Any real solicitor types on here?

[SussexHoop]

Hoop Junior had her mobile confiscated at school today as she had it with her in the library. I've got no problem with them confiscating it and giving it back at the end of the day but the c ts seem to think they're entitled to keep it all weekend.

I'd like some serious advice please as to where I stand with this ...

 

[Barrel of Fun]

I would imagine that unless there is something clearly written into the school rules, such as how long they are allowed to keep hold of a confiscted object then you would be entitled to get it back ASAP.

I am not a lawyer, but the son and grandson of lawyers.


Any reasonable teacher would pass it over to you and expect you to act as you see fit, surely?

 

[Clothes Peg]

You've probably signed a sort of "home/school agreement" when Hoop jr joined the school. It is likely to have contained some kind of rule about confiscation for a period of time that the teacher deems reasonable.

 

[Beach Hut]

Hardly requires legal advice does it ?

Perhaps she might learn from this ?

 

[Robot Chicken]

Just done some searching:

Confiscation of inappropriate items: What the law now provides

3.8.1 The EIA 2006 provides two things. First, the overall power to enforce disciplinary penalties, described in section 3.3 of this guidance, would cover the use of confiscation as a disciplinary penalty (sanction). That includes seizure and also, as appropriate, the retention and disposal of certain items. As with other sanctions, the sanction of confiscation must be applied in a reasonable and proportionate way. But it would be entirely proper for a school to include confiscation as one of the disciplinary measures that might be applied as part of the school's behaviour policy.

3.8.2 Second, the Act provides a member of staff with a specific statutory defence if he or she proves that the seizure, retention or disposal was lawful. Unauthorised seizure, retention or disposal of a pupil's property interferes with that pupil's rights under Article 1 of the First Protocol to the European Convention on Human Rights, which guarantees entitlement to peaceful enjoyment of one's possessions. It also interferes with the pupil's rights under domestic law.

A consequence of this is that a teacher or other member of staff may only seize, retain or dispose of a pupil's property if he or she has authority to do it. The Education and Inspections Act 2006 provides that authority when the confiscation is a lawful disciplinary penalty. It is for the staff member confiscating to show the legality of the confiscation since he or she has made the decision to interfere with the property. If authority can be shown, the staff member has a defence to all proceedings against him or her and is not liable for any damage or loss arising.

3.8.3 For the confiscation to be lawful it must be proportionate, necessary in a democratic society and in pursuance of a legitimate aim. Generally the aim pursued in confiscating property is maintaining an environment conducive to learning, one which safeguards the rights of other pupils to be educated.

However, proportionality is very relevant, and that in turn depends on the value of the property. If a pupil is playing music loudly on a personal music-player, it is likely that total destruction of the device after it has been seized is disproportionate, which would make such a step unlawful. Taking the device and returning it at the end of the school day is much more likely to be a proportionate response. On the other hand, if a paper ball or piece of chewing gum has been confiscated, disposal of the item is likely to be a proportionate response.

3.8.4 A separate legal provision in the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006, inserted in the Education Act 1996, makes it lawful for certain school staff to search suspected pupils for knives or other weapons without consent. It also deals with the seizure of items found during the course of a search. Associated guidance sets out that schools can also screen pupils without suspicion using electronic means such as wands or arches.

3.8.5 Schools should note, however, that the legal power for school staff to search pupils currently only extends to weapons. A pupil might reasonably be asked to turn out their pockets or to hand over an item such as a personal music-player that is causing disruption, and the school might use its legal power to discipline if the pupil unreasonably refuses to cooperate. However, if it is felt necessary for a pupil to be searched for (say) illegal drugs or stolen property, that should be done by the police rather than school staff using the appropriate powers available to them.

3.8.6 Schools should also note that, while confiscation of a mobile phone is legitimate, searching through a phone or accessing text messages without the pupil's permission is not. In some circumstances it may be reasonable for a member of staff to ask a pupil to reveal a message for the purpose of establishing whether cyberbullying has occurred, for instance, but if the pupil refuses then the member of staff should not enforce the instruction. The staff member can, however, legitimately issue a disciplinary penalty for failure to follow a reasonable instruction.

http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/wholes...sandstaff/confiscation/whatthelawnowprovides/

 

[Lady Bracknell]

Schools are supposed to have policies covering this sort of thing and it'd be helpful to discover what rules apply here so far as confiscated items are concerned. I'm no expert either but presumably, at least one of the reasons Hoop Junior has a phone is so that she can stay in contact with you - something I'd have thought particularly important over the weekend. Given that you will have bought the phone for her I would go into school and politely ask that it is returned to you.

 

[SussexHoop]

Given that you will have bought the phone for her I would go into school and politely ask that it is returned to you.

My wife has already done that and they wouldn't which is why I want to know where we stand legally speaking.

I have no problem with the punishment being reasonable and proportionate but I think keeping it over the weekend is not proportionate.

