anybody a pc expert?

[glosterseagul]

ooops - it just crashed!

"no bootable devices...." this is where I came in

Oh well I have a couple of cds

If I can get it going how do I copy her email data?

 

[Cian]

What makes you think it'd be any easier to deal with this kinda problem on a Mac? If you get a damaged HDD in a powerbook, you're generally buggered.

Also, why do Apple persist in this "hold C to boot from CD-ROM" nonsense. Its like the "Ctrl-Apple-O-F and then attach a serial console to the serial port" way of getting into the BIOS

Macintoshs are not user friendly if you're a power user. Their way of dumbing down UNIX isn'f friendly either

*edit*
Oh, I have been using Macintoshs myself on and off for ten years. And I can say from having used a broad spectrum of systems (Theres x86, PowerPC, SPARC-64 and MIPS R4x00 kit running in my room right at this moment), Apple have the least user friendly hardware and software. This isn't the rant of a "PC Lover", indeed, I'd far prefer to be able to use a nice SGI toaster for my desktop

 

[beorhthelm]

Originally posted by glosterseagul

We've visited this before; but as a Mac user I hate PC's. Sure mainley cos I havn't a clue about them. If the problem was on a mac I would insert a system cd in the drive restart the 'puter and hold down the "c" key this would force it to start up from the cd. I can then search for the HD. I have been using Macs for over 18 years I have never paid for support - I havn't needed to! They seem to think for me and they just seem logical.

The only difference i can see in this scenario between a Mac and a PC is that Macs are defaulted to boot to CDROM first, while PC are (usually) defaulted to boot from HD (actually floopy is normally first). The hard disk is broken either way, and Apple get their drives from the same people as the PC world does.

This is the sort of thing that demonstrates the difference between Apple users and the rest of the IT world: you probably dont even know what the BIOS is or what you can do with it, but then you've never needed to because someone thought to set it to the most likly required settings. But i bet you cant change those setting easiliy if you wanted to.

I personally have liked using the Mac when ive had to, but do prefer being able to fix things - and things do go wrong alot as ive found with our company's Mac power users who constantly have issues (something about Extensions or other Apple voodoo). I like Mac OSX as i can get under the hood so to speak and tinker.

But i still cant abide that fecking stupid one button mouse crap. In fact the mouse itself is a pile of steaming poo.

 

[glosterseagul]

Firstly you're right. i'm not a "power user". In the 'average' user mode i'm about 6 or 7 out of 10. In the power user mode I'm 1 or 2 out of 10 in my skill level.

If microsoft was "better" than i'd use windows in preference. (Better = easyier, simple and does the job. I use Word, Excell, powerpoint, photoshop, In design, Explorer, iPhoto, itunes(mac has now done for the pc) etc)

The trouble is there are two types of discussions with mac v pc. One, where the argument is about market share (betamax v VHS) and with an average pc user. Two, it's with the power user who can techno babble me out of the water. In fact on one occasion I went to an apple web site and got my responses to the 'discussion' from power users there.

It would be interesting, albeit over my head, to read 2 power users arguments....go start a fight http://forums.macrumors.com/forumdisplay.php?f=54

As for the HD going down when this happend on a mac I was able to start from a cd and recover most of the info. All I wanted to do on the pc was start up from the cd so the the HD was'nt working so hard...so I could sneak in and copy stuff. Instead when I "banged" the HD and it started. I started to copy stuff but as soon as it failed the pc shut down as that was where it was getting its info from. Surely if I could start up from the cd it would not crash as the HD is now not related to the "thinking"?

This is my point really as an average user on a mac I could do stuff but on a pc you need an expert. As a business you have top pay for experts.

I told my pc expert (I pay him) how i would have tried to resolve the problem on a mac he said "I had better spread the word for people not to buy mac - as I would be out of a job!"

I'm not an expert - but you don't need to be on a mac.

(viruses is another pc problem! Sshhh don't tell those geeks that write them about macs)

PS what is a bios?

 

[dannyboy]

is it plugged in?

 

[glosterseagul]

PS I agree with the one button melarky; but on OSX you can plug in a 2 button usb mouse and both buttons work. (Incl the scroll roll)

Rang Dell for a 40gig disc £220 + vat + delivery + and they can get stuffed.

Got one for £75 +vat.

Cant get it to start still; but at least it sees the HD since I gave it a loving tap. Now half way through loading XP it says error and tries to start again. Very lucky to get the stuff off it yesterday....

I'll keep trying; but where is the data for emails?

 

[Cian]

BIOS - Basic Input Output System. A way to configure the hardware of a machine. Mac's have OpenFirmware to do the same job, just its a bitch to get into (Ctrl-AppleKey-O-F *before* the system chime (assuming the machines still chime on bootup)). It also didn't have a GUI when I last used it so you needed another machine to connect by serial or USB to use it....

E-mail data depends on the client, what is it?

And I'm a PC user, not a Windows user... or a Linux one before someone accuses me of that terrible crime

The reason a PC-repairer would be out of business if Mac's were more common is down to Microsoft not the i386 architechture, BTw

 

[glosterseagul]

Is Client mean application.

Outlook Express is the email program

 

[Cian]

Client is a generic term for an application which accesses the internet in a mode other than HTTP on the user side - email client, ftp client, chat client, and so forth

The email files are store in

C:\Documents and Settings\Application Data (thats a hidden folder btw)\Identities\AWholeLoadOfHexadecimalWhichVariesBySystem\Microsoft\Outlook Express

You need to have "Show hidden files and folders" active

 

[Cian]

Oops, its C:\Documents and Settings\USERNAME\LocalSettings\Application Data, and then the rest of the string after that

Haven't used Windows in about three months so this is off the top of my head

 

[glosterseagul]

Thanks! MYOB.

