another nail in the tory coffin

[dingodan]

What actually was said:-

Lord Freud's comments came during a fringe meeting at the Conservative conference last month when he was asked whether it was preferable for someone with a disability, who could not get a job, to be paid less than the minimum wage - and to have their income topped up with benefits - in order to give them the experience of work and boost their self esteem.

'£2 an hour'
In response to the question, from Conservative councillor David Scott, he reportedly said there "was no system for going below the minimum wage".

But he added: "Now, there is a small… there is a group, and I know exactly who you mean, where actually as you say they're not worth the full wage and actually I'm going to go and think about that particular issue, whether there is something we can do nationally, and without distorting the whole thing, which actually if someone wants to work for £2 an hour, and it's working can we actually…"

And that's the nasties in a nutshell, not only do they want to penalise the most in need, they convince themselves that they're doing these people a favour. I've got more respect for those from the right who will tell you that it's all about themselves and their family and everyone else can go **** themselves - Than those who claim they're trying to help those in needs. Nasty, lying b*stards.

Great way to caricature "the right". I'm not sure there are many people, if any, who believe that everyone else can go **** themselves.

The basic question here is this, is it better for someone to work for a low wage, or better for them not to work at all? & I am not talking about forcing anyone into work, or having people in work because I think they should be. I am talking about all of those people who would like to work, who are demoralized and depressed at not being in anyway productive or independent. There are many I am sure who would like to work, even for a small wage.

What would you say to a disabled person who says that they would like to work, they appreciate that what they can do is limited, but they would be happy to be compensated accordingly. Would you say no? No sorry, it's the minimum wage or nothing. That's how it is at the moment. Who suffers? The employer? No because he just won't hire this person. It's the disabled person, or the unskilled unemployed who suffer from the minimum wage.

While you criticize this guy for appearing to say that disabled people are "not worth the minimum wage", in practice, what you are saying is that if a disabled person cannot command the minimum wage from an employer, then they shouldn't work at all. Do you realize that your approach leaves many disabled people with less than they could otherwise have?

 

[lawros left foot]

Shutting down Remploy now makes perfect sense, a pool of desperate, disabled people begging to work for £2 an hour, a Tory wet dream. And the added bonus, they can oay anything they earn back to the Treasury in the form of the Bedroom tax, everyone's a winner

 

[lawros left foot]

This was mentioned on the BBCs Daily Politics after Pmqs.
Nick Robinson said the quote looked as if it was taken out of context.
Asked if it was possible to pay disabled people less than the minimum wage and get the government to cover the difference he said that it was an idea worth looking at if it enabled disabled people to get jobs and help their self esteme if the individual so requested.
Milliband just took a quote out of context.Bit like forgetting the economy in his speech and also not wanting the English to have the only say on English law.

Isn't this what Remploy used to do before the nasty party shut it down?

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

This is what you get from the Tories, its good for small businessmen to have a large pool of desperate workers that have to accept low wages as standard.
There was an interesting article the other day I read in which it turns out that a high percentage of Sainsburys lower ranking staff are on Family Credit and other benefits to top their wages up to a living wage. I'm sure lots of the other supermatket retailers are paying the same low rate despite most making hundreds of £M pounds in profits annually.

The Minimum Wage was a good starting point but a Living Wage should now be legalised. Of course the Tories will say this will lead to employers laying off or not employing workers as they know they would rather have a huge layer of people living like drones with no hope of any improvements in their drudgery.

All the supermarkets are doing the same , paying about 30p to 40p an hour above the national minimum wage , as a result 90% on the basic grade receive state benefits to top up their wages.

 

[severnside gull]

Most people, both left and right of the political spectrum, would believe that society is defined by the way it treats the most vulnerable, disadvantaged, or restricted by whatever condition they have. Sadly, the uneven distribution of wealth, and encouragement of open greed, means that 'advanced' societies have lost their way-if ever they had a way.

Any society that claims to have consideration for others would ensure that anyone such as your daughter would be given an equal opportunity, and have their needs understood in a way that allows them to flourish, and I say flourish, not just exist.

Your daughter is not a challenge, or a statistic, she presents an opportunity to show what collective consideration means. It angers me, and has done for a while, the way this government has facilitated the demonisation of those who need support- It sees them as a social burden and lumps them in with the lazy and workshy. The job centres are the shiny shop front of this.

I wish her every success, she is the equal of us all, and nothing less.

Seriously well said

 

[vegster]

All the supermarkets are doing the same , paying about 30p to 40p an hour above the national minimum wage , as a result 90% on the basic grade receive state benefits to top up their wages.

Isn't this a s@it world to be living in these days ? Just thought I would check the Sainsbury's story out online and found that they have jobs for delivery drivers that pay an extra 50p an hour more than a shopworker to give them a grand annual salary of £11,606 pa. So what kind of hope is there for an ordinary couple who may have just had a baby and have a mortgage or £500 a month rent to find each month ?

Just had a look at their profits for 2013, £433 profit on sales of £13.9 Billion ! Maybe their tagline should read " Work Hard for Less " ?

 

[mikeyjh]

Great way to caricature "the right". I'm not sure there are many people, if any, who believe that everyone else can go **** themselves.

The basic question here is this, is it better for someone to work for a low wage, or better for them not to work at all? & I am not talking about forcing anyone into work, or having people in work because I think they should be. I am talking about all of those people who would like to work, who are demoralized and depressed at not being in anyway productive or independent. There are many I am sure who would like to work, even for a small wage.

