Attila and St. George's Day Bash...

[Lord Bracknell]

This thread sent me off in search of a fine old song that celebrates Englishness in an interesting way.

It's called "When This Old Hat Was New". It's about how the times of plenty have given way to times of hardship. Nothing in it about thanking the monarchy for the good times.

I give you just the final verse:-

When the Romans ruled this land,
The commons they did give
To the poor in charity
To help them for to live.

But the poor are quite done o'er -
O we know it to be true,
And it was not so when Noll did reign
And this old hat was new,
When this old hat was new

Noll is Oliver Cromwell. And the song has another answer to the question "What did the Romans ever do for us?" Answer ... gave the people the common land.

 

[Gwylan]

it is quite interesting that (unless some clever dickie can contradict me) we are the only country who has a National Anthem about a Monarch rather than the country

I'm pretty sure that we're the only major country that lauds our monachy in such a way.

What about an anthem for us republicans?

 

[attila]

It was an evening organised by the excellent Philosophy Football people whose main man is Mark Perryman, who also runs a lot of good positive stuff at England away games. The whole idea is to reclaim St. George's Day and the flag from the far right. Bloody good idea. They invited me. Bit unfair of you to say my Albion stuff didn't go down well, as it goes....it did, I'm happy to say!!! And nearly everyone joined in with gusto to 'She Lives In Slough'

(written, as it said on the songsheet, by my mate Robb Johnson, not yours truly)


If one follows your logic, Pavillionnaire, then to be an Albion supporter means
you have to support Brighton and Hove Council! I'm a Brighton fan ''cos I'm from Brighton (well, Southwick) and an England fan 'cos I'm English. Simple as that!


And if you felt strongly enough to post to NSC...why the hell didn't you take it up with me on the night?

Oh, by the way, for those interested...

SHE LIVES IN SLOUGH!

God save our gracious Queen
Long live our noble queen
She lives in Slough!
Right by the motorway, just a stone’s throw away
From where the refugees all stay
She lives in Slough!

She’s just like you & me
With a posh lavatory
She lives in Slough!
Tourists & tyrants know
It’s handy for Heathrow
She wears a hat & says : hello.
She lives in Slough!

And though she owns Balmoral
And her income’s immoral
She lives in Slough!
She probably likes the view
And a good saag aloo
She probably votes Labour too...
She lives in Slough!

(Robb Johnson)

 

[London Irish]

Not good publicity for the Albion, in my book.

Well, in my book, excellent publicity for the Albion, we are very lucky to have Attila, someone needs to write a poem about him one of these days.......

As for alternative anthems, it's a big problem. Land and Hope of Glory is just more dull, boring Royalist tosh. Jerusalem is a cracking song, William Blake being the kind of drug-addled socialist I can really look up to, but sadly it's too religious and a bit too associated now with public school wankers.

There's no alternative, it has to be Vindaloo...........oh, OK, Three Lions........Bucks Fizz's Making Your Mind Up?......Billy Bragg's New England........The The's 51st State of the USA...........no, I'm stumped.

 

[The Large One]

All Together Now by The Farm?

 

[Pavilionaire]

Attila, who's seeking to reclaim the flag / St. George's Day from the Far Right? I wasn't aware that it was their property.

Anyone who watches sport will know that thousands of normal people already fly the flag with pride, i.e. the cricket in the West Indies, the rugby World Cup Down Under, England vs. Germany in Euro 2000. We've moved on since Euro 1996.

Personally, I think the Far Left are just as bad as the Far Right, and I don't see why St George's Day needs to be politicised in this way.

As far as having it out with you on the night is concerned, I was too busy drinking with my pals to argue the toss. You obviously have your views, which are well documented, and I have mine.

 

[fatbadger]

I don't see why St George's Day needs to be politicised in this way.

St George's Day is political - how could a national day be anything else? And, being political, there will be political debate over its meaning. For you, in the way you have politicised it, it is a celebration of monarchy, apparently; for others, it can be a celebration of the good things about England.

One day, hopefully, January 30th will be our national day, rather than April 23rd. After all, already there are considerably more republicans in this country than there are christians, so it already makes more sense to have the anniversary of the foundation of our one republican experiment as a national day, rather than the anniversary of the martyrdom of a christian whose life (and martyrdom) has very little relevance to anybody in England.

 

[Ernest]

Atilla = left wing hippy who hates this country

 

[fatbadger]

Atilla = left wing hippy who hates this country

Ernest = thick twat who can't read, or at least can't understand the things he reads.

 

[Titanic]

Much as it galls me to say it - the Aussies have one of the best anthems. it's in a comfortable singing register; a stirring brass band stylee tune; and the words are OK - with the word Australia very prominent.

The two verses commonly used...

Australians all let us rejoice,
For we are young and free;
We've golden soil and wealth for toil,
Our home is girt by sea;
Our land abounds in Nature's gifts
Of beauty rich and rare;
In history's page, let every stage
Advance Australia fair!
In joyful strains then let us sing,
"Advance Australia fair!"

Beneath our radiant southern Cross,
We'll toil with hearts and hands;
To make this Commonwealth of ours
Renowned of all the lands;
For those who've come across the seas
We've boundless plains to share;
With courage let us all combine
To advance Australia fair.
In joyful strains then let us sing
"Advance Australia fair!"

They had a competition for suggestions (both old and new), and then a referendum.

