Anyone going to the Downing Street Protests?

[studio150]

Hope you're supporting the junior doctors.

A few half a dozen posts after you someone talks about immigration and I completely resent people blaming other minorities for the problems of the NHS or our welfare state. It's all lies that has been fabricated by the right wing press for decades.

I said it earlier, in the 80s people blamed the Irish coming here taking our jobs, in the 90s it was the Polish, in the 2000s it was the Baltic Bloc lot and in the 2010s it's been all about Muslims. Nothing changes with this rhetoric other than who it is to blame. This is the exact same thing that got the Jews persecuted in the 1930s.

I also totally agree that new Labour wasn't perfect. Blair after all pulled them away from the left to the right but they wernt as bad as the Tories. It's true Blair started the ball rolling for the breakup of the NHS. In a way he was Thatcher's child but Thatcher wasn't stupid enough to touch the NHS, contrary to all the manufacting and mining industries she decimated. This country has been crying out for a proper left for years and we finally have somebody with the decent morals of Corbyn. Protecting our NHS is fundamentally important but there is also the issue of housing which hasn't been properly addressed for the last 40 years - we haven't been building enough. The NHS is so bad because it is being chronically underfunded, which is always the first step to privatisation. Making the masses angry so there is no option but to get private investment in. The whole process stinks. If we leave the EU than the Tories will press ahead with TTIP and all our services will be sold out quicker. Staying in the EU is much safer. Finally, back to immigration. People who come here are not the problem, but they are perceived to be by the media to hide the real problem that is underpinning all our public services. If we carry on like this for another 10 years than we won't have a free health service anymore.

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Why has the UK been crying out for a left wing government. If people wanted a left wing government they would have voted one in, but they havent.
You also go on anout the NHS bit fail to kention the £2bn a year drain on the NHS due to having to pay for the PFIs brought in by the last labour government.
You need to realise that in the real world the grass is not greener on the leftside of the road.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

It stands for Trans Atlantic Trade & investment Partnership.

Nothing in the name suggests the EU. TTIP and the TPP were set up by >>American<< companies. The reason these corporations want it is so they can legally sue any government for the loss of profits the endure through taxation and other investment. Just think the NHS having to pay pharmaceutical companies legal fees because pharma want making enough profit. This isn't a American or EU government thing, this is being orchestrated by big business.

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Please please go and do some proper research on TTIP before the 23rd June. Even if you still decide to vote in at least you'll have voted having the correct facts rather than the fairytale you believe at the moment.

 

[studio150]

Has to be accepted by all European states and a few countries are against it so there's more chance to fight it.

By leaving we will sign up because the Tories want it.

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Evidence.

Intetesting that Lord Owen states that the way to protect the NHS would be to leave the EU.

As your rallying call for a protest yesterday resulted in virtually nothing of substance or interest perhaps you could use this for next weeks rent a mob

 

[Soulman]

You also go on anout the NHS bit fail to kention the £2bn a year drain on the NHS due to having to pay for the PFIs brought in by the last labour government.
You need to realise that in the real world the grass is not greener on the leftside of the road.

I worked on 3 schools and a hospital in the area that are PFI. A big Japanese firm own and rent back the hospital over a 30 year period, and a big building/dredging company own the schools. The rent paid is not just for the buildings but everything in it. The payback over 30years is massive. The big Q and A hospital at Portsmouth is on the same deal, in fact lots of new schools and hospitals in the country, and people were praising the money "put" into the NHS.....
Good old (new) Labour eh.

 

[glasfryn]

Why has the UK been crying out for a left wing government. If people wanted a left wing government they would have voted one in, but they havent.
You also go on anout the NHS bit fail to kention the £2bn a year drain on the NHS due to having to pay for the PFIs brought in by the last labour government.
You need to realise that in the real world the grass is not greener on the leftside of the road.

probably because labour in the last few decades has be more of a watered down tory party
lets see what happens next time we have an election

 

[drew]

Why has the UK been crying out for a left wing government. If people wanted a left wing government they would have voted one in, but they havent.
You also go on anout the NHS bit fail to kention the £2bn a year drain on the NHS due to having to pay for the PFIs brought in by the last labour government.
You need to realise that in the real world the grass is not greener on the leftside of the road.

