are we alowed to critisise CKR on here yet?

[Debo]

But I think your anti-Butters remarks are a bit wide of the mark.


London. I often enjoy reading your remarks as they are usually balanced and informative. However the statement you have made is none of these.

Please read what I have written again and tell me where I have started on Butters. I meerly stated my opinion on the way we defend. If I am incorrect then please enlighten me and I will happily stand corrected.

I made no reference to butters just meerly to the fact that we defend deep. Infact YOU have just said it was because of Butters lack of pace. So it must be true.

My observations as to how we defend were stated as an indication of how deep we sit and to incorporate this into our system of playing we need a cm not winger who has an out pass (not clearance) or can travel with the ball in the centre of the pitch.

I did however make reference to Seb and the neccessity for him to be encouraged to deliver his crosses a lot earlier, and even sometimes slip a pass through the back four four the forwards to run on to.

As I have said I made statements about the way we play centrally and you bring up Koumass. Why not go the hole hog and say Lampard.

Do you think I'm thick. I don't for one minute think we can draw one of the best cm in the league to our club at the moment. I just stated the type of player and style of play that would help CKR at the moment, as I thought that is what this thread was about. Again if I am wrong, please correct me. Not a lot of forwards would benifit from the way we often play. Not even the best

Also Reid against Leeds was superb, and I will once again refer to my initial statement again. I think it read

"This is were it is important that other players make timed runs into the box." This is exactly what he did to great effect.

As to what those close to him are telling him I cannot vouch for. Although from the few encounters I have had with his parents I can assure the guidence he is given is total.

As I have said above I am not trying to dig out anyone. Just posting about a player, on a thread about the player

 

[Basil Fawlty]

Seem like thats all most of want to do on here. Are we try to say yesterday was down to ckr and the forwards, thats BOLLOCKS. Was someone giving a match winning performance that was thwarted by ckr. I must of missed that

The facts are we are a poor side at the minute for a number of reasons, CKR came on and played about 33 mins yet a lot of the vile seems to be directed at him.

This obviously means we were better for the previous 57. I think not. Away from ckr and Seb we have a very low skill factor. This could still be enough if only seb didn't do ten tricks before crossing instead of simply getting a good ball in ball early, (every time he checks back another player gets back behind the ball when an early cross would often only leave our forwards competing 1v1 against player instead of 4 or 5).

Meanwhile the forwards have to keep trying to regenerate their runs often ending up in the wrong place when the ball finally arrives. This is were it is important that other players make timed run into the box, as mccammon stated it is up to the whole team to score, but also for the team to play to the strenghts of such forwards.

So lets look at how we play.

Until the introduction of Lynch and El-Abd at full back, our defence got continuously mudered by pace FACT.

The players in the full back position were often (almost always) left on their own to face a winger who had the beating of them. Look at the goals against Cardiff home and away Norwich at home Sheffield u at home, Reading away, Millwall oh my god, Coventry in the cup (and MM blamed the forwards) sure there's a couple more. Funny thing is we scored in all but one of thse games.

Seen both Mayo and Reid struggle against pace in some of these games unable to cope with the player running at them, most of you would say it's because there slow. No its because the cover offered is minimal. One of the centre backs should be telling the fullback to hold the up while he comes across to offer cover this can't happen because the one centre back who is quick enough to do this is covering the other who isn't. Not a critisism just a fact. This still happens but Lynch and El-Abd are better equipt to cope with it.


For long periods our defence sit on the top of our 18 yard box (why do we not ask why this is on, nsc) this causes our midfied to sit a short distance in front them. Seb then picks up the ball short and the tries to cover the length of the pitch.

Other than this the ball is generally pumped it to the air or meanlessly into for the forwards to fight (and I mean) fight for it.

If we had a centre midfielder that had a good range of passing or one who could travel with the ball instead of lumping it up to the forwards this would help. We need a forward who can hold the ball up, I hear everyone say for how long a week. None of our midfield try to join in or get beyond the forwards when the ball is central to the goal.

We do not have this kind of player, one who changes his feet and or pace very quickly. Deano I hear you say. No not at the moment any way. Seb maybe, when he is not breaking his neck to and from Frutos instead of drawing a player out and quickly slipping as pass through and beyond the defence for the forwards to run on to ckr would definately benifit from this type of play. If he was on the pitch that is.

