[Albion] Article - Brighton’s Problems – Coaching or Poor Squad?

[Bold Seagull]

And therein lies the problem. Results.

I said this a bit after the Spurs game but Potter came 10th with Swansea when we poached him. The following season with a supposedly "lesser" coach in Ashworth's view Swansea came 6th. That magnificent performance against Man City in the Cup that fired up our interest? Swansea lost.

At some point the nice football and emotional intelligence has to start paying off because, what I have highlighted is that we should have the players for that to happen. But we currently look lovely in midfield, cannot defend set pieces and cannot take our chances. [MENTION=3743]seagullwedgee[/MENTION] has nailed that.

Sorry, but that Swansea team GP managed had the guts ripped out of it at the start of that season. He was giving debuts to various kids and it was a minor miracle they didn’t get relegated let along 10th. Although he wasn’t there, the legacy he left meant they were well on the up, able to invest from some biggish players sales and a huge amount of credit still goes to GP when they finished 6th. Take a bit more context if you’re going to make broad conclusions.

 

[The Fits]

I just don't understand why you wouldn't get a specialist forwards coach in.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Sorry, but that Swansea team GP managed had the guts ripped out of it at the start of that season. He was giving debuts to various kids and it was a minor miracle they didn’t get relegated let along 10th. Although he wasn’t there, the legacy he left meant they were well on the up, able to invest from some biggish players sales and a huge amount of credit still goes to GP when they finished 6th. Take a bit more context if you’re going to make broad conclusions.

That's often said but two of those youngsters were Rodon and Daniel James while they brought in more expensive players in the Potter season than in the 19/20 window. Have a look on Transfermarket.

 

[Crispy Ambulance]

I just don't understand why you wouldn't get a specialist forwards coach in.

Cancel the loan with Watford as the coach clearly doesn't fancy him & get Murray back as a specialist strikers coach.

 

[Bold Seagull]

That's often said but two of those youngsters were Rodon and Daniel James while they brought in more expensive players in the Potter season than in the 19/20 window. Have a look on Transfermarket.

They sold £50m worth of of the squad as Potter arrived. 16 or so players in the squad went. Potter was able to spend £7m to bring in 4 players, then he promoted up from the U23s and they had players back from out on loan inc. Rodon and James.

The following season was nothing like the same fire sale, they sold McBurnie for £19m, James for £18m. McBurnie in particular was transformed under Potter, as was James. With a more settled squad they strengthened from the loan market. It was no coincidence they kick started the season well. Both Cooper and Potter won 18 games in those respective seasons.

Again, there is more context than just Transfermarket.

 

[A mex eyecan]

Interesting assessments, but it’s 99% about the players as individuals, so you don’t really address the issue in your title, is it the coaching? Which is what I was hoping to read about.

I think we have some massive coaching shortfalls. First Burnley corner last night, zone defence, 5 defenders lined up on the six yard line, corner taker hangs it right under the bar and Ryan is completely unprotected. Absolute disaster of coaching, planning and rehearsal. If you have a 6 foot 7 keeper, fine, leave him unprotected to come and claim. Absolute basics.

Other end of the pitch, massive coaching issues. We don’t have a single offensive coaching expert on the coaching team. Potter was a left back, and god only knows what benny and Bjorne were, but not strikers for certain. Post match interview after Burnley, GP was pressed on low conversion rate. His answer, maybe we could have taken an extra touch or an extra pass? Jeezus frigging hell, an extra touch? An extra pass? Any striking coach worth their salt would look at our videos and conclude straight away we are taking too many touches, need to get shots off before the slide block. Or making too many passes trying to walk it into the net Arsenal style.

Third point, we are not being coached enough to be savvy and dirty in the trenches. Three examples of fouls against us in the last 2 games, where the player should have gone down at first contact. It’s what all teams do, except us, it’s called savvy. And dirt, grind, aggression, it’s nowhere, it’s all about look and polish.

I think we have massive coaching shortfalls. If GP was as good at the real micro detail of coaching talented players as he is at the ‘leadership and emotional intelligence techno b0ll0cks, then we would all be in a much better place.