I'm not saying PFIs are the bees knees but you have to balance your comment with the alternative as to what the situation would have been had that investment not been made. That is, are there hospitals with better, more efficient facilities now because of PFI that wouldn't be there without it and what would the cost be of not having those facilities. Had there been steady investment in the infrastructure of the NHS then PFI may not have been necessary.

 

[drew]

Its a EU treaty chap for people in the EU club
if we left the EU club how would we be able to sign up for it......we would be out of the permitted signatories club

Do you not think that if we are out of the EU the US would still seek to have us sign up to an agreement along the lines of what is currently being negotiated in secret by the EU.

 

[Smirko]

probably because labour in the last few decades has be more of a watered down tory party
lets see what happens next time we have an election

and the time after that, and the time after that..... until Labour are eventually voted back, in as will happen eventually., it's called the cyclical nature of politics.

 

[Soulman]

I'm not saying PFIs are the bees knees but you have to balance your comment with the alternative as to what the situation would have been had that investment not been made. .

What investment??. The Labour government invested NOTHING. It loved the praise of looking like they were backing the NHS and education but in reality were hawking out the building to big building companies etc.
These companies are renting back not only the buildings but everything down to pens and toilet paper.
The amount we will pay back over 30 years (by that time the schools and hospitals will need refurbishing) is massive.
The "alternative" would have been to cut the benefits that Labour used to give away willy nilly, cut other waste, use the cash from "selling" the Gold at a stupid price, and not get our NHS and Education in massive debt.

 

[beorhthelm]

It stands for Trans Atlantic Trade & investment Partnership.

Nothing in the name suggests the EU. TTIP and the TPP were set up by >>American<< companies. The reason these corporations want it is so they can legally sue any government for the loss of profits the endure through taxation and other investment. Just think the NHS having to pay pharmaceutical companies legal fees because pharma want making enough profit. This isn't a American or EU government thing, this is being orchestrated by big business.

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this is comically mis-informed. the point that its a EU-US trade agreement is covered, but the ability for companies to sue is one aspect from dozens, in a long document (its online you know. for a secret negotiation theres an awful lot of information on the EU and US web sites). it means in essense that if a law is changed that destroys a business, compenstation may be due. thats it, it does not mean companies can sue because you made a loss or an investment went bad.

 

[portslade seagull]

What investment??. The Labour government invested NOTHING. It loved the praise of looking like they were backing the NHS and education but in reality were hawking out the building to big building companies etc.
These companies are renting back not only the buildings but everything down to pens and toilet paper.
The amount we will pay back over 30 years (by that time the schools and hospitals will need refurbishing) is massive.
The "alternative" would have been to cut the benefits that Labour used to give away willy nilly, cut other waste, use the cash from "selling" the Gold at a stupid price, and not get our NHS and Education in massive debt.

Now now Soulman please don't hurt him with the truth as you know it always hurts

 

[amexer]

I suppose not right time to say NHS unsustainable in present form whoever is in government and think people should pay say £10 to see doctor. Just look at other Europian countries and you will see how lucky we are. Many coming back from Spain for example because of cost of health care

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

I suspect a few tax avoiders in among the protesters avoid tax by not working...by choice..just an observation like...bit like anti road protesters that drive to such events.

 

[drew]

What investment??. The Labour government invested NOTHING. It loved the praise of looking like they were backing the NHS and education but in reality were hawking out the building to big building companies etc.
These companies are renting back not only the buildings but everything down to pens and toilet paper.
The amount we will pay back over 30 years (by that time the schools and hospitals will need refurbishing) is massive.
The "alternative" would have been to cut the benefits that Labour used to give away willy nilly, cut other waste, use the cash from "selling" the Gold at a stupid price, and not get our NHS and Education in massive debt.

