During your brief trip/s to Spain, did you encounter non-British coaches and parents? If yes, did they exhibit the aggression and control freakery you’d witnessed here?
[Football] Behaviour at kids Sunday morning football
- Thread starter Peacehaven Wild Kids
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During your brief trip/s to Spain, did you encounter non-British coaches and parents? If yes, did they exhibit the aggression and control freakery you’d witnessed here?
Peacehaven Wild Kids
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #22
As I said, thus far he’s had no serious issues and he is aware he does need to have a bit of a thick skin and try not to take it personally etc but like I say, it doesn’t appear to be a pleasurable experience and I think looking back to when I was his age I would have probably jacked it in by now.
Cheshire Cat
The most curious thing..
Spiros
Well-known member
A few years ago I volunteered as a ref for a kids 5 a side tournament in Worthing as they were short of refs. I was mainly allocated the youngest age groups and the kids themselves were fine. There was the occasional gobby parent but I wasn’t prepared for the level of abuse I got from a couple of the coaches. And this was at a ‘fun’ summer tournament.
From my past experience the county FAs have some responsibility here. 25/30 years ago I was on the disciplinary committee of a local league. We had the odd instance of players being sent off for assaulting refs. Each time we issued a long or even permanent ban to the offending player and each time the County FA overturned it on appeal. This wasn’t just for a bit of shoving or even a punch. I remember one case where the offending player did time for his assault but successfully overturned his playing ban.
I don’t always like what the refs do but I look at it as a job I wouldn’t do.
From my past experience the county FAs have some responsibility here. 25/30 years ago I was on the disciplinary committee of a local league. We had the odd instance of players being sent off for assaulting refs. Each time we issued a long or even permanent ban to the offending player and each time the County FA overturned it on appeal. This wasn’t just for a bit of shoving or even a punch. I remember one case where the offending player did time for his assault but successfully overturned his playing ban.
I don’t always like what the refs do but I look at it as a job I wouldn’t do.
Sirnormangall
Well-known member
- Sep 21, 2017
- 2,995
Sorry to hear about your lad’s experience. Kids football has some great volunteers and parents but it also continues to attract morons (coaches and parents) who make it difficult for referees and clubs. There’s part of me that says “well done” to Northumberland FA - but some of the threatened sanctions will simply punish the innocent kids. It needs the silent majority of spectators to speak up more and challenge the behaviours of the aggressive coaches and parents- but I accept you need to be brave to do that!As the father of a 14 year old child Ref, this has caught my eye. He’s still learning his trade and touch wood he’s had no serious issues so far, however there is still that undercurrent, and I wouldn’t say his experience so far has been pleasurable as some of the coaches at the very least make him feel uncomfortable, If you are one of those coaches of an U11 team but think you’re managing Chelsea, I’ll happily forward you the lengthy list of kids matches that are postponed every Sunday due to no available ref.
NB he gets little support from the linesman as they are simply volunteers so might be a coach from one of the teams or even a parent who is usually biased or not up to date with rules and procedures.
As a side issue, anyone that thinks he’s doing it for the money, after the cost of the two day course he did, his equipment, shirt, shorts, socks, two pairs of boots etc. he might start turning a profit by about 2025
[the following was taken from Facebook]
One of the largest youth leagues in the country has today put the following statement out to all member clubs.
"The behaviour and conduct of far too many players, managers, coaches, and spectators is the worst we have ever seen in the history of the Northumberland Football League.
The discipline reports coming in over the first 10 weeks of the season, just to Northumberland Football Leagues, have given us and the County FA an incredible amount of work, on top of everything else we do to keep you playing football.
I am not going to lecture adults on how they should behave, it's not my job to teach you the difference between right and wrong, but what I will say is THIS BEHAVIOUR STOPS, AND IT STOPS NOW!
Starting from Saturday 18th November, any team found guilty of any discipline, welfare or misconduct charge WILL BE REMOVED FROM FIXTURES. If those fixtures include cup/competition games, then you will forfeit your place in those competitions.
Teams playing at central venues where parents are found to be acting in an unsuitable manner, verbally or physically abusing/ shouting at a referee, steward, league official, venue staff or opposition coaches/managers, the club in question will have EVERY PARENT/GUARDIAN/SPECTATOR from every team banned from every central venue.
This is children’s football - there is no place for abuse of any type - if you cannot watch a group of children playing football without feeling the need to abuse/shout at a child be they a player or a referee, or you cannot spend an hour and a half without swearing at the opposition coach or confronting a group of parents - then please ask yourself if you have chosen the correct way to spend your weekends.
We are a Respect League and Respect towards players, the officials and each other is the minimum standard which we will accept - NO RESPECT = NO GAME."