Thank you for your player assessments, some interesting obersvations.

agree with this.
We seem hell bent on walking the ball into the goal, tippy tapping, far too many touches. Up against Premier league defenders, just ain’t gonna work when our strikers are at best bang average.

 

[Albion Dan]

This started off as a post but quickly grew to article length. It seeks to go through the main players in the squad one by one to answer the question of whether our current inability to win games lies with the players or the coach. Do we have a poor squad? Are we "too good to go down"? Are we just unlucky? Read and feel free to agree or disagree. Or don't. That's kinda the point of NSC.

https://www.northstandchat.com/content.php?869-Brighton%92s-Problems-%96-Coaching-or-Poor-Squad

[MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] can you provide a short link for Tapa pretty please?

I think we have a decent squad but to be honest your article lost my interest with the first paragraph about Matt Ryan. He is nowhere near good enough for any premier league team with any ambition and the stats around shots saved and set pieces conceded would more than support that statement.

 

[deslynhamsmoustache1]

The whole thing is based on a fallacy - that we have a problem. We don't. What we have is a work on progress, where we're putting together the pieces, working out what works and what doesn't and making or consistently, incrementally better. We have good coaching and a good squad.

But does it really take one and a half years to work out Dan Burn ain't no left back and Gross maybe well a tiny bit to slow? and that not many people at the club are any good at putting the ball in the net.

 

[Swansman]

And therein lies the problem. Results.

I said this a bit after the Spurs game but Potter came 10th with Swansea when we poached him. The following season with a supposedly "lesser" coach in Ashworth's view Swansea came 6th. That magnificent performance against Man City in the Cup that fired up our interest? Swansea lost.

At some point the nice football and emotional intelligence has to start paying off because, what I have highlighted is that we should have the players for that to happen. But we currently look lovely in midfield, cannot defend set pieces and cannot take our chances. [MENTION=3743]seagullwedgee[/MENTION] has nailed that.

That's often said but two of those youngsters were Rodon and Daniel James while they brought in more expensive players in the Potter season than in the 19/20 window. Have a look on Transfermarket.

warning: essay

Lets get some Swansea facts correct here and some context to the Potter/Cooper comparison.

Swansea GK Potter season:
Nordfeldt & Mulder, two backup keepers from the PL era who were nowhere good enough and subsequently got sold/released.

Swansea GK Cooper season:
Freddie Woodman (loan from NUFC), England U21 keeper and without a doubt one of the best keepers in the Championship.

Swansea defenders Potter season:
Connor Roberts, who had previously played 3 games for Swansea.
Kyle Naughton, good experienced defender.
Joe Rodon, 0 appearances before Potter came.
Mike VDH, great defender.
Cameron Carter-Vickers (loan from Tottenham), bang average with or without Potter.
Martin Olsson, tore his ACL in December.
Declan Rice, shit.

The team played for six months without a left back (Naughton filling in) as Olsson was injured. Three centre backs in the squad, one with no experience of senior football and one (CCV) who had previously failed to grab a starting position for Ipswich.

Defenders Cooper season:

Connor Roberts, Welsh international.
Kyle Naughton, still good.
Joe Rodon, one of the best centre backs in the league, Welsh international.
Mike VDH, great defender.
Marc Guehi (loan from Chelsea), England U21 player.
Ben Wilmots (loan from Watford), England U21 player.
Ben Cabango, promoted from the youth team.
Jake Bidwell, experienced left back.

So, the same players except for Olsson (replaced by Bidwell, who did not tear his ACL in December) and the addition of several central defenders. No longer any need to play the right back as left back or have some midfielder play as central defender.

Midfielders Potter season:
Bersant Celina, AMC signed from Man City. Flat-earther.
Leroy Fer, great midfielder but injured half of the season.
Matt Grimes, returning from a loan in League One.
George Byers, no previous experience of senior football.
Jay Fulton, no previous experience of senior football.
Tom Carroll, injured. Played two or three games.
Yan Dhanda, promising but too lightweight for the Championship.

