[Politics] Are there too many people 2020

[Bold Seagull]

As a species we already can't live in harmony and equilibrium with the rest of life on the planet. We already can't organise ourselves well enough to give everyone a reasonable standard of living.

Based on that it's difficult to argue that the current exponential population growth is good or sustainable.

A practical and/or palatable solution doesn't exist. I've no doubt the situation will play itself out to a mass extinction, it's absolutely inevitable, just a question of when.

A practical solution does exist, through education and development to reduce the birth rate.

The birth rate is already below 1 in many countries around the world. Conversely they end up relying on immigration for economic growth and looking after their ageing populations.

The annual change in the world's population is now half that of what it was in 1970, and is decreasing year on year. This is where things like state aid, conflict resolution, education all come into play.

One interesting statistic is that in the last couple of years, the worldwide population of 65+ year olds exceeded under 5s for the first time. Birth rates are falling coupled with us keeping people alive for longer.

 

[Gwylan]

Not AH, but Thomas Malthus envisaged natural checks on population growth, such as pandemics.

... and war. He was writing in the midst of the Napoleonic conflict and towards the end of a century that had seen several wars.

He also predicted the availability of birth control.

What's causing the increase (as KZNS) points out, is not people having more kids - they're not, what's causing the increase are fewer people dying.

 

[Billy the Fish]

If you have a look at the evidence, there's a strong case to be made that the real problem is not population numbers but, rather, rates of consumption and, most particularly, the consumption of a narrow sector towards the top of society.

Which is why I wrote the bit about not organising ourselves. In theory you're correct, in practice we can't and won't ever get it right. It's already too late.

 

[Gwylan]

The question is: what's the future? Logan's Run or Soylent Green

 

[Fungus]

About a hundred years ago, there was this fella from Austria who had exactly the same thought. I wonder what happened to him

Not really the exact same thought, though, was it?

 

[Rogero]

10,000 years BC the population was between 1-5 million.

 

[schmunk]

The question is: what's the future? Logan's Run or Soylent Green

 

[SeagullinExile]

Human induced climate change? Pah.

 

[beorhthelm]

If you have a look at the evidence, there's a strong case to be made that the real problem is not population numbers but, rather, rates of consumption and, most particularly, the consumption of a narrow sector towards the top of society.

this is conflating consumption and wealth, two seperate issues. no matter how much wealth accumulates in the top whatever percentile, they consume rough in proportion to their number. meanwhile there is the rest of the population also consuming food, energy, gadgets, goods and services. mobile phone would be good example, the top 1% might each own a couple flash models, only small % of resources needed, while the other 99% having a nidrange model that creates unsustainable pressure on resources.

 

[Birdie Boy]

I thought this Covid-19 was man made to reduce the population, did someone forget to tell the world's leaders to not lockdown? Maybe they only told Trump and that Brazilian guy.

And the 5g masts are the backup plan?

 

[Swansman]

With vertical farming, energy reducing measures, solar cells etc. I think another 10 billion would be managable but with each year the world becomes more organised and I doubt that the people in the top of this hierarchical organisation would allow the population to grow much above current levels. Controlling reproduction and making people die a bit earlier won't be controversial ideas to sell in a pretty near future.

 

[studio150]

Blimey, can't wait to find out how you think we should go about this!

As foretold in Logan's Run.

That does probably mean that 90% of NSC posters are on borrowed time.

 

[El Presidente]

About a hundred years ago, there was this fella from Austria who had exactly the same thought. I wonder what happened to him

I think he posts on NSC under the name...

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

The question is: what's the future? Logan's Run or Soylent Green

Logan's Run - just for Jenny Agutter

 

[El Presidente]

Logan's Run - just for Jenny Agutter

Her greatest moment was the shower scene in An American Werewolf in London.

 

[Eddiespearritt]

I know it's a gimmick - but the Worldometer website is the most frightening thing on the web.

In one day they reckon the world population increases by about a quarter of a million - and you can watch it before your very eyes.

https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

 

[TimWatt]

According to George Monbiot, before the pandemic global annual consumption growth was 3%, while population growth was 1% (and declining) - therefore it's unsustainable growth of consumption that is far more relevant to impacts such as climate change.

https://youtu.be/__UJ09PZFoI?t=175

 

[Machiavelli]

this is conflating consumption and wealth, two seperate issues. no matter how much wealth accumulates in the top whatever percentile, they consume rough in proportion to their number. meanwhile there is the rest of the population also consuming food, energy, gadgets, goods and services. mobile phone would be good example, the top 1% might each own a couple flash models, only small % of resources needed, while the other 99% having a nidrange model that creates unsustainable pressure on resources.

Can I suggest that, just as one within a plethora of examples, you dig out the stats on wealth deciles (and ideally centiles towards the top) and how much they fly. The evidence is that the wealthiest carbon usage is at rates far in advance of the bottom half of the population.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

why is no one talking about reducing number of humans?

Wouldn’t happen in Germany.

 

[beorhthelm]

Can I suggest that, just as one within a plethora of examples, you dig out the stats on wealth deciles (and ideally centiles towards the top) and how much they fly. The evidence is that the wealthiest carbon usage is at rates far in advance of the bottom half of the population.

im sure it is. the point is the use of those resources dont scale.