This type of central play or player would create space for others to work in, as if he beat his own man he would then draw another from one leaving one of our players open.

Obviously its not just as simple as I have written, but we have the potential to chase the pants off of teams the with the abilty Jake and ckr have ESPECIALLY ON THE GROUND. Yet the young forwards we have are being blamed for our downfall. Shame on mm the fans for this.

There are a lot worse players in the team than those two yet they constanly get hammered. Did Chippy play yesterday didn't see him or Deano. Poor display all round wonder who would of got the blame if the gaffer had not made any changes? Him maybe. So it just gets shifted.

Back to CKR who I would suggest is not happy with a lot on and off the field at the moment.

Yet he who broke his neck to get fit for this game after being purposely smashed to peices by one of his own players in training last week and almost fully recoved from a tackle that would have had many out for months (if you don't believe me ask Race).

I aslo have come to learn that had it not not been for the one year tie in to the CC deal, there are a couple of teams who would of tried to take him already (at least one from the league above) on his displays for us. So he must have something, maybe we need to play to his strengths which going by the goals he scores, is getting the ball in front of him especially to his feet.

I think we need to look at the whole picture without picking on the same old few. Not always in agreement with Mccamon but he is right when he says negitivity does affect the team especially the younger players.

We can help them to get better or we can cause them to get worse. Without doubt CKR has great ability but if we are expecting him to just manifest this without total support from us his teamates and the management it will not happen for him at this club.

I for one will wishing for the best everytime he walks on the pitch.

I dont believe everyone else is. And from what I hear he doesn't think so either.

Superb first post there Debo.

 

[Ernest]

Debo = Pepsi Max Richards

 

[Debo]

Debo = Pepsi Max Richards

If it was then that would suggest a level of intelligence, decorum, maturity and understanding that many are not giving him credit for.

So I guess it cant be. Can It.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

or his dad

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Worried about this McShane comment though - still what football clubs don't have 'incidents' at training.

Doesn't sound quite on the Hartson/Bercovitz(sp) scale though

 

[Debo]

or his dad

Wrong again, buts lets just worry about that and not our side playing well.

 

[algie]

Dave

All our strikers are shite mate

FACT

CK-R 5
Knight 5
Robinson 2
Carole 2
Hart 1
McPhee 0

 

[London Irish]

London. I often enjoy reading your remarks as they are usually balanced and informative. However the statement you have made is none of these.

Please read what I have written again and tell me where I have started on Butters. I meerly stated my opinion on the way we defend. If I am incorrect then please enlighten me and I will happily stand corrected.

I made no reference to butters just meerly to the fact that we defend deep. Infact YOU have just said it was because of Butters lack of pace. So it must be true.

Fair enough, I thought that was what you were inplying. If I've put 2 and 2 together and made 5, sorry

Sound point about Carole, and glad we agree about Reid's contribution. I think we agree that it's tough work being an Albion forward at the moment, but I think all the players are in this together and it's tough all over the pitch. I'm sure you are right about CKR's guidance and well done for standing in the lad's corner and speaking up for him.

But I hope you recognise what I said about training ground confidences - team spirit 'n all that. McShane has people close to him as you are to CKR I'm sure, and they want fairness for their guy too.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

We are worried about our side playing well. (It is of course always interesting to hear about how a plyer feels even second or third hand)

I belive CKR has HUGE talent - it will come through - but at the moment we are in a scrap and need all the players, staff and management - plus the fans to pull in the same direction. We need goals.

I very rarely critisise the players (although Leon's attitude before he left and Mark Mac s lack of ability have recently pushed this to the limit) and I for one am not going to start on CKR.

BTW Butters may be a tad slow but without him we would be a lesser side and a much weaker defence.(IMO!)

 

[Debo]

Fair enough, I thought that was what you were inplying. If I've put 2 and 2 together and made 5, sorry

Sound point about Carole, and glad we agree about Reid's contribution. I think we agree that it's tough work being an Albion forward at the moment, but I think all the players are in this together and it's tough all over the pitch. I'm sure you are right about CKR's guidance and well done for standing in the lad's corner and speaking up for him.

But I hope you recognise what I said about training ground confidences - team spirit 'n all that. McShane has people close to him as you are to CKR I'm sure, and they want fairness for their guy too.

The training ground thing was perhaps a bit devilish and away from the point. Although it was made to endorse the point that the lads wants to play and do well at our club. An emphisiss I think some are questioning.