Belgium Grand Prix what you weren't allowed to see.

[piersa]

And it will be for sometime with that luddite view!

So what do you use instead of oil?

 

[Doc Lynam]

So what do you use instead of oil?

There is no instead of oil at the moment, unfortunately our infrastructure is to depended on it. But if I was working at a government level I would have continue financial investment for the next decade at least and tax breaks for companies that work within the field of green and renewable energies inviting the best from around the world to work with the British making us the world leader. Stimulating focusing on our hugely neglected manufacturing base again giving tax breaks for those based within this field thus giving them a chance to be more competitive on a global market. That would be a start.

 

[beorhthelm]

There is no instead of oil at the moment, unfortunately our infrastructure is to depended on it. ... Stimulating focusing on our hugely neglected manufacturing base again giving tax breaks for those based within this field thus giving them a chance to be more competitive on a global market.

its more than infrastructure, you do know what is used in an awful lot of manufacturing, dont you? try this: identify everything in your house that uses an oil based component and stop using it.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

How much do we waste? Do we need polystyrene trays for apples? Do we need tulips from Kenya? Do we need to produce so much food that 50% never makes it to a plate?

 

[GingerBeerMan]

its more than infrastructure, you do know what is used in an awful lot of manufacturing, dont you? try this: identify everything in your house that uses an oil based component and stop using it.

3% of crude oil use goes towards plastic manufacturing. We could do away with oil in transport and electricity generation, hugely reducing our dependence on it. But then demand would fall, and the oil companies can't have that can they! They have the power to develop or stall technological advancements. It's ironic the oil companies fuel our demand for oil and no-one seems to care.

 

[Doc Lynam]

its more than infrastructure, you do know what is used in an awful lot of manufacturing, dont you? try this: identify everything in your house that uses an oil based component and stop using it.

Manufacturing uses oil? I thought they made everything out off crystals; no wait a minute that's superman! I do appreciate the science test and yes i did realise that! That's why i said to start with at the end, just because we currently use oil in different forms in different products doesn't mean for one minute that its beyond the wit of man to start find alternatives.

 

[Doc Lynam]

its more than infrastructure, you do know what is used in an awful lot of manufacturing, dont you? try this: identify everything in your house that uses an oil based component and stop using it.

These are some of the issue's people have with oil companies.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/may/30/oil-spills-nigeria-niger-delta-shell

One report, compiled by WWF UK, the World Conservation Union and representatives from the Nigerian federal government and the Nigerian Conservation Foundation, calculated in 2006 that up to 1.5m tons of oil – 50 times the pollution unleashed in the Exxon Valdez tanker disaster in Alaska – has been spilled in the delta over the past half century. Last year Amnesty calculated that the equivalent of at least 9m barrels of oil was spilled and accused the oil companies of a human rights outrage.

According to Nigerian federal government figures, there were more than 7,000 spills between 1970 and 2000, and there are 2,000 official major spillages sites, many going back decades, with thousands of smaller ones still waiting to be cleared up. More than 1,000 spill cases have been filed against Shell alone.

Last month Shell admitted to spilling 14,000 tonnes of oil in 2009. The majority, said the company, was lost through two incidents – one in which the company claims that thieves damaged a wellhead at its Odidi field and another where militants bombed the Trans Escravos pipeline.

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/africa/07/03/dr.congo.explosion/index.html

At least 230 people were killed and 190 injured when an oil tanker flipped over and exploded in the Democratic Republic of Congo, a government spokesman said Saturday.

And now they want to go into one of the hardest and last untouched areas of the planet.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

How much do we waste? Do we need polystyrene trays for apples? Do we need tulips from Kenya? Do we need to produce so much food that 50% never makes it to a plate?

Which leads to another question, if buying goods from Kenya helps to boost their economy by providing work, from the growers to those transporting the goods. How would getting rid of the demand for these types of goods being exported to other countries affect Kenya's population? Would it send more people into poverty.