Two experienced midfielders (Carroll & Fer), both injured most of the time, and a bunch of players who had never played on that level and not considered promising/talented (aside for Grimes, who was hyped way, way back).

Midfielders Cooper season:
Bersant Celina, proven quality midfielder.
Matt Grimes, one of the best Championship midfielders during the Potter season.
Jay Fulton, now with experience.
George Byers, now with experience.
Conor Gallagher (loan from Chelsea), England U21 player
Yan Dhanda, now with a bit of muscle.
Tom Carroll, still always injured.

While Fer was a great loss, Cooper got a midfield with significantly more experience (one 46 game Championship season rather than 0 senior appearances) and a great loan in Gallagher who is now playing in the PL.

Wingers Potter season
Nathan Dyer, considered way over the hill.
Wayne Routledge, same. Dire for years according to the Swansea crowd.
Luciano Narsingh, flop signing in the PL and the owners pressured Potter not to play him (appearance fee).
Joel Asoro, talented signing from Sunderland.
Jeff Montero, injured. Always.
Dan James, own product but not good enough for Shrewsbury while on loan there.
Barrie McKay, bad signing but with a bit of experience.

Dyer, Routledge and Narsingh were unavailable for almost the entire first half of the season. Allegedly Potter (or maybe CEO Huw Jenkins) had to ask the owners to play them because of their appearance fees and Potter had to play with the two youngsters (James and Asoro) or with the shite Barrie McKay until Routledge & Dyer said they dont need the appearance fees.

Wingers Cooper season

Nathan Dyer, now available.
Wayne Routledge, same.
Aldo Kalulu (loan from Basel), promising player.
Kristoffer Peterson, signed from Heracles where he scored 12 goals in the Eredivisie the season before he got signed.
Jordan Garrick, promoted youngster, very good.

Additionally, Ayew occasionally played as winger but I'm listing him as striker. Dyer and Routledge were available from the start, Kalulu and Peterson on paper were better signings than McKay and Asoro, but its possible to argue that this position was not significantly different from what Potter had.

Strikers Potter season
Oliver McBurnie, pretty inexperienced but had a good loan spell at Barnsley before returning to Swansea.
Courtney Baker-Richardson, signed from "Leamington" a couple of years earlier and had never played anywhere near Championship level.
Wilfried Bony, first injured for a long time, played 3 games and then shipped to Qatar.

Swansea went through this 46 game season with ONE striker, as Bony was injured and Baker-Richardson (a truly shit footballer) - now at Barrow - only played if times were desperate.

Strikers Cooper season

Andre Ayew, returning from loan in Fenerbahce. Experienced Premier League & Champions League player with over 300 appearances in the top 5 leagues.
Sam Surridge (loan from Bournemouth), England U21 striker.
Rhian Brewster, dont think he needs a presentation.

You be the judge: would you rather like Brighton to sign Rhian Brewster, or Courtney Baker-Richardson?

TLDR:
While it is true the club did a couple of signings in the Potter season, the loan deals/returning loanees/avilability of Dyer & Routledge made the Swansea squad a lot stronger last season. I think if you ask a hundred Swansea fans "did Papa Coop have a better squad than Snake Potter?", the overwhelming majority would say Cooper got the better squad.

Cooper had FIVE central defenders. Potter had three. Cooper had a left back all season. Potter had zero in the spring. Cooper could field an entire midfield with players with senior football experience. Potter couldnt. Cooper had Routledge and Dyer available for the entire season. Potter didnt. Cooper had the luxuary of having TWO capable strikers. Potter never did.

Anything else than Cooper Swansea getting better results than Potter Swansea would have been terrible. The squad was so much more complete and established than what Potter had to work with.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

This started off as a post but quickly grew to article length. It seeks to go through the main players in the squad one by one to answer the question of whether our current inability to win games lies with the players or the coach. Do we have a poor squad? Are we "too good to go down"? Are we just unlucky? Read and feel free to agree or disagree. Or don't. That's kinda the point of NSC.

https://www.northstandchat.com/content.php?869-Brighton%92s-Problems-%96-Coaching-or-Poor-Squad

[MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] can you provide a short link for Tapa pretty please?