For and on behalf of the league management committee,
Lee Scott
League Secretary
#EnoughIsEnough
Fignon's Ponytail
Well-known member
We didn't go on the trip so another couple took our son with them. They played an Academy squad at Espanyols training ground, so no spectators there apart from our parents as far as Im aware....certainly no trouble either.
Ali_rrr
Well-known member
I did some refereeing for a bit on Sundays whilst I was at sixth form as a few on here may remember (actually for a couple in this thread). I think the issue is the County FAs are trying their best but at the end of the day you are 1 person against 22 (if not more) on any given match.
I never had too much hassle in fairness and if I did, I'd shut it down fairly quickly. It did help me build a thick skin but I don't think everybody is suited to it and the only way forward is clubs themselves need to come down harder on their own people if they want referees to continue. Or the same problems will continue to happen.
The absolute worst offenders are these 'academies.' Not professional ones, but the ones that advertise themselves in a way that gives parents and kids a belief that they are going to make it because they pay a substantial sum of money to play every month.
I never had too much hassle in fairness and if I did, I'd shut it down fairly quickly. It did help me build a thick skin but I don't think everybody is suited to it and the only way forward is clubs themselves need to come down harder on their own people if they want referees to continue. Or the same problems will continue to happen.
The absolute worst offenders are these 'academies.' Not professional ones, but the ones that advertise themselves in a way that gives parents and kids a belief that they are going to make it because they pay a substantial sum of money to play every month.
Like others I used to ref and run the line for my son's games back in the 1990s/2000s. And like others I've seen shocking behaviour, 95% of it from parents.
I used to say back then that you could lose 99% of the bad behaviour by scrapping all the leagues and cups and not letting kids play formal, competitive games until they're about 16. Let's see how riled the parents (and the wannabe Bill Shanklys) get when there isn't a cheap plastic trophy on offer.
At the same time as my son was playing my friend's nephew was a youth player for Dieppe. Whether it was just the age group or not I don't know but they didn't play organised games against other clubs. They played on a pitch marked out with plastic discs, and the goalposts were things like cricket stumps mounted on a spring so they rocked. If the ball hit them it was impossible to know if it was a goal or not, ditto any high shots as well obviously. The match I saw frequently stopped as coaches came on to explain points, and they even swapped some of the players around. I thought it was just a training game, but no, it was a match against another club.
I used to say back then that you could lose 99% of the bad behaviour by scrapping all the leagues and cups and not letting kids play formal, competitive games until they're about 16. Let's see how riled the parents (and the wannabe Bill Shanklys) get when there isn't a cheap plastic trophy on offer.
At the same time as my son was playing my friend's nephew was a youth player for Dieppe. Whether it was just the age group or not I don't know but they didn't play organised games against other clubs. They played on a pitch marked out with plastic discs, and the goalposts were things like cricket stumps mounted on a spring so they rocked. If the ball hit them it was impossible to know if it was a goal or not, ditto any high shots as well obviously. The match I saw frequently stopped as coaches came on to explain points, and they even swapped some of the players around. I thought it was just a training game, but no, it was a match against another club.
ROSM
Well-known member
I used to ref (and indeed have done so a few times in last 2 years for u15s and u16s), coached for 10 years and now run the line for u15s.
My son has recently started as a level 7 ref so can do up to county league (but is focussing at youth football for now). He is already a much better ref than i ever was.
I always reffed, ran line or coached with honesty. Nothing annoys me more than parent/coach linos who either dont know rules or who pull the wool over a refs eyes with non existant offsides.
I stopped coaching due to parents. I wasnt a great player so there fore not a great coach but I was always fair. Boys who hadnt had opportunities who then became competetent footballers and had fun made me happier than those with ability. Not all parents see it that way and some of the backstabbing that happens was awful.
I can only ever remember being upset with a ref once and commenting after a game and that was where they were a players brother and deliberately overuled consistently a qualified asst ref on throw ins and fouls and then mocked them when after the game she commented on how she had been ignored by them. I hadnt been aggressive or used bad language but it wasnt my proudest moment and i did apologise after to the club and the official.
My next to last game i reffed had been relatively uneventful. 2 firm challenges that i played an advantage on (spoke to the players after) and a couple of appeals for fouls i didnt give. Then there was a last minute penalty - the defending team appealed for offside but their lino didnt flag and when I looked across and asked he shook his head. By that time the tackler had punched the player he had fouled and bedlam broke out. The ultimately losing team parents werent happy and some choice comments made. In all honesty i could have handled the situation better with my positioning after giving the pen. However it didnt justify the abuse I got.
There are also some teams areas that will always have problems. Eastbourne area teams seem to all have issues as does coldean. Ive seen young female refs at tournaments reduced to tears by them as well as newly appointed refs being abused by coaches. Sadly leagues and fa dont always want to act. Some clubs will, there are others that dont and see it almost as a millwall style 'no one likes us we dont care' badge of honour.
