. In fact they have been gone all year. It isn't.....that difficult.....I don't think.

I remember that 'gaggle', didn't one of them wear a cowboy hat and was nicknamed the Cowboy? They used to drink cough mixture etc. too, but they were harmless and looked out for each other.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I remember that 'gaggle', didn't one of them wear a cowboy hat and was nicknamed the Cowboy? They used to drink cough mixture etc. too, but they were harmless and looked out for each other.

Seems to ring a bell. It was tricky escaping if one of them engaged you in conversation. As I was working there it was hard to avoid. Yes, harmless.

 

[rippleman]

If you listen to many of the homeless in Brighton they are clearly not locals. There must be something that is attracting so many to leave north of the border, scouseland, Manchester etc etc and pitch up in Brighton.

My little hidey-hole (the gardens opposite St Nicks) now contains crackheads and their tents. The lady dog-walkers seem to have disappeared and a homeless guy I know called Andy who used to live in the gardens is scared for his safety there now. He told me that the OB move them on by making them move the tents a few yards (I have not witnessed that personally).

I no longer go there for a bit of peace & quiet and a read. Just not worth the risk.

 

[Bob'n'weave]

Well done that council. The homeless are scum mostly

See your points, and other posters points about some 'homeless people' not actually being homeless, the pro begging gangs, and the bedsit junkies on the streets begging etc, but I wouldn't go as far as to say 'scum', (apart from the professional gangs), and if we agree that those who are not actually homeless should figure lower down our social 'give a ****' scale, fine. So if these lot are not actually homeless, what bona fide homeless people do you consider to be scum? You know, those genuine people who find themselves homeless after horrific abuse, tragic loss, mental breakdowns, financial problems etc etc etc etc.....

Care for a re-think or are you happy with 'the homeless are scum, mostly'?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I knew you wouldn't know the answer to the question I posed and would have to resort to further Googling things on an issue you don't understand and innocuous name calling - so thanks for not not disappointing on that. (Unlike you I don't need to Google and read the definitions as I already know them very well)

And I as pointed out from the first graphic you posted up that you didn't and still don't understand on local authority Homelessness Duty - the spike from 2002 that you refer to as 'been a lot worse' was caused by an extension of the criteria for registered homeless people to include more vulnerable groups as registered homeless and not all those people were rough sleepers and there was far more emergency accommodation and resources then than now, which I appreciate is a concept you can't grasp. (See austerity)

As you can see from the graphic you originally posted that you didn't and still don't understand, 'Homelessness Duty' levels actually fell off after 2004 when all the 'mass immigration' you're going on about from the EU A8 Accession countries that occurred, before rising as the affects of austerity measures were introduced from 2010.

When I did voluntary work a few years back, which involved dealing with vulnerable people at risk of being or registered as homeless - non were foreign. Benefit sanctions, capability assessments deeming people 'fit' to work, mental health, learning difficulties and concurrent substance/alcohol problems were the issues, not being immigrants, because non were. The fact is here, you're blaming immigrants as being the factor as it was the first thing you mentioned on this thread, as is your custom.

Anyway, good-bye.

Honestly. Practically everyone on this thread is on the same page, apart from the Prancing Ninny (I infer, from your over-generous and patient reply). Unfortunately he appears to lack the necessary empathy to recognise what to do when he's more than two standard deviations from the mean. Perhaps he should stand for election onto the council.

 

[pearl]

In my opening post I never said Homeless were scum or anything like that..

well you started a very interesting thread anyways

 

[smartferndale]

homeless Essex take

Southend is an area with the same problem. I live a few miles away in Rayleigh but we have very few who appear, usually very briefly, on the streets. The Council has very little power in this area. First is a person begging or genuinely homeless. If begging it's Community Safety officer and police.But police gave no interest unless person is violent. Beggars are moved then go to the next place that's if someone does go out to speak to them. We tried to start a homeless support group in the town. After 6 months we have got nowhere. Everyone agrees help and support needed but when it comes to being first contact everyone is unwilling to be that person. There are 3 of us so far and it is very frustrating. I attend a local church, know all the local ministers by name and they have been as obstructive as any. What is the future for the church in England? None if the preaching tells us to help the poor and needy but then leave it to everyone else. None if we are told to go out with the protection of faith, I am sure someone can give the armour of God chapter and verse, and then told we need to have training and awareness courses and other b.......s. Rant over and all praise to those prepared to take on aiding those who are mentally ill, have addiction or other reasons to be on our streets.

 

[Since1982]

In my opening post I never said Homeless were scum or anything like that.

I was commenting that it is wrong for them to just decide where they are going to sleep or pitch tent without thought for others. In that mindset they are no different to Travellers. 'I am pitching/sleeping here and you can't touch me'.

There should be a co-ordinated support for all these people so that the genuine vulnerable homeless don't have to sleep on the street, have somewhere to wash etc every day and store their belongings when not needed.

The recent winter shelter at the Brighton Centre was under capacity most nights. Why? Stories I heard were that they didn't like the no drink/no drugs policy and had to be locked in from 10pm so they would miss their lucrative late night begging from clubbers. Can anyone from one of the support teams comment on this?
When the Council puts an effort in it is a shame it is not fully utilised.

I certainly understand the frustration you expressed in your post, nothing wrong with that at all. As to the success or otherwise of the Brighton Centre shelter I don’t know enough to comment but I’ve no doubt the chaotic lives and deep rooted issues of many on the streets means that simply providing shelter isn’t always the answer. You have certainly sparked an interesting debate!

