[Finance] Betfred compelled to hand over £1.7m winnings

[Poojah]

I’ve had the displeasure of working with many gaming companies over the years, and it’s always made me uncomfortable. In particular, I’ve had access to back end data on occasion and whilst it never included personal information, you could spot where someone had continuously chased a losing bet and got themselves into one hell of a financial hole. I’ll be honest, the sheer bias of the numbers in favour of the gaming companies really put me off gambling for life.

For most in the industry it’s just ‘business’. Some people win, most people lose. But one absolute shyster I dealt with about 15 years ago who was the brand manager for a number of online casino and poker sites used to pin up letters of despair from failed punters who were about to lose everything on account of their gaming losses - their house, their marriage, their kids, maybe even their life if some letters were to be believed. Some were even framed in the style of a doctor’s medical certificate. Looking back I regret not calling him out on it, but I was young, new in the job, he was a big client and this was 2006, not 2021 - it was a very different world.

Still, I’ve never really understood why people play these quick fire, fixed odds games. They’re called that for a reason, the odds are literally fixed in the gaming company’s favour. Play for long enough and you lose, unless you happen to get that one big win and walk away. But the odds of that are tiny - few people ever do.

Perhaps it’s the same reason that I don’t understand why the bloke in the shop doorway is on his seventh can of barley wine at 2 o’clock in the afternoon. That it was never a conscious decision, it’s just how things turned out. Very sad though, and I can’t help but feel that more needs to be done about it.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

I’ve had the displeasure of working with many gaming companies over the years, and it’s always made me uncomfortable. In particular, I’ve had access to back end data on occasion and whilst it never included personal information, you could spot where someone had continuously chased a losing bet and got themselves into one hell of a financial hole. I’ll be honest, the sheer bias of the numbers in favour of the gaming companies really put me off gambling for life.

For most in the industry it’s just ‘business’. Some people win, most people lose. But one absolute shyster I dealt with about 15 years ago who was the brand manager for a number of online casino and poker sites used to pin up letters of despair from failed punters who were about to lose everything on account of their gaming losses - their house, their marriage, their kids, maybe even their life if some letters were to be believed. Some were even framed in the style of a doctor’s medical certificate. Looking back I regret not calling him out on it, but I was young, new in the job, he was a big client and this was 2006, not 2021 - it was a very different world.

Still, I’ve never really understood why people play these quick fire, fixed odds games. They’re called that for a reason, the odds are literally fixed in the gaming company’s favour. Play for long enough and you lose, unless you happen to get that one big win and walk away. But the odds of that are tiny - few people ever do.

Perhaps it’s the same reason that I don’t understand why the bloke in the shop doorway is on his seventh can of barley wine at 2 o’clock in the afternoon. That it was never a conscious decision, it’s just how things turned out. Very sad though, and I can’t help but feel that more needs to be done about it.

I used to pride myself on the fact I've never set foot in a bookies, I know that means cock all these days but other than doing Super 6 for free I don't have anything to do with the industry. I'm aware signing up for Super 6 gives me a Sky Bet account but I have never attempted a bet nor will I. I am glad of the ignorance I have on the subject so much so the %'s posters put on going down threads are completely lost on me.

 

[Weststander]

I’ve had the displeasure of working with many gaming companies over the years, and it’s always made me uncomfortable. In particular, I’ve had access to back end data on occasion and whilst it never included personal information, you could spot where someone had continuously chased a losing bet and got themselves into one hell of a financial hole. I’ll be honest, the sheer bias of the numbers in favour of the gaming companies really put me off gambling for life.

For most in the industry it’s just ‘business’. Some people win, most people lose. But one absolute shyster I dealt with about 15 years ago who was the brand manager for a number of online casino and poker sites used to pin up letters of despair from failed punters who were about to lose everything on account of their gaming losses - their house, their marriage, their kids, maybe even their life if some letters were to be believed. Some were even framed in the style of a doctor’s medical certificate. Looking back I regret not calling him out on it, but I was young, new in the job, he was a big client and this was 2006, not 2021 - it was a very different world.

Still, I’ve never really understood why people play these quick fire, fixed odds games. They’re called that for a reason, the odds are literally fixed in the gaming company’s favour. Play for long enough and you lose, unless you happen to get that one big win and walk away. But the odds of that are tiny - few people ever do.

Perhaps it’s the same reason that I don’t understand why the bloke in the shop doorway is on his seventh can of barley wine at 2 o’clock in the afternoon. That it was never a conscious decision, it’s just how things turned out. Very sad though, and I can’t help but feel that more needs to be done about it.