The question regarding wasted food maybe should also be, what happens to it afterwards? - does it get recycled into fertilizer, used to produce energy (using the methane given off) etc, or does it go into landfill

 

[Guy Fawkes]

These are some of the issue's people have with oil companies.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/may/30/oil-spills-nigeria-niger-delta-shell

One report, compiled by WWF UK, the World Conservation Union and representatives from the Nigerian federal government and the Nigerian Conservation Foundation, calculated in 2006 that up to 1.5m tons of oil – 50 times the pollution unleashed in the Exxon Valdez tanker disaster in Alaska – has been spilled in the delta over the past half century. Last year Amnesty calculated that the equivalent of at least 9m barrels of oil was spilled and accused the oil companies of a human rights outrage.

According to Nigerian federal government figures, there were more than 7,000 spills between 1970 and 2000, and there are 2,000 official major spillages sites, many going back decades, with thousands of smaller ones still waiting to be cleared up. More than 1,000 spill cases have been filed against Shell alone.

Last month Shell admitted to spilling 14,000 tonnes of oil in 2009. The majority, said the company, was lost through two incidents – one in which the company claims that thieves damaged a wellhead at its Odidi field and another where militants bombed the Trans Escravos pipeline.

At least 230 people were killed and 190 injured when an oil tanker flipped over and exploded in the Democratic Republic of Congo, a government spokesman said Saturday.

And now they want to go into one of the hardest and last untouched areas of the planet.

I watched a programme recently talking about Nigeria and they actually travelled to various parts and saw a lot of the pipelines where oil was leaking. It was caused by fuel thieves damaging the pipelines or valves, etc in order to steal oil to sell to overseas buyers illegally. It was not caused by a shoddy approach and cutting corners by the oil companies as you seem to be suggesting above but by organised crime.

I expect this accounts for the vast majority of your 7000 spills between 1970 and 2000.

Will there be many criminals in 'one of the hardest and last untouched areas of the planet'?

 

[Doc Lynam]

Which leads to another question, if buying goods from Kenya helps to boost their economy by providing work, from the growers to those transporting the goods. How would getting rid of the demand for these types of goods being exported to other countries affect Kenya's population? Would it send more people into poverty.

The question regarding wasted food maybe should also be, what happens to it afterwards? - does it get recycled into fertilizer, used to produce energy (using the methane given off) etc, or does it go into landfill

Also how much of the money made by the oil companies remains within the communities and countries.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Which leads to another question, if buying goods from Kenya helps to boost their economy by providing work, from the growers to those transporting the goods. How would getting rid of the demand for these types of goods being exported to other countries affect Kenya's population? Would it send more people into poverty.

Since much of the garden vegetables grown in East Africa get imported by air into Lincolnshire and other parts of Eastern England, you could ask a related question: how much is this contributing to the exploitation of low-paid Eastern European migrant workers in British packing factories?

 

[Doc Lynam]

I watched a programme recently talking about Nigeria and they actually travelled to various parts and saw a lot of the pipelines where oil was leaking. It was caused by fuel thieves damaging the pipelines or valves, etc in order to steal oil to sell to overseas buyers illegally. It was not caused by a shoddy approach and cutting corners by the oil companies as you seem to be suggesting above but by organised crime.

I expect this accounts for the vast majority of your 7000 spills between 1970 and 2000.

Will there be many criminals in 'one of the hardest and last untouched areas of the planet'?

Why did the locals steal it? Im taking a stab in the dark that the thieves personal lives are so desperate and corrupt and oil is so exclusive they were driven to it. Again I would question how much oil money stays within and benefits the community. Long before Europeans like The Butcher of the Congo, Africa has represented one fat sau just waiting for foreigners to cut and run with what they can.

 

[Sergei's Celebration]

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/africa/07/03/dr.congo.explosion/index.html

At least 230 people were killed and 190 injured when an oil tanker flipped over and exploded in the Democratic Republic of Congo, a government spokesman said Saturday.

Hang on, now i don't care much for drilling in the arctic and give my money to Greenpeace but...

the story your talking about here was the driver and the locals fault; he crashed, spilled oil and the locals went in to collect the free oil whilst smoking and BOOM! That has nothing to do with the Oil and Gas companies.

The figures regarding Nigeria as GF correctly points out are in fact due to bunkering, This is criminals breaking the pipe, refining the oil and selling back in-country for profit. That also has nothing to do with the Oil and Gas companies and in fact is costing them Millions in lost revenue and security.

