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arsenal v bayern munich
- Thread starter tomfitz12
- Start date
The players are members of a team, when a player cheats the team benefits. If I stop you scoring, it's not just me that doesn't concede, it's my whole team. If I can foul you, stop you scoring, and not leave my team down to ten men, why wouldn't I do it? Players "take one for the team" all the time, making that yellow card foul to stop a counter attack, etc. even when it's their 5th or 10th caution, because they are doing it for the team not as an individual.
I also don't buy this whole "it's the fans that suffer" argument. Firstly, we are never guaranteed entertainment with 11 v 11, the entertainment is secondary to it being a sporting competition. Secondly, I want to watch games played fairly and honourably and if someone cheats I want to see them punished, without that structure of rules it stops being a proper sporting competition. Thirdly, players getting sent off can increase the entertainment of a game - it can give the underdog a chance, it can inspire more effort, it can gee up a crowd, it is a twisting turn on the emotional rollercoaster of watching a good football match.
The Wizard
Well-known member
- Jul 2, 2009
- 18,383
I blame Ozil for that penalty miss - if they scored first I think they'd probably have won the game. Bayern only really dominated hugely against ten. I just don't understand what Ozil was thinking, massive moment in the tie and he wasted it with that shocking effort, everyone misses penalties every now and again but if Ozil was my player he certainly wouldn't be taking penalties again, done that twice now with both he's taken
deletebeepbeepbeep
Well-known member
- May 12, 2009
- 21,134
Was gonna have a go at you for being a typical male Internet forums user and then I did a double take!!
symyjym
Banned
Dissent is worthy of a yellow card and we shouldn't really need a naughty step with adults. How many times should a player be sin binned before he gets a yellow?
I am not strictly against it, I just think is a massive introduction unlike the ones you mentioned at the top of your post.
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symyjym
Banned
Nice dress
wolfie
Well-known member
Regarding your first point, I can't imagine the rest of the Arsenal team (collectively) urging Sczezny to deliberately foul Robben and give away a penalty. When the dust has settled, it will be Sczezny who cops the suspension- not the rest of the team. In my suggestion, the punishment for the player still stands (ie a ban) Currently, it seems to be a case of triple jeopardy - a penalty, a sending off and then a ban.
As far as entertainment goes, your scenarios are rather rare. I grant you it does happen (Burnley and Walsall games spring to mind) but in massive games such as the two this week I think it would be unlikely.
I can't imagine they are happy, either. But that's because he was sent off and they weren't allowed to bring on a player to make up the numbers so they were down to ten men. That means he will probably suffer, maybe being out for a game or three will lose him his place in the starting line up, maybe he will suffer some resentment from other players for costing them a chance of success.
If they were allowed to bring on another player to give them 11 men for the whole of the match they'd have a chance of getting something out of it, I don't think they'd be as unhappy. I imagine if they got something out of it with 11 men, they would have been quite pleased with him, and he wouldn't suffer anything, probably put back into the team as soon as the suspension was up, since he can be relied on to put the club ahead of himself.
I don't believe my scenarios are all that rare. The extreme versions of them may be, you cite two games that were 11v9 - they are rare, but there are plenty of 11v10 matches that are still entertaining for at least one of the variety of reasons I gave. Of course there are exceptions, but I would say the entertainment value of a match is more about the crowds, the tactics, the efforts of the players, what's at stake, and the quality of the football, than it is about how many players are on each team.
Demichelis and Szczesny brought this all on themselves and their teams. They knew the rules, but showed either poor judgement or their calculated decision back fired. Painful for those Arsenal and ManC plastics, blaming it all on Johnny foreigner refs or a "stupid rule" (unless it happened to benefit their plastic club), but this very clear rule has been in for several decades and has successfully reduced the old nonsense of a defender/goalkeeper deliberately bringing down a player in on goal with very few consequences.
joeinbrighton
New member
As much as the red card and Ozil's penalty miss affected the outcome of the game in a big way, the main difference between the 2 sides was Philip Lahm. He was sensational tonight. I gather he only misplaced one pass during the entire match and he also set up both of Bayern's goals. He made his name as someone equally adept at playing in either full back position and he has now been converted into a top quality midfielder. How we could do with multi-dimensional players of his ilk who are English.
I didn't realize you were a life-long Gooner.
This. I will add that at the elite end it is often small details and fine judgement which makes the difference. IMHO this has proved the case in these two games. It's not just about technique it's also about judgement and calm.
An incredibly gifted player.
saafend_seagull
Well-known member
Haha 12% possession for arsenal in second half and their 100th red card in 18.5 years.
Perfidious Albion
Well-known member
Should have booked Robben for simulation ...IMHO
I've heard elite sports coaches refer to it as body/physiology on fire (or something like that), but the mind remaining focused and calm. Demichelis and Szczesny failed the latter.