Black players and homophobia

[Yossarian]

Undoubtedly, it's true that there is homophobia in the black community. As there is in the white, Indian, Chinese, Turkish, Mongolian, Brazilian etc communities.

In football's macho, laddish culture it's even more prevalent. I don't really see how black homophobia is any different to that of other groups. There haven't been more incidents involving black players, have there?

My point originally was the paradox between the fight against racism, for which black players have rightly been the beneficiaries, and what I still contend is a disproportionate level of blatant homophobia in the game from some black players.

 

[Bakero]

My point originally was the paradox between the fight against racism, for which black players have rightly been the beneficiaries, and what I still contend is a disproportionate level of blatant homophobia in the game from some black players.

What makes you think it's disproportionate?

 

[Yossarian]

What makes you think it's disproportionate?

The number of instances I know of compared to the proportion of black to white players.

It is certainly disproportionate in the wider community. A good friend of mine lives and used to teach in the Tottenham and Enfield area and experiences far more homophobia from young black males than any other section of the community. These are the people players like CKR and Diouf should be trying to influence positively, not playing to their prejudice.

 

[clippedgull]

Has the CKR 'incident' been concluded yet?

 

[Baron Pepperpot]

As a regular poster, and one of NSC's resident gayers, I would like to suggest that the OP is trying to make a simple point.

The heritage of most black cultures tends to be more intolerent towards homosexuality. This is reflected strongly in the present laws of African nations (I think in only 4 is homosexuality not an offence), and also the Caribbean. And some of this will be down to the still strong religious ties between state, church and ultimately the grand decider-education. It is only natural therefore that views may be more inherited than in more liberal cultures, even if youngsters grow up in them.

This is not to say though, despite the observation, that Black people are 'homophobes' or any other 'phobe or ist' generally. But it is not wrong to make cultural observations.

Where the PC brigade have gone wrong, dangerously wrong, is that in their quest they draw divisive lines by not allowing open and enclusive enquiries about the way other cultures exist in our pluralist mono-cultural society that they have created.

My observations are not based on observation alone, they are based on questions I have asked folk themselves. And also the fact that I once dated a Muslim, and slept with a very interesting and intelligent black guy.

 

[Bakero]

The number of instances I know of compared to the proportion of black to white players.

The facts don't really back that up though. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_English_football

 

[Yossarian]

As a regular poster, and one of NSC's resident gayers, I would like to suggest that the OP is trying to make a simple point.

The heritage of most black cultures tends to be more intolerent towards homosexuality. This is reflected strongly in the present laws of African nations (I think in only 4 is homosexuality not an offence), and also the Caribbean. And some of this will be down to the still strong religious ties between state, church and ultimately the grand decider-education. It is only natural therefore that views may be more inherited than in more liberal cultures, even if youngsters grow up in them.

This is not to say though, despite the observation, that Black people are 'homophobes' or any other 'phobe or ist' generally. But it is not wrong to make cultural observations.

Where the PC brigade have gone wrong, dangerously wrong, is that in their quest they draw divisive lines by not allowing open and enclusive enquiries about the way other cultures exist in our pluralist mono-cultural society that they have created.

My observations are not based on observation alone, they are based on questions I have asked folk themselves. And also the fact that I once dated a Muslim, and slept with a very interesting and intelligent black guy.

Very well put, and yes, that is my point. I understand where the prejudice comes from, but feel like it is discouraged from being debated due to concerns that the argument in itself is racist or un-PC, when in fact it is not.

 

[Yossarian]

The facts don't really back that up though. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_English_football

I'm not sure you can reliably quote wikipedia entries as scientific fact, and knowhere does that article illustrate proportionality.

 

[Bakero]

I'm not sure you can reliably quote wikipedia entries as scientific fact, and knowhere does that article illustrate proportionality.

The wikipedia page refers to numerous incidents of homophobia in English football; there is not a disproportionate number of cases with a black perpetrator.

Earlier on this thread I posted links to two other cases involving homophobia by white players. From what I can see there is a disproportionate level of homophobia from white players and managers.

 

[Dr JCL]

If the prejudice towards homosexuals is felt disproportionately amongst black males, for which I have seen no evidence, then perhaps it is an attitude which stems from an insecurity of identity. That some young black males perhaps feel victimised by society - often with good reason - and thus clutch to masculinity as a vice in combatting such pressures, it could explain the disproportion, if it exists at all. My views aren't based on evidence, but I think it is well acknowledged that insecurity breeds insecurity. If there's any truth in this, I fail to see how political correctness is in any way to blame.

 

[Yossarian]

The wikipedia page refers to numerous incidents of homophobia in English football; there is not a disproportionate number of cases with a black perpetrator.

Earlier on this thread I posted links to two other cases involving homophobia by white players. From what I can see there is a disproportionate level of homophobia from white players and managers.

To avoid this turning into a debate on semantics I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on that point.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I don't really see how black homophobia is any different to that of other groups.

The hypocrisy component.

Someone calls a black player a name its the end of the world and major news.

Same black player abuses another minority and it's all a bit of banter.

I think that's the gist of the point.

 

[Bakero]

To avoid this turning into a debate on semantics I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on that point.

Ok, we'll leave it there.

 

[Bakero]

The hypocrisy component.

Someone calls a black player a name its the end of the world and major news.

Same black player abuses another minority and it's all a bit of banter.

I think that's the gist of the point.

When has a black player abusing another minority been dismissed as a bit of banter?

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

When has a black player abusing another minority been dismissed as a bit of banter?

The general condemnation of it is far, far less as are the punishments and stigma connected with the comments.

Read back on any thread which involves racism or homophobia football and you'll have a far higher % of football fans using the lame line of "it's only a bit of banter" as justification of the homophobic attitude.

 

[Bakero]

The general condemnation of it is far, far less as are the punishments and stigma connected with the comments.

Read back on any thread which involves racism or homophobia football and you'll have a far higher % of football fans using the lame line of "it's only a bit of banter" as justification of the homophobic attitude.

I'd agree that in football, and life in general, racism is viewed as more serious than homophobia. What's that got to do with claim that black players are disproportionately homophobic?

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

Very well put, and yes, that is my point. I understand where the prejudice comes from, but feel like it is discouraged from being debated due to concerns that the argument in itself is racist or un-PC, when in fact it is not.

I have no doubt that your motives are non-racist. Feel free to debate away.