It’s an awful illness or disorder.

My wife’s step dad co-ran a retail business in Lewes. On daily closing, he’d head to the nearby gaming machine arcade, to blow the days hard earned profits.

Before that he’d been an independent cabbie, where he lost his previous marriage, home, the taxi and daily takings from gambling.

 

[Poojah]

I used to pride myself on the fact I've never set foot in a bookies, I know that means cock all these days but other than doing Super 6 for free I don't have anything to do with the industry. I'm aware signing up for Super 6 gives me a Sky Bet account but I have never attempted a bet nor will I. I am glad of the ignorance I have on the subject so much so the %'s posters put on going down threads are completely lost on me.

I go into the bookies once a year to place a bet on the national, usually. I wouldn't even bother with that, but the wife quite enjoys the occasion and she likes to let the kids have a little dabble. It's a bit of a shít deal really; I stick about £50 all in and if her or the kids win then the winnings are theirs, but never the losses. I think I last made a profit of about £70 in 2010, so I'm well down personally.

At the end of the day, like any vice I'm sure it can be good fun in healthy doses. I can definitely see the appeal of sports betting, it's just not for me. I do like a beer though, and I'm sure others would question why I spend good money on that. I see it as 'each to their own', however for me the unhealthy end of the gaming industry is just as exploitative as illicit drugs, yet much easier to solve.

It must be possible if not quite easy to algorithmically detect problem gambling, in a way that's more difficult to do with alcohol or drug addiction. It could be largely prevented; the fact that it isn't is ultimately someone's choice somewhere.

 

[herecomesaregular]

Gambling companies and their creators/owners are scum of the earth.

Except when their profits from such business build a club a stadium, take them to the Premier League and keep them there.

 

[Tokyohands]

I swear I've won the national lottery before but a mechanical error drew the wrong balls!

 

[vagabond]

For most in the industry it’s just ‘business’. Some people win, most people lose. But one absolute shyster I dealt with about 15 years ago who was the brand manager for a number of online casino and poker sites used to pin up letters of despair from failed punters who were about to lose everything on account of their gaming losses - their house, their marriage, their kids, maybe even their life if some letters were to be believed. Some were even framed in the style of a doctor’s medical certificate. Looking back I regret not calling him out on it, but I was young, new in the job, he was a big client and this was 2006, not 2021 - it was a very different world.

That is absolutely appalling. I don’t blame you for not wishing to rock the boat at a young age but he deserved being called out, and I suspect someone did eventually.

It’s psychologically very likely people at the top of their profession in gambling organisations have to do a lot of mental and cognitive reframing. No one wants to do a job that causes distinct harm to society or to individuals. But they’ve made it to the top and damn if they’re going to kiss goodbye to that senior manager or CEO salary they’ve worked hard for. “It’s just fun”. “Gamble responsibly” (as if an addict has that ability, and I always note the subtext here: It’s their fault if they don’t). Your manager hanging up those begging letters is a dark image, but was his way of trying to make light of what’s a horrific side to the industry so he could effectively sleep at night.

 

[sydney]

Bookies and insurers. Scum of the earth.

solicitors and orthodontists too.

 

[Simster]

Gambling companies and their creators/owners are scum of the earth.

Except when their profits from such business build a club a stadium, take them to the Premier League and keep them there.

Faced between a choice between the status quo and a nation with fairly Draconian gambling restrictions but that football club playing in a far more modest stadium, I'd take the latter all day long. Gambling absolutely ruins lives.

Where it differs from, say, drink problems is that it doesn't help the economy in any way because nothing is being produced. With drink, the vast majority of people are simply buying a tangible product that is in demand. But gambling is about redistributing vast sums from the vulnerable to the already wealthy. It contributes nothing to the economy. The income tax paid from the obscene wealth of the Bet365 CEO (look it up) would have been collected anyway from the poor/stupid sods who jizzed up the wall their entire weekly earnings, so why exactly are we putting up with this? I'd make it illegal to bet more than £20 a week.

