[Albion] Atmosphere vs forest

[portlock seagull]

Not this old chestnut again!

 

[portlock seagull]

Admittedly I was in the worst location (E1G) with my two boys and all the other parents and kids but I thought the Forest fans were incredibly loud and we were incredibly quiet last night. Exceptionally so.
I've been to a fair few games that fell into the subdued, frustrated category including the ones with Potter booing and all the games before he taught them to score goals - but last night was bad from where I was.
Yes this is a topic that comes and goes and this is not about clackers, drums, flags etc I just wanted to see what others in the ground thought last night?

I am of the strong opinion that there are three things that would help.
1. The North stand singing as one, not split into two sections. Seriously - how could that be fixed? Or is it really impossible to unite the key figures in the sections that create the noise
2. Moving the away fans - not giving them an entire unified section
3. Safe standing in the North Stand. Far easier to sing standing. Last time I was in the North v spurs, the East side (of the NS) were mainly sitting and the west side were mainly standing. This also emphasised further the split into two groups.

Other personal views.
Bin fan zone - a festival of cringe.
Bin Hey Jude - it's a gift to the away fans.
GOSBTS lyrics confusion. Having the full, traditional words on screen has the effect of tripping up a lot of those wanting to join in, until in the last verse when the music cuts to crowd only and the words are easier for all. If having the words on screen, they could be simplified. I'm not sure that a lot of the crowd want to sing about bugles and hearts being gay (in the traditional sense).
To pre-empt the "why do the north stand need to be the cheerleaders", "why don't the east and west contribute" replies. I think it does need to be led for the rest to join in. Even last night there were a couple of brief moments when we could slightly be heard above the forest din and it spread a bit out to the East and...we joined in. Then it died off quickly.

On the point about Leadership, you can drag the horse to water and all that. The West Stand when I sit up there are appalling quiet. You just have to admit our fans are mostly quiet sensible devoid of outward emotion types - nothing wrong with that, each to their own. But hardcore loons in sizeable numbers we aren’t. And never have been. It’s Sussex not Serbia.

 

[Psychobilly freakout]

From the NW corner, I to be honest rarely heard Forest apart from several chants, but nothing special.
The first half was vocally better from the Albion fans, but as the game wore on and it seemed invetiable we were just going to be frustrated and huff and puff, the enthusiasm waned from the home support.
I think acoustically the Amex is pretty shocking, as said many times tie that in with, a small north stand, middle class prawn sandwich fans constantly moaning instead of getting behind the team, and frustration of a lack of urgency at times in the attack, we have a recipe for a dull atmosphere.

I am firmly in the Feckin BIG KETTLE camp, but it will never happen here, because folks don't like change, or look down their nose at teams that use them, they use them because they bloody work.

 

[jackalbion]

I've seen the three suggestions to improve (that I repeat at the start of this thread), many times over. Certainly not original - but trying to understand what it would take to implement one or more of them. No idea if the fans forum discusses this sort of thing? Or just giant flags. No idea what if any plans are in place / where this sits in terms of priority.
I emailed Paul Barber on the three points, acknowledging that 2 and 3 were understandably more complex but number 1- is surely about getting the right people together. Obviously, this is not up to him/ the club to try and engineer atmosphere (I think that's certainly the wrong approach as with Fan Zone). The two separate singing groups - is this a Brighton thing? Who are the leaders / who knows them?

I think after visiting Germany for football in the week the difference in fan unity was outstanding. I know it’s a different culture, but if someone rocked up with a megaphone a load of blokes who used to smash up town centres in the 80s would moan that it’s tinpot, and not English. Something needs to be done to improve the atmosphere, but we are too much of a gatekeeping fanbase, who seem to either resent anyone who didn’t go to Rochdale or Rotherham in the 2000s, or think anything new is the sign of the apocalypse. We’ll carry on being like that for a long time. A load of people were annoyed at a song about Jakub Moder because a Skoda is from the Czech Republic. I thought some ideas would be brought forward with the FAB but nothing, this isn’t on anyone on it, but it seems that it hasn’t improved anything fan wise, it just seems to have made us a more fragmented divided fanbase.