The good old 'selling the gold' argument!!

Alternatively, the Tories could have reinvested the oil revenue in infrastructure or the money from selling utilities, railways etc. But they didn't.

 

[drew]

this is comically mis-informed. the point that its a EU-US trade agreement is covered, but the ability for companies to sue is one aspect from dozens, in a long document (its online you know. for a secret negotiation theres an awful lot of information on the EU and US web sites). it means in essense that if a law is changed that destroys a business, compenstation may be due. thats it, it does not mean companies can sue because you made a loss or an investment went bad.

Nice and simple then. So, what would happen if a US manufacturer of PV panels expanded due to expected growth in the EU due to government subsidies for green power and then the governments change their policy to stop subsidies and that affects sales and this company then has the right to sue. Maybe new stringent restrictions on emissions from vehicles affects US manufacturers profits etc etc.

If it was so simple, why is the whole process so secretive?

 

[Bigtomfu]

help, I'm being repressed!

You saw him repressing me didn't you? You saw it. Look he's doing it again.

If I went around telling people what to do just because some watery tart lobbed a scimitar at me they'd put me away!

 

[Bigtomfu]

probably because labour in the last few decades has be more of a watered down tory party
lets see what happens next time we have an election

Nailed on full scale Labour implosion and hissy fit when nothing changes and they don't win because Corbyn has marginalised them from the middle ground.

They're all as bad as each other and its cyclical. Tories privatise everything, incentivise business and help the economy along, get the finances more or less back on an even keel and then Labour win, spend too much on noble causes and get booted out when we have no money. Round and round and round it goes.

 

[glasfryn]

Nailed on full scale Labour implosion and hissy fit when nothing changes and they don't win because Corbyn has marginalised them from the middle ground.

They're all as bad as each other and its cyclical. Tories privatise everything, incentivise business and help the economy along, get the finances more or less back on an even keel and then Labour win, spend too much on noble causes and get booted out when we have no money. Round and round and round it goes.

good post and you are most probably right, but the element of trust comes in to play now and in this moment of time the tories are not going to be trusted, and yes as everyone says what Cameron has done is most probably legal ,but when it comes to putting that cross on the election paper people will ask themselves is it moral

 

[Bigtomfu]

good post and you are most probably right, but the element of trust comes in to play now and in this moment of time the tories are not going to be trusted, and yes as everyone says what Cameron has done is most probably legal ,but when it comes to putting that cross on the election paper people will ask themselves is it moral

It's not most probably legal it is legal but the press have an agenda over morality and won't let go.

I personally have less of an issue with this sort of thing than others but I do understand the anger it riles in others my main problem is that the anger stems from jealousy in the main, the I deserve more for nothing brigade. Would love to meet a die hard lefty who has managed to build up his/her own business and then been lucky enough to sell it for a considerable sum of money and HASN'T taken exit planning advice to mitigate tax. Morally that's exactly the same scenario as here but why wouldn't you want to keep money that you have earned right? Anyway...

 

[studio150]

I suppose not right time to say NHS unsustainable in present form whoever is in government and think people should pay say £10 to see doctor. Just look at other Europian countries and you will see how lucky we are. Many coming back from Spain for example because of cost of health care

If it was introduced I would expect it to fall in line with the cost of a Dental check-up under the NHS which is now £19.70. However I would not expect this to be introduced as any Government would be very wary of the public backlash and the huge loss of votes. It would presumably lead to an increase in deaths as people don't go to see the Doctor due to the cost involved.

When NI contributions are combined with Income Tax to just have one tax on income, this would see an increase in revenue which could be used for the NHS presuming that the new tax is applied to all income (dividends, interest, etc)