 

[sydney]

a mate and i were playing a poker machine in a pub in Paddington in Sydney a long time ago now , it was a Thursday afternoon and the machine was just going off , we had over 11 k in credit and it was in the middle of a 30 free spin bonus when the suburb or part of it was hit by a power cut , my mate Stu wasn't that bothered as he was an ex bar man and he knew the credits would all be recorded in the machine when it came back on , he spoke to the guy in charge and he made a note of it , took our details and we said we'd return the next day , all good , nah , when we went back the machines had all been re-set as apparently a couple of them were affected by the power cut .........we never got the money.

we waged a campaign of bad behaviour and general mischief on the place for months until we were eventually barred and given a proximity order by NSW finest.

often wondered if one or all of the staff took the money .....pricks.

 

[vagabond]

Faced between a choice between the status quo and a nation with fairly Draconian gambling restrictions but that football club playing in a far more modest stadium, I'd take the latter all day long. Gambling absolutely ruins lives.

Where it differs from, say, drink problems is that it doesn't help the economy in any way because nothing is being produced. With drink, the vast majority of people are simply buying a tangible product that is in demand. But gambling is about redistributing vast sums from the vulnerable to the already wealthy. It contributes nothing to the economy. The income tax paid from the obscene wealth of the Bet365 CEO (look it up) would have been collected anyway from the poor/stupid sods who jizzed up the wall their entire weekly earnings, so why exactly are we putting up with this? I'd make it illegal to bet more than £20 a week.

Most people who gamble (and not being pious, I have the odd flutter myself) have a fun bet occasionally, responsibly, and go about their day with no harm done. But there is unquestionably a section of the population who have the capacity to be a gambling addict. Are the companies doing enough to protect those people? That is the question. Clearly not.

For starters, why do so many online bookies allow such high bets? That’s a good place to start. I checked out of interest a while ago, and you can bet up to 50k on SkyBet. What responsible individual of a responsible society would choose to bet that amount. “He has enough money”, well maybe, but if he does that money would surely better contribute to society in other ways. And if he doesn’t have enough money, god help him. He’s destroying his life and those around him.

There surely needs to be some sort of gambling cap. Maybe when you sign up before you can lay a bet you have to declare income. Some sort of automatically applied regulation to only gamble a set % of your income. I suspect any such measure would have to be enforced legally before we see any meaningful change.

 

[maltaseagull]

Pleased to see that this punter won his legal case. Gambling company can’t always have its cake and eat it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-56663830

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Pleased for the punter but I suspect Peter Coyle was more thrilled with his share of the payout.

 

[Pinkie Brown]

Couldn't happen to a nicer company. A friend was a manager for Betfred but had previously worked for Totesport before Betfred took them over. Horrible company to work for. Ex Tote employees were apparently targeted as the T&C's of their contracts were far better than any Betfred employee due to TOU regs. They apparently tried every trick in the book to get rid of them. There was talk of a class action for constructive dismissal from some employees but nothing became of it. He had three shops under his control. He was uncomfortable with female employees working alone late evenings with no security cameras. He'd had enough after a couple of years and took his pension earlier.

 

[scamander]

The reality is, its just betting companies covering their arses so they can be seen to be "doing something".

This, a thousand times this. The Betting Industry realises what it could lose, many industries do something similar. Token outreach or such to keep the regulator happy and the spokesman an easy soundbite.

 

[Normal Rob]

There's a gambling ad that i keep hearing at the moment that talks through all the stuff they are doing to protect you from developing a detrimental gambling habit, then encourages you to 'visit their website' to find out more. Makes my piss boil.

 

[Arthur]

Dear Mr Bloom,

Your money is not welcome here as we all hate gambling.

Lots of love
The Self Righteous NSC BHAFC fans

 

[Badger]

Dear Mr Bloom,

Your money is not welcome here as we all hate gambling.

Lots of love
The Self Righteous NSC BHAFC fans

Don't be so pathetic. Just because Tony made a lot of his money from a gambling company doesn't mean we all have to love it.

 

[sydney]

it's a mugs game , you need to spend propper money to cover your odds and get a return ie doing a 5 fold bet for $10 but then loading up on the doubles and trebles at at least double you base bet ....this would put your stake at aver $100 but your chances of doubling your money are reasonable,

 

[Weststander]

Dear Mr Bloom,

Your money is not welcome here as we all hate gambling.

Lots of love
The Self Righteous NSC BHAFC fans

Nothing to do with hating gambling or wanting it banned.

Instead, empathy for the 340,000 problem gamblers in the UK (folk who lose literally everything, due to an addiction) and a loathing of the exploiters.

 

[Arthur]

Don't be so pathetic. Just because Tony made a lot of his money from a gambling company doesn't mean we all have to love it.

It's a bit like Watford fans calling us poofs when their chairman was Elton John (which has happened to me).