These may come in handy for the Villa match.

I would start buying now, as I am sure there will be some panic buying soon.

 

[Guinness Boy]

warning: essay

Lets get some Swansea facts correct here and some context to the Potter/Cooper comparison.

Swansea GK Potter season:
Nordfeldt & Mulder, two backup keepers from the PL era who were nowhere good enough and subsequently got sold/released.

Swansea GK Cooper season:
Freddie Woodman (loan from NUFC), England U21 keeper and without a doubt one of the best keepers in the Championship.

Swansea defenders Potter season:
Connor Roberts, who had previously played 3 games for Swansea.
Kyle Naughton, good experienced defender.
Joe Rodon, 0 appearances before Potter came.
Mike VDH, great defender.
Cameron Carter-Vickers (loan from Tottenham), bang average with or without Potter.
Martin Olsson, tore his ACL in December.
Declan Rice, shit.

The team played for six months without a left back (Naughton filling in) as Olsson was injured. Three centre backs in the squad, one with no experience of senior football and one (CCV) who had previously failed to grab a starting position for Ipswich.

Defenders Cooper season:

Connor Roberts, Welsh international.
Kyle Naughton, still good.
Joe Rodon, one of the best centre backs in the league, Welsh international.
Mike VDH, great defender.
Marc Guehi (loan from Chelsea), England U21 player.
Ben Wilmots (loan from Watford), England U21 player.
Ben Cabango, promoted from the youth team.
Jake Bidwell, experienced left back.

So, the same players except for Olsson (replaced by Bidwell, who did not tear his ACL in December) and the addition of several central defenders. No longer any need to play the right back as left back or have some midfielder play as central defender.

Midfielders Potter season:
Bersant Celina, AMC signed from Man City. Flat-earther.
Leroy Fer, great midfielder but injured half of the season.
Matt Grimes, returning from a loan in League One.
George Byers, no previous experience of senior football.
Jay Fulton, no previous experience of senior football.
Tom Carroll, injured. Played two or three games.
Yan Dhanda, promising but too lightweight for the Championship.

Two experienced midfielders (Carroll & Fer), both injured most of the time, and a bunch of players who had never played on that level and not considered promising/talented (aside for Grimes, who was hyped way, way back).

Midfielders Cooper season:
Bersant Celina, proven quality midfielder.
Matt Grimes, one of the best Championship midfielders during the Potter season.
Jay Fulton, now with experience.
George Byers, now with experience.
Conor Gallagher (loan from Chelsea), England U21 player
Yan Dhanda, now with a bit of muscle.
Tom Carroll, still always injured.

While Fer was a great loss, Cooper got a midfield with significantly more experience (one 46 game Championship season rather than 0 senior appearances) and a great loan in Gallagher who is now playing in the PL.

Wingers Potter season
Nathan Dyer, considered way over the hill.
Wayne Routledge, same. Dire for years according to the Swansea crowd.
Luciano Narsingh, flop signing in the PL and the owners pressured Potter not to play him (appearance fee).
Joel Asoro, talented signing from Sunderland.
Jeff Montero, injured. Always.
Dan James, own product but not good enough for Shrewsbury while on loan there.
Barrie McKay, bad signing but with a bit of experience.

Dyer, Routledge and Narsingh were unavailable for almost the entire first half of the season. Allegedly Potter (or maybe CEO Huw Jenkins) had to ask the owners to play them because of their appearance fees and Potter had to play with the two youngsters (James and Asoro) or with the shite Barrie McKay until Routledge & Dyer said they dont need the appearance fees.

Wingers Cooper season

Nathan Dyer, now available.
Wayne Routledge, same.
Aldo Kalulu (loan from Basel), promising player.
Kristoffer Peterson, signed from Heracles where he scored 12 goals in the Eredivisie the season before he got signed.
Jordan Garrick, promoted youngster, very good.

Additionally, Ayew occasionally played as winger but I'm listing him as striker. Dyer and Routledge were available from the start, Kalulu and Peterson on paper were better signings than McKay and Asoro, but its possible to argue that this position was not significantly different from what Potter had.