 

[theboybilly]

I was pleased with just how full the ground was when I walked up the steps after sinking my pint. Then my heart sank a little when the North Stand started the Mwepu tribute song. It was weak and lasted about 20 seconds. Brentford away it most certainly wasn't. Forest fans, for the most part, were good (never reaching the heights of the Toon fans mind) but we should have been getting behind our team more. We we playing excellent football again last night, I won't have that argued against. The team deserved better vocal support. We were battering a side in front of a lacklustre North Stand who really should have been rocking....smelling blood as it were. But no, hardly a chant went up

 

[goldstone]

Good, exciting football results in good atmosphere.
Poor football results in poor atmosphere.
It's as simple as that.

 

[Bold Seagull]

From the NW corner, I to be honest rarely heard Forest apart from several chants, but nothing special.
The first half was vocally better from the Albion fans, but as the game wore on and it seemed invetiable we were just going to be frustrated and huff and puff, the enthusiasm waned from the home support.
I think acoustically the Amex is pretty shocking, as said many times tie that in with, a small north stand, middle class prawn sandwich fans constantly moaning instead of getting behind the team, and frustration of a lack of urgency at times in the attack, we have a recipe for a dull atmosphere.

I am firmly in the Feckin BIG KETTLE camp, but it will never happen here, because folks don't like change, or look down their nose at teams that use them, they use them because they bloody work.

I was in NW last night next to the police box quite far back, and the group under there sing all game, and I mean all game. Fair play to them, sometimes it's only 20 of them but they keep it up and keep it positive. I then scan around much of the rest of the North stand within that area and so many don't join in. I'm not sure what else can be done as that contigent is doing their best to get a load of racket going.

 

[Bryanw42]

middle class prawn sandwich fan

What % of the fan base falls into the category in your opinion. Perhaps you think I'm one of them. In what year did this term come about? My mum (in her 70's) keeps rattling this one off. When she and dad took me along as a kid, prawn sandwiches obviously did not exist.
I think there's room for everyone, of all types and how much of a fan they are or become can also evolve. I took an extremely long hiatus from watching Brighton from about 1987 when I was old enough to stay at home alone (At the time, I decided I'd rather do that every Saturday) until 2013 when I started sporadically going once or twice a year with my brother (a fan) and probably had a prawn sandwich or two as I wasn't that interested in the football. Roll forward to just over a year ago when I started bringing my two eldest to see if they liked it and now there is little else that they and I think about. We cram in as many games as we can and are planning season tickets if my third eldest son takes to it as much as they have. I don't think this sporadic history makes me less worthy and due to my now all-consuming need to support this club makes me less of a fan than those that have consistently slogged it out from the Goldstone days without pause. I've gone from quietly nibbling my prawn sandwich to getting fully involved, singing throughout the away games I can get to without a season ticket. Quieter when with the kids in the East admittedly. My boys look like they will be fans for life. So in summary, sweeping judgements about prawn sandwich fans or plastics piss me right off. People can change.

 

[jackalbion]

What % of the fan base falls into the category in your opinion. Perhaps you think I'm one of them. In what year did this term come about? My mum (in her 70's) keeps rattling this one off. When she and dad took me along as a kid, prawn sandwiches obviously did not exist.
I think there's room for everyone, of all types and how much of a fan they are or become can also evolve. I took an extremely long hiatus from watching Brighton from about 1987 when I was old enough to stay at home alone (At the time, I decided I'd rather do that every Saturday) until 2013 when I started sporadically going once or twice a year with my brother (a fan) and probably had a prawn sandwich or two as I wasn't that interested in the football. Roll forward to just over a year ago when I started bringing my two eldest to see if they liked it and now there is little else that they and I think about. We cram in as many games as we can and are planning season tickets if my third eldest son takes to it as much as they have. I don't think this sporadic history makes me less worthy and due to my now all-consuming need to support this club makes me less of a fan than those that have consistently slogged it out from the Goldstone days without pause. I've gone from quietly nibbling my prawn sandwich to getting fully involved, singing throughout the away games I can get to without a season ticket. Quieter when with the kids in the East admittedly. My boys look like they will be fans for life. So in summary, sweeping judgements about prawn sandwich fans or plastics piss me right off. People can change.