My son has recently started as a level 7 ref so can do up to county league (but is focussing at youth football for now). He is already a much better ref than i ever was.
I always reffed, ran line or coached with honesty. Nothing annoys me more than parent/coach linos who either dont know rules or who pull the wool over a refs eyes with non existant offsides.
I stopped coaching due to parents. I wasnt a great player so there fore not a great coach but I was always fair. Boys who hadnt had opportunities who then became competetent footballers and had fun made me happier than those with ability. Not all parents see it that way and some of the backstabbing that happens was awful.
I can only ever remember being upset with a ref once and commenting after a game and that was where they were a players brother and deliberately overuled consistently a qualified asst ref on throw ins and fouls and then mocked them when after the game she commented on how she had been ignored by them. I hadnt been aggressive or used bad language but it wasnt my proudest moment and i did apologise after to the club and the official.
My next to last game i reffed had been relatively uneventful. 2 firm challenges that i played an advantage on (spoke to the players after) and a couple of appeals for fouls i didnt give. Then there was a last minute penalty - the defending team appealed for offside but their lino didnt flag and when I looked across and asked he shook his head. By that time the tackler had punched the player he had fouled and bedlam broke out. The ultimately losing team parents werent happy and some choice comments made. In all honesty i could have handled the situation better with my positioning after giving the pen. However it didnt justify the abuse I got.
There are also some teams areas that will always have problems. Eastbourne area teams seem to all have issues as does coldean. Ive seen young female refs at tournaments reduced to tears by them as well as newly appointed refs being abused by coaches. Sadly leagues and fa dont always want to act. Some clubs will, there are others that dont and see it almost as a millwall style 'no one likes us we dont care' badge of honour.
- Jun 27, 2012
- 14,019
There's some mixed responses here but although its not always easy - then i've had some great experiences being involved in a grassroots youth club and coaching all ages - but now mostly Year 1s and 2s. I think what helps is good leadership at clubs and i'm lucky to be part of a great club with some brilliant volunteers - setting high standards, supporting coaches and parents when it gets difficult, and stressing that being able to play, friendship, and fun are the bigger picture rather than a disallowed goal or free kick or defeat.
I think the FA, financial support and approach has also got better over the last 13 or so years i've been involved (smaller sided football and pitches, campaigns against abuse/racism, sanctions, facility help, grants to improve pitches ) - but agreed with general tone on here that finding refs is as hard as ever and you will bump into behaviour thats hard to defend from parents and sometimes other coaches. However its not all abuse that is a challenge. Simple logistics (££, travel - especially in Sussex leagues) and finding a local club with space and the right values is also not easy. Winters full of rain leading to abandoned games is also frustrating given that there are so few all weather pitches / facilities available.
But if ever asked if you should volunteer and help a club or become a coach - then i'd always say. Do it.
I think the FA, financial support and approach has also got better over the last 13 or so years i've been involved (smaller sided football and pitches, campaigns against abuse/racism, sanctions, facility help, grants to improve pitches ) - but agreed with general tone on here that finding refs is as hard as ever and you will bump into behaviour thats hard to defend from parents and sometimes other coaches. However its not all abuse that is a challenge. Simple logistics (££, travel - especially in Sussex leagues) and finding a local club with space and the right values is also not easy. Winters full of rain leading to abandoned games is also frustrating given that there are so few all weather pitches / facilities available.
But if ever asked if you should volunteer and help a club or become a coach - then i'd always say. Do it.
emphyrian
Active member
I coach at u17s at the moment and have just done my ref course purely for when no ref is appointed.
I make a point of speaking to both teams (even though one is mine) both sets of coaches and both sets of parents before I ref. I let them know that I will allow play to continue after a challenge to see where it goes, that I will allow play to run when offside is given to a player not involved in the attack and the I will ask the linsperson to explain what was offside before I make my decision. I try to keep yellow and red cards in the pocket and instead ask the coach to sub the player off (if they refuse then I issue the red). I let players know I am happy to explain why I gave or didn't give the free kick but I wont have any grief from them if they don't like my explanation. I ref the game straight down the line, no bias towards my team (my son says I actually favour our opponents most times). So far I've only had one angry outburst from a Lino who called offside on a player who had run from behind me to latch onto a through ball so was no way offside. When I asked him to explain what had happened he couldn't give me a good reason to disallow the goal so I awarded it and he threw his flag at me. I carried on the match without a Lino on that side and it worked better as he was no help anyway.