Strikers Potter season
Oliver McBurnie, pretty inexperienced but had a good loan spell at Barnsley before returning to Swansea.
Courtney Baker-Richardson, signed from "Leamington" a couple of years earlier and had never played anywhere near Championship level.
Wilfried Bony, first injured for a long time, played 3 games and then shipped to Qatar.

Swansea went through this 46 game season with ONE striker, as Bony was injured and Baker-Richardson (a truly shit footballer) - now at Barrow - only played if times were desperate.

Strikers Cooper season

Andre Ayew, returning from loan in Fenerbahce. Experienced Premier League & Champions League player with over 300 appearances in the top 5 leagues.
Sam Surridge (loan from Bournemouth), England U21 striker.
Rhian Brewster, dont think he needs a presentation.

You be the judge: would you rather like Brighton to sign Rhian Brewster, or Courtney Baker-Richardson?

TLDR:
While it is true the club did a couple of signings in the Potter season, the loan deals/returning loanees/avilability of Dyer & Routledge made the Swansea squad a lot stronger last season. I think if you ask a hundred Swansea fans "did Papa Coop have a better squad than Snake Potter?", the overwhelming majority would say Cooper got the better squad.

Cooper had FIVE central defenders. Potter had three. Cooper had a left back all season. Potter had zero in the spring. Cooper could field an entire midfield with players with senior football experience. Potter couldnt. Cooper had Routledge and Dyer available for the entire season. Potter didnt. Cooper had the luxuary of having TWO capable strikers. Potter never did.

Anything else than Cooper Swansea getting better results than Potter Swansea would have been terrible. The squad was so much more complete and established than what Potter had to work with.

I'm not about to argue about a Swansea side you've watched a lot more than me. I'll just point out that in among that little lot you've written off Sheffield United's Ollie McBurnie, West Ham and England's Declan Rice and Manchester United's Daniel James and presented two entirely different Joe Rondon and Bersant Celinas to suit an agenda. I honestly can't tell if you're serious but the "flat earther" comment suggests you had your tongue shoved in your cheek throughout the writing of that rather lengthy post.

 

[Swansman]

I'm not about to argue about a Swansea side you've watched a lot more than me. I'll just point out that in among that little lot you've written off Sheffield United's Ollie McBurnie, West Ham and England's Declan Rice and Manchester United's Daniel James and presented two entirely different Joe Rondon and Bersant Celinas to suit an agenda. I honestly can't tell if you're serious but the "flat earther" comment suggests you had your tongue shoved in your cheek throughout the writing of that rather lengthy post.

Because at the time of Potters arrival McBurnie was considered talented but not the player he is now, Dan James was basically unheard of. Yes, he plays for United now but when Potter came he was a fella that couldnt get into the Shrewsbury side. James wasnt a United player when Potter came, but he was when he left, which is one of the reasons Potter is now coaching Brighton.

Declan Rice did not play for Swansea, I meant to write Declan John.

As for "two different Joe Rodon" and "two different Bersant Celina" is pretty basic: Joe Rodon was no one when Potter came and an established Welsh international defender when Cooper came. Celina had a great first season in Swansea but was relatively unknown prior to getting signed by Potter, even if he had a decent loan spell in Ipswich. The mentioning of him being a flat earther was just an anecdote.

 

[maltaseagull]

I’ve just given three examples which show that the coaching of football is falling short. His coaching of teamwork, tactics, togetherness, leadership, flexibility on the pitch, motivation, collective responsibility, all that stuff is probably terrific. But deep down in the dirt, in the trenches, decision making instinct amidst the cut and thrust on the pitch, our individual players are not being well coached. I can’t see anyone there who is going to help NM analyse his lack of form and talk striker to striker in detail about what to change and why, his positioning, when to come short, when to play on shoulder, when to come near post, when to sit off, when to take a touch and when to pull the trigger, all that stuff, as a striker, and to help pull him out of his current trough. That’s the coaching I’m talking about, real ball at your feet football coaching.