I get a bit annoyed about the whole gatekeeping thing, it puts the newer fans off getting involved. When I was at school in the 2000s I was the only Brighton fan in my school. But when I got into Secondary and College, my mates started going because they had turned 15-16 and could start going in their own without parents, which happened to be 2011 when the stadium opened. While I occasionally take the piss how one of my mates used to support arsenal and man United, I’m happy that I’ve got a group of friends that I go with every week. Too many people are quick to cast judgement on the young and new fans who put just as much into supporting the club as others did. Yes a lot went through the war years, and were at Rochdale when no one else was, but most of my friends weren’t and now they wouldn’t miss a minute. I’ll forever be thankful to my mum and dad for paying for my ST from 6 YO until 18, but some weren’t as lucky to have interested parents. The Prawn Sandwich term is for those who are corporate fans I thought. I get what Physcobilly is saying, we have far too many people who turn up to moan rather than back the team. Just one look on Twitter and there’s a load of entitled 15-16 year olds moaning how Welbeck is finished, just negative negative all the time. If we want to improve the atmosphere turn up with positivity. As long as people come along and cheer for Brighton, it doesn’t bother me.

 

[Gazwag]

Admittedly I was in the worst location (E1G) with my two boys and all the other parents and kids but I thought the Forest fans were incredibly loud and we were incredibly quiet last night. Exceptionally so.
I've been to a fair few games that fell into the subdued, frustrated category including the ones with Potter booing and all the games before he taught them to score goals - but last night was bad from where I was.
Yes this is a topic that comes and goes and this is not about clackers, drums, flags etc I just wanted to see what others in the ground thought last night?

I am of the strong opinion that there are three things that would help.
1. The North stand singing as one, not split into two sections. Seriously - how could that be fixed? Or is it really impossible to unite the key figures in the sections that create the noise
2. Moving the away fans - not giving them an entire unified section
3. Safe standing in the North Stand. Far easier to sing standing. Last time I was in the North v spurs, the East side (of the NS) were mainly sitting and the west side were mainly standing. This also emphasised further the split into two groups.

Other personal views.
Bin fan zone - a festival of cringe.
Bin Hey Jude - it's a gift to the away fans.
GOSBTS lyrics confusion. Having the full, traditional words on screen has the effect of tripping up a lot of those wanting to join in, until in the last verse when the music cuts to crowd only and the words are easier for all. If having the words on screen, they could be simplified. I'm not sure that a lot of the crowd want to sing about bugles and hearts being gay (in the traditional sense).
To pre-empt the "why do the north stand need to be the cheerleaders", "why don't the east and west contribute" replies. I think it does need to be led for the rest to join in. Even last night there were a couple of brief moments when we could slightly be heard above the forest din and it spread a bit out to the East and...we joined in. Then it died off quickly.

Safe standing will not improve atmosphere

Away fans can't be moved due to stadium set up

There is only one version of SBTS don't understand the problem, surely fans know the words by now

 

[Psychobilly freakout]

What % of the fan base falls into the category in your opinion. Perhaps you think I'm one of them. In what year did this term come about? My mum (in her 70's) keeps rattling this one off. When she and dad took me along as a kid, prawn sandwiches obviously did not exist.
I think there's room for everyone, of all types and how much of a fan they are or become can also evolve. I took an extremely long hiatus from watching Brighton from about 1987 when I was old enough to stay at home alone (At the time, I decided I'd rather do that every Saturday) until 2013 when I started sporadically going once or twice a year with my brother (a fan) and probably had a prawn sandwich or two as I wasn't that interested in the football. Roll forward to just over a year ago when I started bringing my two eldest to see if they liked it and now there is little else that they and I think about. We cram in as many games as we can and are planning season tickets if my third eldest son takes to it as much as they have. I don't think this sporadic history makes me less worthy and due to my now all-consuming need to support this club makes me less of a fan than those that have consistently slogged it out from the Goldstone days without pause. I've gone from quietly nibbling my prawn sandwich to getting fully involved, singing throughout the away games I can get to without a season ticket. Quieter when with the kids in the East admittedly. My boys look like they will be fans for life. So in summary, sweeping judgements about prawn sandwich fans or plastics piss me right off. People can change.

Hi
I was not calling you personally Prawn Sandwich Fan, not sure why you get so defensive, in your brief description of following the Albion on and off, I personally think a lot of people fit in to that category, with life as it is and growing up, starting a family and introducing them to the Albion, hats off to you.

