BHA Supporters' Trust

[Yorkie]

It must happen. The club's current idea of raising funds from supporters is just to rattle a tin under our noses whilst warning us of the dire consequences if we don't contribute (the dire 'Alive and Kicking' campaign). The people like Norman Cook who have put the most in have all got 'worthless' bits of paper but at least their contributions are acknowledged - the great unwashed have nothing to show for their investment.

Acknowledged how? We had our name in the programme and letters of thanks for donations to the A&K fund. Bits of paper I believe?

 

[Brovion]

Acknowledged how? We had our name in the programme and letters of thanks for donations to the A&K fund. Bits of paper I believe?

Glorified 'flag day'. Not the same as shares are they?

 

[Yorkie]

Glorified 'flag day'. Not the same as shares are they?

They weren't meant to be. Donations is the word.
Norman Cook stated he didn't want shares.

 

[Brovion]

They weren't meant to be. Donations is the word.
Norman Cook stated he didn't want shares.

I know they were donations! That's my point. Ideally I want the club to be a true community club, owned 'on paper' by the fans and not rich individuals or corporate institutions. Yes I know Cook, Knight etc are fans and I know that we probably won't raise enough funds without some sort of corporate involvment - but I want all investment to be treated the same and not have one rule for big investors and another for all the little ones.

 

[Wardy]

I know they were donations! That's my point. Ideally I want the club to be a true community club, owned 'on paper' by the fans and not rich individuals or corporate institutions. Yes I know Cook, Knight etc are fans and I know that we probably won't raise enough funds without some sort of corporate involvment - but I want all investment to be treated the same and not have one rule for big investors and another for all the little ones.

That is the idea of a suporters trust. If you can only afford to invest a small amount, it is pooled with the rest of the fund. You might not personally have a vote but the trust as a whole might. You can then have a say on the views of the trust.

Only a small say I agree but still more then any of us do at the moment.

 

[The Auditor]

I think you'll find that Tim Carder knows a fair bit about this subject.

Wasnt Paul Welch involved in some initial work on this after one of the fans forums?

Wasnt it also mentioned at one of the forumsthat the Alive & kicking money would be converted into Supporters Trust Fund shares?

 

[Dave the OAP]

My old friend, as you so often describe him, Greg Stanley approached Brian Bedson to put me on the board to speak for the fans and was told ' Where is his money how many shares does he hold' I am sure that there are many like Brian Bedson out there once we become an attractive target for investment.

God Save Us


Mentioning Stanley and Bedson on one thread has put me right off my coco pops

Count me out...I pay enough for a season ticket/shirt/food/ assorted tat from the shop.

they have their fair share of dosh from me

 

[The Large One]

God Save Us


Mentioning Stanley and Bedson on one thread has put me right off my coco pops

Count me out...I pay enough for a season ticket/shirt/food/ assorted tat from the shop.

they have their fair share of dosh from me

But don't you want a say in the running of the club?

 

[Dave the OAP]

Oh come one

My mate sits on the QPR Supporters trust and the only thing the club has ever taken notice of them was when the club wanted to change the away strip to Dark Green.
the supporters trust kicked up a fuss and they dropped the idea. Every other suggestion is poo pooed with the argument of "financial realities" thrown at them.

People are still very nieve about fan power, it did a fat lot of good at United who boast the largest fan base outside Spain!

 

[The Large One]

Yeah, but that's QPR. What did you expect?

We are far more important issues to be concerned aout than a poxy QPR shirt. The club is (hopefully) about to enter another disruptive time, when feelings will be running high about all sorts of things, not least of which the stadium of course. It's important we get this right.

We are Brighton, a club big on dignity, passion, care and honour. f*** it, Dave, I CARE. Failing that, just bring a bottle of red wine to the meetings, DK will be putty n your hands.

 

[Dave the OAP]

I did say that was one issue

In my 100's of years working in large organisations ( at board level sometimes) I know exactly what directors and owners thing of "worker groups and supporters trusts". It is just a way of giving the impression that the workers are being consulted when in fact decisions are made well before consultation starts.

we will just have to agree to disagree on this one my friend.