Is there a way of starting up with the HD in place so I can get the emails? A new HD is coming Friday.

I just keep thinking about the mac option of strting up from a cd - can i do something similar?

 

[beorhthelm]

i think you've missed the point about this HD problem Glosterseagul... Its royally f***ed. Its not the OS thats to blame, but the actual physical hardware. Thats why a sharp bang allowed it to work for a bit. When you boot up to the recovery console or install XP from scratch you are doing the same as the Mac starting from CD thing. Just with a Mac you apparently hold down a few keys while in PC land you need to set the boot order to start with the CDROM device in the Bios (if its not already set, in which case a message will probaly say press space to boot from CD or somthing).

Bearing that in mind, the only way i can see you getting any more data off it is to acquire a 2.5" (laptop) to 3.5" (std PC) IDE cable converter, plug it into a normal PC and see if it can be read. Or spend £'00s of pound at a specialist (they can get just abot any data back if you pay enough).


MYOB, if you dont use Windows or Linux, pray what obscure OS do you run? and btw a browser is a client too

 

[glosterseagul]

Well probably...but

The PC starts up, because it now sees the HD, but halfway throuh the start-up it stops. So, as the HD can be seen, if the system would have been started up from a cd...surely it will be more stable as it is only one "sector' (?) that is corrupt. and if it fails the whole system will not shut down. I know I keep on about mac but I can only compare what I would do on it. The fact that the computer can run without a HD on a mac - thats all I want the pc to do. So if I try and copy a file that has a bad "sector" it will just say "sorry a disk error has occured" and not crash.

I like the cable option! Thanks - I will find out about it

MYOB is into BeOS - Does that run on any machine? I seem to remember it on a mac.

Re-the Browser being a client - that's what I understood from MYOB. "Client is a generic term for an application which accesses the internet"

or was it this bit "in a mode other than HTTP on the user side" which I didn't understand

 

[Cian]

"in a mode other than HTTP" = while browsers are clients, no-one ever calls them that.

I use BeOS and IRIX, with some OS/2. BeOS won't run on any Mac made after 1998, or before 1997 (nice short window there, eh). Namely because Apple refused to give them specs of the bootloader sequence and the Apple interpretation of OpenFirmware (which is an IEEE standard) was so bad they couldn't get it going just from the IEEE spec books on the OF3 machines. So currently it runs on aging aging Macintoshes, even more aging AT&T workstations, and most i586 machines (Pentium and higher PC's)

 

[Cian]

Oh, and as goes starting the system off a CD to get the e-mail files off onto a CD-R - Knoppix Linux. Its basically the only OS that'll boot off a CD to a level where a CD-Burner will work. However, I'm not sure it includes a CD-burner application

 

[beorhthelm]

I know I keep on about mac but I can only compare what I would do on it. The fact that the computer can run without a HD on a mac - thats all I want the pc to do. So if I try and copy a file that has a bad "sector" it will just say "sorry a disk error has occured" and not crash.

It just the same when you boot up the Windows Recovery console, you get a basic-ish OS that enables you to do file operations and such. Theres alot more in there than the DOS liek C:\ it shows you. Maybe your having to use a floppy to start the CDROM up, but you dont *need* to if your bios is set for CDROM booting. Ive not seen this Mac CD boot thing, maybe it has a nice GUI OS but theres more to an OS than some nice icons etc, like some decent preconfigured hardware drivers (afterall Apple controlls whats plugged in). As MYOB points out there's Knoppix thats a full blown Linux OS that runs completly off CD. You can do it with Windows too with a little tinkering. I think maybe you're making the assumption Windows=PC, but the truth is the "IBM PC Compatible" chesnut describes hardware, its very flexible and open to you running anyhting you like that supports the hardware, and boot from anything the low level hardware interfaces (ie the BIOS) supports. you can boot straight from the network if you have a server set up for it, and certain Dell models have replaced the Floppy with a bootable usb port.

Originally posted by MYOB
I use BeOS and IRIX, with some OS/2.

Ive heard alot of good things about BeOS, better than a Mac they say, but understand its died now due to lack of support. It seems along with IRIX and OS/2 you're a connoisseur of OS's the market forgot . Ive got a SGI Indy kicking about but no monitor, like to know if you know how easy it is to get them working with std PC monitors (something to do with green sync signal ).

As for clients, they are defined by how they work, not what they do or how they are commonly percieved: they handle data requested/sent to a server. id point out that from the original list, ftp clients are rarley just that, but an application capable of both server and client ends of the relationship. and they're not confided to the internet either. Come on, lets educate the people, its all simple once you know how

 

[Cian]

Ive heard alot of good things about BeOS, better than a Mac they say, but understand its died now due to lack of support. It seems along with IRIX and OS/2 you're a connoisseur of OS's the market forgot . Ive got a SGI Indy kicking about but no monitor, like to know if you know how easy it is to get them working with std PC monitors (something to do with green sync signal )

Just OS's that work as advertised

My SGI box is an Indy as well, and I'm using a Philips panel on it. You need a HD15-13W3 convertor. Reputable Systems (www.reputable.com) and Elara (www.elara.ie) have them, but they can be pricy. Elara's ones cost almost as much as buying a SGI O2 (which is far faster than the Indy and supports PC monitors natively) off eBay.

Almost all monitors support sync-on-green - if it works with a Matrox Millenium Gx00, it'll work with an Indy