Defining a Prawn Sandwich fan to me, is the fan that comes along, maybe has a second team, moans about almost everything including it was more fun back in the day, when we all know they were not there, and who cares anyway. It almost seems they come along, because it's cool, I saw last night what I would consider a few PSF, several slipped away on 79 minutes, I mean come on, why bother, the trains and buses are not that bad, it was 0-0, I don't get it, sorry, take your silly brightly coloured beanie, tweed jacket, and logger boots and go home.

Prawn Sandwich Man is also the Dad that wears a Ramones or Clash T-Shirt, that was a square back in the day and would not have been seen dead at a punk or any other gig for that matter.

Grind my gears...

 

[Mustafa II]

Fans on this forum have often claimed that our fans are reactionary, which is true. The atmosphere is best when we are playing well, and it is abysmal when we're not.

But this becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Atmosphere has a massive influence over the performances of both the home and away teams.

I really hope one day that the Amex crowd will start to get this. When things aren't going well, this is when you really need to support the players - create a supportive atmosphere to inspire the players with confidence.

The Amex does this opposite. Our home form is unquestionably poorer than other clubs with more supportive home fans, because of our reactionary nature.

 

[BN41Albion]

New team in the Prem (after a few decades) in filling out the away end and making a racket shocker

Home team having a mare trying to score (for the 3 thousandth time over the last few seasons) and atmosphere dropping off a cliff significantly shocker

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Someone should come up with some ideas about how to fix it...

 

[Bryanw42]

I was not calling you personally Prawn Sandwich Fan, not sure why you get so defensive,

I think I'm still reeling from last night's frustrationathon. So, apologies for the reaction and thanks for clarifying prawn sandwich. I've heard it but never really paid attention to the meaning of it.

 

[Sea Cider]

One of the worst atmospheres I can remember last night (N1G), that despite lots of standing which usually helps things.

My feeling is that everyone is:
a) really disappointed at losing the momentum built under Potter and effectively regressing by 1-2 years
b) on some level imagining what could have been had we not been screwed by those twats up at Chelsea
c) unsure / nervous about what identity, if any, is going to emerge

Couple that with no goals against shit opposition and not much surprise poor atmosphere

Agreed Forest brilliant though "We're Nottingham Forest and we'll sing on our own" made me smile

 

[BrightonCottager]

Forest fans were great at the Cottage last season when they won 1-0. But we got our revenge last and this season by winning by the Trent. There is definitely an away advantage at a lot of grounds in terms of singing. I see this a lot at the Cottage (although it's better this season with the new stand keeping the sound in). And we made more noise than West Ham the other week at their place.

 

[Bryanw42]

Fair play to them, sometimes it's only 20 of them but they keep it up and keep it positive. I then scan around much of the rest of the North stand within that area and so many don't join in.

Fair play to them indeed and I noticed that group loud and clear when nearby in the west stand for Potter's last game. Fantastic job.
I was also sat on the opposite side to them in the NS for the spurs game and it felt at times like being in the East stand. I did my best help join things up and longed to be nearer but it was hard work with those (around me anyway) using their vocal chords for moaning

 

[BN41Albion]

Forest fans were great at the Cottage last season when they won 1-0. But we got our revenge last and this season by winning by the Trent. There is definitely an away advantage at a lot of grounds in terms of singing. I see this a lot at the Cottage (although it's better this season with the new stand keeping the sound in). And we made more noise than West Ham the other week at their place.

It's a problem up and down the country, home atmosphere. Reality is football has become very middle class and touristy, and bar a handful of grounds like Elland Road most English grounds have become very passive and reactive. Atmosphere has been pretty decent some games this season, but after everything thats gone on with Potter I think the enthusiasm has been lost at the moment. Need a goal and a win to change things again. Last night it was so obvious from so early on that we'd struggle to score despite having 80% possession. Thats not going to make for a rowdy atmosphere at the vast majority of grounds in this country nowadays. So called famous selhurst atmosphere would drop off a cliff in the same circumstances - its really not as good as what some make out.

At least our away support is very strong - always think we're excellent away from home - as shown by the difference between the mwepu chant at Brentford and then last night (which was really disappointing to be fair)

7.30 ko time is also shyte. Most people rushing to get there from work and just making it/late (esp with transport problems getting to the Amex ffs) - no time to have a drink and get up for the game etc

 

[faoileán]

Watching on the box we had a corner and it was just silent even in the old days a corner used to bring the seagulls chant.

probably because we have given up hoping that we'll ever score from a corner again...