 

[Robot Chicken]

Another search:

ITEMS RESTRICTED IN SCHOOL
The following items may not be brought into school by students: · Cigarettes, matches or lighters. · Tipp-ex fluids. · Any item which may be considered an offensive weapon. · Alcoholic products. The school strongly recommends that expensive and/or desirable items such as personal CD players, games machines, cameras are not brought into school. The school cannot accept liability for lost or stolen property and parents should ensure that articles are covered by their own insurance policies. Mobile Phones We discourage students from bringing mobile phones to school for three reasons: i) a mobile phone is an easy and desirable item to steal. ii) there are current concerns about the health hazards of overuse of mobile phones. iii) most importantly, we are concerned that students should regard time at school as an opportunity to develop independence and self-reliance within a secure and caring working environment. Phone calls to family and friends can diminish this important aspect of development. However, we do accept that parents have concerns about safety on the journey to school and after leaving school in the afternoon, so we do not ban mobiles from the premises. Our clear rule is: If a student brings a mobile phone into school, then it must be switched off for the whole of the school day. The Governors and Headteacher are concerned that a minority of parents are not supporting the school in its enforcement of this clear and sensible rule. Any breach of the 'mobile phone rule' will result in confiscation of the phone for five school days. It will be placed in the school safe and returned to the student at the end of the confiscation period, or to a parent on personal visit to the school.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

New York has some interesting regulations that require confiscated phones be returned at the end of the school day on the first two violations, and at the end of the school year for the third.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0718/p20s01-legn.html

 

[Robot Chicken]

New York has some interesting regulations that require confiscated phones be returned at the end of the school day on the first two violations, and at the end of the school year for the third.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0718/p20s01-legn.html

What about the actual sim card? Can that be returned?

 

[Clothes Peg]

I hope the phone is off and has a PIN lock so no-one goes running up a huge bill.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Another search:

The Governors and Headteacher are concerned that a minority of parents are not supporting the school in its enforcement of this clear and sensible rule.

As a former school governor, I would say that there is nothing more disruptive to the effective running of a school than parents who don't support the decisions of staff.

SussexHoop is hardly helping things by asking if some breach of the law has taken place.

If you've got an issue with a decision taken at school, why not just get in touch with them and ask for an explanation?

 

[Bad Ash]

The last line of that quote states that a phone would be returned to a parent if they go to the school. This does not seem to have been followed.

 

[Yorkie]

The last sentence of Downloaded Penguins post

It will be placed in the school safe and returned to the student at the end of the confiscation period, or to a parent on personal visit to the school.

quoteriginally posted by roz
Given that you will have bought the phone for her I would go into school and politely ask that it is returned to you.



quote Sussexhoop

My wife has already done that and they wouldn't which is why I want to know where we stand legally speaking.

 

[Robot Chicken]

Confiscation period...is there one? My quote says 5 school days. That would include a weekend too.

 

[DJ Leon]

Hoop Junior had her mobile confiscated at school today as she had it with her in the library. I've got no problem with them confiscating it and giving it back at the end of the day but the c ts seem to think they're entitled to keep it all weekend.

I'd like some serious advice please as to where I stand with this ...

Why not support the school's decision? Or do you want to make it difficult for them to punish pupils for breaking the rules?

 

[Robot Chicken]

Re: Re: Any real solicitor types on here?

Why not support the school's decision? Or do you want to make it difficult for them to punish pupils for breaking the rules?

Was she actually using it in the libary? Either way, holding it until Friday afternoon is sufficient. Holding it over the weekend is out of order.

 

[bailey]

Just done some searching:

3.8.3 For the confiscation to be lawful it must be proportionate, necessary in a democratic society and in pursuance of a legitimate aim. Generally the aim pursued in confiscating property is maintaining an environment conducive to learning, one which safeguards the rights of other pupils to be educated.

However, proportionality is very relevant, and that in turn depends on the value of the property. If a pupil is playing music loudly on a personal music-player, it is likely that total destruction of the device after it has been seized is disproportionate, which would make such a step unlawful. Taking the device and returning it at the end of the school day is much more likely to be a proportionate response. On the other hand, if a paper ball or piece of chewing gum has been confiscated, disposal of the item is likely to be a proportionate response.

http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/wholes...sandstaff/confiscation/whatthelawnowprovides/

Perhaps this is the relevant bit. Over the weekend would seem disproportionate. There is also a safety issue here where it is reasonable to expect that Hoop's daughter (depending on age) will spend some time away from her parents over the weekend and it is likely part of the reason for her having a phone is to be able to contact her parents in an emergency.

This really should to be sorted out through discussion between the school and the parents.

 

[bhaexpress]

Bit of a catch 22 situation here, I know schools can be draconian but some kids (not saying that this applies to SussexHoop Jnr) are inclined to try to push teachers and schools as far as they can. As such the schools have to make some unilateral decisions that may offend some parents but in the main, much as I disliked my school I have to side with them on this issue. The school cannot be seen to make exceptions I'm afraid. I'm sure SussexHoop Jnr can use the time she would have spent texting reflecting on why her phone was confiscated.

 

[Bad Ash]

Confiscation period...is there one? My quote says 5 school days. That would include a weekend too.

That's irrelevant as the confiscation applies to it being returned to the child, it should be returned to the parent imediately. This didn't happen.