We don't have to abandon 'God save our gracious Queen' as a theme tune for the monarchy - a bit like the USA have 'Hail to the Chief', but we should have an English national anthem.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Not as good as Spike Milligan's entry in the "Write a National Anthem for Oz" competition:-

Australia, Australia, we think of you each day,
Australia, Australia, at work and at play,
We think of you in the evening and in the morning, too,
I even wake up at midnight so that I can think of you.

Australia, Australia, we love you from the heart,
The liver, the kidneys, the giblets and every other part.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Not sure about his idea for a new Australian flag, though:-

"Well the flag, as I see it, ought to be four quarters; one quarter of poker machines; one of a kangaroo bleeding in the spotlight; three a pile of beer bottles and four a pile of beer cans".

 

[Pavilionaire]

I had an Australian mate who hated Advance Australia Fair and thought God Save The Queen was much better. I agree - short, punchy and to the point, it doesn't drone on like a lot of these others.

Fatbadger, I disagree with you that St. George's Day is inherently political - are you saying that St. Patrick's Day is political as well? Clearly not, and I can't see the difference between that and St George's Day.

A lot of people talk a lot about having a republic and how unfair it is to have a monarchy - the point is, the British system WORKS!

The idea that the majority of British people hate the monarchy is a myth.

What we do hate is politicians and having to vote, to have people interfering in our lives. This is why, I believe, if there was a referendum on the monarchy the Queen would be endorsed by a comfortable majority.

And forget 30th Jan as our national day. One thing the French have got right is having their day in the middle of summer. Something more apt would be the anniversary of the 1966 World Cup Final, in July I believe.

 

[FG aka Football Genius.]

i see your point trouble is Atilla cant ever change the record like same old cr@p played every time at Withdean!!

 

[Lord Bracknell]

What we do hate is politicians and having to vote, to have people interfering in our lives.

That's the tragedy of Britain today. People have become disengaged from the political process.

I come from a family that - for generations - saw politics as a process that was worth being involved in. It meant voting for politicians who would represent us and make things better, not politicians who would just "interfere in our lives".

Things did get better when our representatives were in power - whether on the local council or in national government. These days, no-one seems to think it makes much difference.

How can we recapture that relationship between politicians and real people? I wish I knew. I have a feeling that, these days, we just see ourselves as "consumers" - and the political process is just another product that we consume (or choose not to consume).

 

[Brovion]

...
One day, hopefully, January 30th will be our national day, rather than April 23rd. After all, already there are considerably more republicans in this country than there are christians, so it already makes more sense to have the anniversary of the foundation of our one republican experiment as a national day, rather than the anniversary of the martyrdom of a christian whose life (and martyrdom) has very little relevance to anybody in England. [/B]

True, another example of the historical bias is that people are taught (if they are taught at all) about the post-revolution excessess and so why the Republican experiment was a 'bad thing'. (Isn't this your Period btw? )

Until the glorious day when we re-establish the English Republic I'll have to settle for re-claiming 'England' from the far-right. 'God save the Queen' and 'No surrender to the IRA' should mean mean nothing to a true Englishman.

 

[fatbadger]

Fatbadger, I disagree with you that St. George's Day is inherently political - are you saying that St. Patrick's Day is political as well? Clearly not, and I can't see the difference between that and St George's Day.

Er...How can I respond to that? Of course St. Patrick's day - just like all other national days - is political!

The idea that the majority of British people hate the monarchy is a myth.

What we do hate is politicians and having to vote, to have people interfering in our lives. This is why, I believe, if there was a referendum on the monarchy the Queen would be endorsed by a comfortable majority.

You are, of course, right on this. I wouldn't question it. It's a shame - no, it's worse than a shame, it's a bloody disgrace and a shocking indictment of British politics - but no less true for that.

Still, I will happily reassert that there are more republicans in this country than there are christians and that, therefore, January 30th is relevant to more people than a celebration of a christian martyr.

 

[Gwylan]

I disagree with you that St. George's Day is inherently political - are you saying that St. Patrick's Day is political as well? Clearly not, and I can't see the difference between that and St George's Day.

Of course, St Patrick's Day isn't inherently political but there's a big difference between Paddy's day and St George's. Ireland was a colonised country and the national day is just one way that it maintained its identity in a period of English repression. Celebrating St George's Day is clearly a political gesture.

Some kids at Mrs Gwylan's school wanted to celebrate the day and came in wearing the flag of St George (in direct contravention of school rules), so the flags were confiscated.

A harsh punishment? Sounds like it until one considers that these were white kids in a school that's more than 80 percent non-white, in an area where the BNP has been trying to stir up racial unrest and where the flag flies from BNP-friendly pub. I'm not suggesting for one minute that the kids were BNP supporters or racist (and the school didn't suggest it) but it shows that what seems like an innocent gesture can have different undertones.

But I can't agree with Fatbadger's suggestion. I'm no monarchist but don't see Cromwell's regime as anything to celebrate. He was an anti-Irish, genocidal, religious bigot who unleashed a period of repression on the British people at least as bad as anything that went before.

If we should celebrate anything, let's celebrate the establishment of the Diggers' colony on St George's Hill on 1 April 1649. I think that April Fools would be a highly appropriate national day for us all.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Personally, I don't see what's political about piling down to the pub on 17th March to get plastered on 10 pints of Guinness.

There's not much evidence of party politics, just a big of flag-waving, muppets dressed up as leprechauns, dusting off The Best Of The Pogues and away you go.

Or have I missed something?

 

[Barnet Seagull]

Cromwell was an arse
The Royals are an arse
Politicians are an arse.

St George on the other hand, ruddy nice bloke.