It doesn't make the oil companies blameless but on these two counts its not all their fault.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Which leads to another question, if buying goods from Kenya helps to boost their economy by providing work, from the growers to those transporting the goods. How would getting rid of the demand for these types of goods being exported to other countries affect Kenya's population? Would it send more people into poverty.

The question regarding wasted food maybe should also be, what happens to it afterwards? - does it get recycled into fertilizer, used to produce energy (using the methane given off) etc, or does it go into landfill

It's a good point on the first bit. I don't know enough to discuss figures.

I spent 5 weeks in Malawi and went round a tobacco factory. Each bale of tobacco (back in '99) was being sold for $100ish. Each bale could produce 1,000,000 cigarettes. I also visited the fields and saw the women (one had a baby in the field whilst we were there) earning utter pittance. Their diet consisted on nsima (spelling?) which was a porridgey type substance and little else - life expectancy was in the mid 40s. Would they be better off growing crops to feed their population and not fill the pockets of the landowners/farmers?

There doesn't seem to be a specific answer as to where food waste ends up, certainly something that is perhaps unquantifiable.

It's not just scraps off the plate...

http://www.imeche.org/knowledge/themes/environment/global-food

Today, we produce about four billion metric tonnes of food per annum. Yet due to poor practices in harvesting, storage and transportation, as well as market and consumer wastage, it is estimated that 30–50% (or 1.2–2 billion tonnes) of all food produced never reaches a human stomach. Furthermore, this figure does not reflect the fact that large amounts of land, energy, fertilisers and water have also been lost in the production of foodstuffs which simply end up as waste. This level of wastage is a tragedy that cannot continue if we are to succeed in the challenge of sustainably meeting our future food demands.

I'm convinced there is enough money in the world to ensure that people have access to a decent diet, but there is not the will.

Sadly, promises are broken from 'interested parties'. I take great interest in Ecuador, having spent 4 months there and sadly the pledges have not materialised to protect another part of the rainforest. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-23722204

 

[Doc Lynam]

Hang on, now i don't care much for drilling in the arctic and give my money to Greenpeace but...

the story your talking about here was the driver and the locals fault; he crashed, spilled oil and the locals went in to collect the free oil whilst smoking and BOOM! That has nothing to do with the Oil and Gas companies.

The figures regarding Nigeria as GF correctly points out are in fact due to bunkering, This is criminals breaking the pipe, refining the oil and selling back in-country for profit. That also has nothing to do with the Oil and Gas companies and in fact is costing them Millions in lost revenue and security.

It doesn't make the oil companies blameless but on these two counts its not all their fault.

First point: Error from where ever it comes is what im referring to regarding possible environmental damage why does it have to come directly from the oil company? It can also be indirect. Second: As for the pipeline if they can't control the patrolling of the line and protection to the environment and surrounding people they have no right to take it.

 

[fataddick]

I hate eco hippies but I hate car owning scum far more, so on this instance only I am Team Greenpeace. Good one.

 

[Creaky]

Worrying that it was possible to install two remote activated devices at such a high profile event without detection - if Greenpeace can manage that then so can less well meaning groups!

 

[yxee]

I for one will be devastated if I can't take my annual holiday to the Arctic due to the presence of a drill.

 

[beorhthelm]

3% of crude oil use goes towards plastic manufacturing. We could do away with oil in transport and electricity generation, hugely reducing our dependence on it.

theres more to it than plastics, a great deal of the chemicals industry relies on oil based feedstock for other products. in terms of value, the non-fuel oil products are worth more than the burning type.

Manufacturing uses oil? I thought they made everything out off crystals; no wait a minute that's superman! I do appreciate the science test and yes i did realise that! That's why i said to start with at the end, just because we currently use oil in different forms in different products doesn't mean for one minute that its beyond the wit of man to start find alternatives.

maybe man has/is trying and it is beyond our wit. some chemicals, polymers, fuels etc can be synthesised from organic oil sources. but then your competeing with food sources. is that a clever idea?

 

[maltaseagull]

Loved the timing of the 2nd Banner