Glenn Murray coming home next season?

 

[neilbard]

If Lamptey had buried that first minute shot and Welbeck converted the 1 on 1 we’d be talking about a comfortable win, we’re not far off and it will come.

They both didn't though did they?

 

[El Presidente]

Have a look on Transfermarket.

There's more accuracy in a Donald Trump tweet than there is in Transfermarkt.

 

[Guinness Boy]

These may come in handy for the Villa match.

I would start buying now, as I am sure there will be some panic buying soon.

View attachment 130240

Handily, someone else had already written exactly what I was going to write on another thread.

Sadly you will get called a bed-wetter - some people just can't stop themselves using the phrase, justified or not. A bed-wetter would be someone screaming Potter out at every opportunity, predicting definite relegation and moaning that almost every player we've got is rubbish. On the other hand, just starting to have a few doubts is simply a realistic and rational position.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

We can't score goals. Lots of pretty build up play, but our attack is completely blunt.

Short corners wtf?

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

I agree with those who post about set plays, both for and against. We appear to use our danger men as a decoy at freekicks and corners. Mostly the sodding ball never even ends up in the box. Against Everton it was there for all to see we needed to pressure their keeper yet what happens? We take short corner after short corner absolute madness they didn't even get crossed in. Even B Owen asked Potter about it, who gave such a pathetic reply. We stop moving when we get near the area bereft of ideas. Gross is sooooooooooooooooo slow it's painful and his shooting and headers are lame as if he can't move quickly enough to put any strength into it.

Defending set plays it's obvious that all teams know that Ryan is far too small and can easily cause problems by lumping the ball at him. Been saying it for ages Ryan is not good enough, he wouldn't get close to first team in any other PL side.

I do worry, we play like every game is a friendly exhibition game, no bite, no anger, no nous.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Because at the time of Potters arrival McBurnie was considered talented but not the player he is now, Dan James was basically unheard of. Yes, he plays for United now but when Potter came he was a fella that couldnt get into the Shrewsbury side. James wasnt a United player when Potter came, but he was when he left, which is one of the reasons Potter is now coaching Brighton.

Declan Rice did not play for Swansea, I meant to write Declan John.

As for "two different Joe Rodon" and "two different Bersant Celina" is pretty basic: Joe Rodon was no one when Potter came and an established Welsh international defender when Cooper came. Celina had a great first season in Swansea but was relatively unknown prior to getting signed by Potter, even if he had a decent loan spell in Ipswich. The mentioning of him being a flat earther was just an anecdote.

I wouldn't actually deny that Potter is a good coach of indivdual players, particularly youngsters, particuarly defenders and midfielders. He's brought on Alzate, improved Lamptey's game in a very short space of time, turned March into a wingback, improved Webster and will improve White. Connolly has been given a chance also. And the point of my article was to go player by player and state that actually most of them would get into other teams in the PL. It's not like Potter is being asked to operate without a midfield and with a Barrow quality striker here.

So what does that leave? If we both throw away our passions and deal in facts, after 7 games we are in the bottom five. We have one win. We have no wins at home, despite having welcomed West Brom and Burnley, two sides who look as poor as I've ever seen in this division. We seemingly have a bust up that led us going to Spurs, of all teams, with a third choice keeper making a debut and a CAM playing as some kind of number 9. If Potter is good at the one on one player development (and I think he is) and we have a reasonable squad (I think we do) what is going wrong? Tactics? BAD LUCK? What's your explanation Swanny?

I go back to we have a team that produces very nice football to watch. All the commentators say it. "Oh, Brighton are great to watch, Potter's made them so much more footballery". And they might gush about Ashworth for a short while. But they'll do so on PPV, during the graveyard shift, along with the likes of West Brom and Burnley, because they know they'll get a lot of titting about in one box, a potential set piece sucker punch at the other end, and very likely a low scoring draw.

 

[Wardy's twin]

If Lamptey had buried that first minute shot and Welbeck converted the 1 on 1 we’d be talking about a comfortable win, we’re not far off and it will come.

we rely far too much on that lad.