I make a point of speaking to both teams (even though one is mine) both sets of coaches and both sets of parents before I ref. I let them know that I will allow play to continue after a challenge to see where it goes, that I will allow play to run when offside is given to a player not involved in the attack and the I will ask the linsperson to explain what was offside before I make my decision. I try to keep yellow and red cards in the pocket and instead ask the coach to sub the player off (if they refuse then I issue the red). I let players know I am happy to explain why I gave or didn't give the free kick but I wont have any grief from them if they don't like my explanation. I ref the game straight down the line, no bias towards my team (my son says I actually favour our opponents most times). So far I've only had one angry outburst from a Lino who called offside on a player who had run from behind me to latch onto a through ball so was no way offside. When I asked him to explain what had happened he couldn't give me a good reason to disallow the goal so I awarded it and he threw his flag at me. I carried on the match without a Lino on that side and it worked better as he was no help anyway.
Milano
Well-known member
I love football, I have nothing but respect for grassroots refs, without them we have no sport. No chance would/could I do that job, it wouldn't end well for anyone.
In my experience as a spectator the problem starts with the parents. Normally if they think their kid has a 'chance', which in 99.99% of the cases they haven't.
This then cascades to the kid who due to their stupid parents also believes that they have a 'chance'. The life impact in their mid-late teens when realization occurs is akin to child abuse IMO.
Then the parents/kid put pressure on the coach. Winning becomes everything.
I also find that the more 'middle' class these parents are the pointier their elbows become. Twats.
In my experience as a spectator the problem starts with the parents. Normally if they think their kid has a 'chance', which in 99.99% of the cases they haven't.
This then cascades to the kid who due to their stupid parents also believes that they have a 'chance'. The life impact in their mid-late teens when realization occurs is akin to child abuse IMO.
Then the parents/kid put pressure on the coach. Winning becomes everything.
I also find that the more 'middle' class these parents are the pointier their elbows become. Twats.
um bongo molongo
Well-known member
Good letter imo. Hope they follow through on it. I was a fan of the clampdown on dissent seen in the PL in the first few weeks of the season, but as many predicted, the already seem to have backed down on thatAs the father of a 14 year old child Ref, this has caught my eye. He’s still learning his trade and touch wood he’s had no serious issues so far, however there is still that undercurrent, and I wouldn’t say his experience so far has been pleasurable as some of the coaches at the very least make him feel uncomfortable, If you are one of those coaches of an U11 team but think you’re managing Chelsea, I’ll happily forward you the lengthy list of kids matches that are postponed every Sunday due to no available ref.
NB he gets little support from the linesman as they are simply volunteers so might be a coach from one of the teams or even a parent who is usually biased or not up to date with rules and procedures.
As a side issue, anyone that thinks he’s doing it for the money, after the cost of the two day course he did, his equipment, shirt, shorts, socks, two pairs of boots etc. he might start turning a profit by about 2025
[the following was taken from Facebook]
"The behaviour and conduct of far too many players, managers, coaches, and spectators is the worst we have ever seen in the history of the Northumberland Football League.
The discipline reports coming in over the first 10 weeks of the season, just to Northumberland Football Leagues, have given us and the County FA an incredible amount of work, on top of everything else we do to keep you playing football.
I am not going to lecture adults on how they should behave, it's not my job to teach you the difference between right and wrong, but what I will say is THIS BEHAVIOUR STOPS, AND IT STOPS NOW!
Starting from Saturday 18th November, any team found guilty of any discipline, welfare or misconduct charge WILL BE REMOVED FROM FIXTURES. If those fixtures include cup/competition games, then you will forfeit your place in those competitions.
Teams playing at central venues where parents are found to be acting in an unsuitable manner, verbally or physically abusing/ shouting at a referee, steward, league official, venue staff or opposition coaches/managers, the club in question will have EVERY PARENT/GUARDIAN/SPECTATOR from every team banned from every central venue.
This is children’s football - there is no place for abuse of any type - if you cannot watch a group of children playing football without feeling the need to abuse/shout at a child be they a player or a referee, or you cannot spend an hour and a half without swearing at the opposition coach or confronting a group of parents - then please ask yourself if you have chosen the correct way to spend your weekends.
We are a Respect League and Respect towards players, the officials and each other is the minimum standard which we will accept - NO RESPECT = NO GAME."
For and on behalf of the league management committee,
Lee Scott
League Secretary
#EnoughIsEnough
Sirnormangall
Well-known member
- Sep 21, 2017
- 2,995
Whenever I’m asked to ref a youth football match, if it’s u12 and over I make a point of saying to players, parents and coaches ( before the match) that I’m a volunteer, I don’t really want to do it, I’m happy for someone else to do it if they think they’d be better and that I will make mistakes but they will be honest unbiased mistakes. I suppose that my age, size and demeanour also helps to keep things calm - but I shouldn’t have to say all that and it shouldn’t be necessary.