 

[Since1982]

Southend is an area with the same problem. I live a few miles away in Rayleigh but we have very few who appear, usually very briefly, on the streets. The Council has very little power in this area. First is a person begging or genuinely homeless. If begging it's Community Safety officer and police.But police gave no interest unless person is violent. Beggars are moved then go to the next place that's if someone does go out to speak to them. We tried to start a homeless support group in the town. After 6 months we have got nowhere. Everyone agrees help and support needed but when it comes to being first contact everyone is unwilling to be that person. There are 3 of us so far and it is very frustrating. I attend a local church, know all the local ministers by name and they have been as obstructive as any. What is the future for the church in England? None if the preaching tells us to help the poor and needy but then leave it to everyone else. None if we are told to go out with the protection of faith, I am sure someone can give the armour of God chapter and verse, and then told we need to have training and awareness courses and other b.......s. Rant over and all praise to those prepared to take on aiding those who are mentally ill, have addiction or other reasons to be on our streets.

Disappointing to hear that the churches aren’t getting involved - this contrasts with Brighton where local churches and many in Mid Sussex commit massively to doing what they can to allieviate suffering on the streets of the city.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I knew you wouldn't know the answer to the question I posed and would have to resort to further Googling things on an issue you don't understand and innocuous name calling - so thanks for not not disappointing on that. (Unlike you I don't need to Google and read the definitions as I already know them very well)

And I as pointed out from the first graphic you posted up that you didn't and still don't understand on local authority Homelessness Duty - the spike from 2002 that you refer to as 'been a lot worse' was caused by an extension of the criteria for registered homeless people to include more vulnerable groups as registered homeless and not all those people were rough sleepers and there was far more emergency accommodation and resources then than now, which I appreciate is a concept you can't grasp. (See austerity)

As you can see from the graphic you originally posted that you didn't and still don't understand, 'Homelessness Duty' levels actually fell off after 2004 when all the 'mass immigration' you're going on about from the EU A8 Accession countries that occurred, before rising as the affects of austerity measures were introduced from 2010.

When I did voluntary work a few years back, which involved dealing with vulnerable people at risk of being or registered as homeless - non were foreign. Benefit sanctions, capability assessments deeming people 'fit' to work, mental health, learning difficulties and concurrent substance/alcohol problems were the issues, not being immigrants, because non were. The fact is here, you're blaming immigrants as being the factor as it was the first thing you mentioned on this thread, as is your custom.

Anyway, good-bye.

Fortunately not all of us claim to know everything while regularly proving the complete opposite is true … so like to occasionally use google to check on stuff. Name calling like knuckle dragging etc?

No use re writing history now. The first thing I mentioned was austerity I just mentioned immigration as it is another factor. Then produced a bit of evidence for London which has the biggest problems that showed immigration is a significant factor in some areas. At no point did i 'Blame' immigrants as you suggested. There is nothing to blame them for. The conversation was about identifying factors behind the big rise then you jumped in with your class warrior size twelves.

I am mildly surprised you didn't encounter any foreign nationals .. actually no I'm not. Taking one recent year (2014/15) in Brighton ,according to the rough sleeper annual report nearly 20% were foreign nationals the biggest single group being from eastern/central Europe a number that had doubled from the previous year. Apologies once again for using google to find out facts. Personal anecdotes good for virtue signalling not so good for getting at the truth.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Good work.

Special power - dissolving into a puddle of tears when confronted with opinions he doesn't like.

Trusty sidekick - Class Warrior Boy

 

[ManOfSussex]

Fortunately not all of us claim to know everything while regularly proving the complete opposite is true … so like to occasionally use google to check on stuff. Name calling like knuckle dragging etc?

No use re writing history now. The first thing I mentioned was austerity I just mentioned immigration as it is another factor. Then produced a bit of evidence for London which has the biggest problems that showed immigration is a significant factor in some areas. At no point did i 'Blame' immigrants as you suggested. There is nothing to blame them for. The conversation was about identifying factors behind the big rise then you jumped in with your class warrior size twelves.

I am mildly surprised you didn't encounter any foreign nationals .. actually no I'm not. Taking one recent year (2014/15) in Brighton ,according to the rough sleeper annual report nearly 20% were foreign nationals the biggest single group being from eastern/central Europe a number that had doubled from the previous year. Apologies once again for using google to find out facts. Personal anecdotes good for virtue signalling not so good for getting at the truth.

How many homeless or at risk of becoming homeless, let alone rough sleepers, have you encountered and engaged with directly, full stop?

My personal anecdotes on this aren't from Brighton and Hove and I don't need to Google things on matters I don't really understand from 4 years ago like you continue to do, let alone continue with the innocuous name calling as you're doing on the post above, which really shows all you've got left to contribute on this and your whole attitude to this rather depressing subject matter of this thread.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

How many homeless or at risk of becoming homeless, let alone rough sleepers, have you encountered and engaged with directly, full stop?

My personal anecdotes on this aren't from Brighton and Hove and I don't need to Google things on matters I don't really understand from 4 years ago like you continue to do.

How many people would it need to be to invalidate the official stats?

Not about Brighton and Hove ... I thought that was against your thread rules.

 

[ManOfSussex]

How many people would it need to be to invalidate the official stats?

Not about Brighton and Hove ... I thought that was against your thread rules.

I'll take that as none then.