 

[Brovion]

Hmm, interesting. We've got Yorkie saying she's happy just to donate, me saying fans' contributions should be incorporated into the ownership structure and DtG (Dave the Grumpy) saying it doesn't make any bloody difference anyway.

This will run and run!

 

[On the Left Wing]

I agree that it is a superb idea .... many clubs' supporters have gone down this route in recent years to great effect - our friends at Cheaterfield are a good example.

If you need any contacts please PM me - I established a lot of links with Supporters Direct etc during my work with Wrexham FC and their supporters trust, I also met the Supporets Direct chair at a fans forum last January and they have a very good set-up

 

[BensGrandad]

I did say that was one issue

In my 100's of years working in large organisations ( at board level sometimes) I know exactly what directors and owners thing of "worker groups and supporters trusts". It is just a way of giving the impression that the workers are being consulted when in fact decisions are made well before consultation starts.

we will just have to agree to disagree on this one my friend.

I think that this was the attitude that Brian Bedson took and I feel sure that any new chairman that comes into the club, as may well happen, will adopt much the same attitude 'Lets listen to them so that they think they are making a contribution then find a reason to throw it out'.

 

[rool]

My personal wish for having a supporters trust is not for any kind of control on the day to day running of the club or decision making, it's purely for having some say, or accountability at least on how any money raised via the trust is spent.

This is the only way I will contribute any money to the club other than buying merchandise etc.

The likes of Yorkie are very far and few, hence the A&K fund falling way below what was needed.

 

[Cadiz Seagull]

To expect a Supporters Trust to have any serious power in any new structure is naive. power comes from financial clout. If the Supporters Trusts has loads of shares then it will have that clout. If it doesn't, then it won't. Simple business economics really.
BUT - and I think this is the main point - a Supporters Trust with representation on the board is far and away better than not having one. It may not have the clout to stop a dominant shareholder doing what he wants, assuming he can get enough votes, but if things are going well it will be great vehicle for keeping the fans informed. And if ever it looked like we were going down the Archer route again at least we would get an early warning.
So even though a Supporters Trust wouldn't be a complete safeguard against any underhand stuff it would IMHO be much better to have one than to not.
So count me in.

 

[Brovion]

I think that this was the attitude that Brian Bedson took and I feel sure that any new chairman that comes into the club, as may well happen, will adopt much the same attitude 'Lets listen to them so that they think they are making a contribution then find a reason to throw it out'.

I agree 100% and I agree with DtG - which is why the Supporters' Trust must own shares in the club. It will then carry as much (or as little) weight as the supporters want. If no one gives a toss then it won't raise any money and won't be able to buy any shares - and it's voice will quite rightly be ignored.

 

[Simster]

To make a tangible difference, a rich benfactor will need to earmark a number of their own shares to a newly created supporters trust (perhaps shares that entitle the trust to vote on only specific issues?), while ensuring that owners of the remaining shares can never be in an overall majority.

Until then, a supporters trust is going to be little more than an appeasement to supporters eager to show their worth. Mere fluff giving them veto on neglible issues such as changing the club badge, whether 50p should be added to programme prices or the location of the new club shop.

Unless of course, a government of the day actually intervenes and does something about the current situation with rip off prices and crooks and profiteers running half the nation's football clubs .

 

[The Large One]

To make a tangible difference, a rich benfactor will need to earmark a number of their own shares to a newly created supporters trust (perhaps shares that entitle the trust to vote on only specific issues?), while ensuring that owners of the remaining shares can never be in an overall majority.

Until then, a supporters trust is going to be little more than an appeasement to supporters eager to show their worth. Mere fluff giving them veto on neglible issues such as changing the club badge, whether 50p should be added to programme prices or the location of the new club shop.

Unless of course, a government of the day actually intervenes and does something about the current situation with rip off prices and crooks and profiteers running half the nation's football clubs .

So - and you are going to have to excuse my apparent stupidity here - what is the point you are making?

 

[Simster]

So - and you are going to have to excuse my apparent stupidity here - what is the point you are making?

Two points: Firstly, I'm sceptical about the benefits it will bring if a supporters trust is actually established. Secondly, I'd be enthusiastic if the trust was given some financial clout on the board.