What would you say to a disabled person who says that they would like to work, they appreciate that what they can do is limited, but they would be happy to be compensated accordingly. Would you say no? No sorry, it's the minimum wage or nothing. That's how it is at the moment. Who suffers? The employer? No because he just won't hire this person. It's the disabled person, or the unskilled unemployed who suffer from the minimum wage.

While you criticize this guy for appearing to say that disabled people are "not worth the minimum wage", in practice, what you are saying is that if a disabled person cannot command the minimum wage from an employer, then they shouldn't work at all. Do you realize that your approach leaves many disabled people with less than they could otherwise have?

There are plenty, it's at the core of the nasties to not give a hoot about those in need. I don't buy any of the above, you could argue the same for slavery. At least they'll put a roof over your head and let you live off scraps? It's all I can afford guv, I've got my margins to think about.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Isn't this a s@it world to be living in these days ? Just thought I would check the Sainsbury's story out online and found that they have jobs for delivery drivers that pay an extra 50p an hour more than a shopworker to give them a grand annual salary of £11,606 pa. So what kind of hope is there for an ordinary couple who may have just had a baby and have a mortgage or £500 a month rent to find each month ?

Just had a look at their profits for 2013, £433 profit on sales of £13.9 Billion ! Maybe their tagline should read " Work Hard for Less " ?

Asda still pay their delivery drivers the same hourly rate as staff working on the shop floor.

 

[Skylar]

Ed Milliband ejecting disabled people from disabled seats at his conference to make way for his up and coming muppets so when he left the stage he didn't want to be seen shaking disabled peoples hands. Typical Labour, utter scum.

 

[mikeyjh]

Ed Milliband ejecting disabled people from disabled seats at his conference to make way for his up and coming muppets so when he left the stage he didn't want to be seen shaking disabled peoples hands. Typical Labour, utter scum.

I assume this libellous post will be treated accordingly, given that I've seen no suggestion that Ed made this call.

Note - If it truly did happen, it's despicable, but it is not typical of the Labour Party.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

All the supermarkets are doing the same , paying about 30p to 40p an hour above the national minimum wage , as a result 90% on the basic grade receive state benefits to top up their wages.

Sounds to me that the real benefit scroungers are the businesses that exploit the system to ensure that the taxpayer subsidises their labour costs.

 

[South Stand Rebel]

I hate to tell you all this, but one of the reasons we have such high unemployment is because some people and jobs are not worth the "minimum wage".

I know everyone wants us to agree on a livable wage, and try to ensure that everyone can earn it, however, this is what ends up happening.

A simple labor oriented job exists and could be done by an unqualified and unemployed person for a small wage. But that would be illegal. Pay the unskilled unemployed person the same as better qualified staff doing more difficult tasks, or alternatively, don't hire for this small job. The employer invariably chooses the latter, and finds another way to get the job done without hiring for more than they think the job is worth.

The good news, nobody is suffering with a wage lower than what we have decided is "acceptable". The bad news, our unskilled unemployed person continues to be so.

Errm.. I maybe being a little slow here, but exactly who decides that simple unskilled manual work is only worth a wage below the minimum level? If the majority of wealth is earned by a tiny minority, then surely there must be something wrong with the wage structure in this country? How is it possible in this day and age for someone doing a full time job (40 hours or more of unskilled or otherwise) to not be paid enough to cover the lowest rent, heating, clothing, council tax and food bills? Why are so many people who work full time having to claim benefits in order to get by?

Surely if an employer cannot afford to give an employee a livable wage, then that business isn't a viable one?

 

[dingodan]

There are plenty, it's at the core of the nasties to not give a hoot about those in need. I don't buy any of the above, you could argue the same for slavery. At least they'll put a roof over your head and let you live off scraps? It's all I can afford guv, I've got my margins to think about.

Everyone cares about those in need. The right and the left, conservative and liberal. To say otherwise makes you hard to take seriously.

 

[severnside gull]

Everyone cares about those in need. The right and the left, conservative and liberal. To say otherwise makes you hard to take seriously.

Palpably untrue
The gap between what people say and what they do is a fair measure of truth.
The current government's record on the manipulation of disability benefit medicals in particular to the disadvantage of legitimate claimants speaks volumes but before we get too precious, the previous administration's record in the field was less than ennobling. That they quite possibly shared this same "advisor" gives the lie to your statement.

 

[dingodan]

Errm.. I maybe being a little slow here, but exactly who decides that simple unskilled manual work is only worth a wage below the minimum level? If the majority of wealth is earned by a tiny minority, then surely there must be something wrong with the wage structure in this country? How is it possible in this day and age for someone doing a full time job (40 hours or more of unskilled or otherwise) to not be paid enough to cover the lowest rent, heating, clothing, council tax and food bills? Why are so many people who work full time having to claim benefits in order to get by?

Surely if an employer cannot afford to give an employee a livable wage, then that business isn't a viable one?

Who decides how much wages should be? It's really a decision about how much labour is worth.

People will hate me for saying this dirty word, but prices are determined by the market place.

Sure, you can mess with the market, fix prices higher or lower than the market wants, but I am not a defender of the market because I'm a cutthroat capitalist. I am a defender of the market because when you mess with it people end up working 40 hours a week without being able to afford their rent, utilities, clothing, heating, council tax and food etc.

People cannot afford theses things today, not because they are paid less than yesterday, but because we did not respect the laws of economics. We messed with the market, not in terms of the price of labour, but the other half of the transaction, the price of money. As a result prices have gone up significantly more than we are able to counter them by tweaking manipulated wages.

The lesson we should have learned here is that you don't mess with the market, in the same way that we might be weary of messing with the weather. We'll never learn though.

"Despots and democratic majorities are drunk with power. They must reluctantly admit that they are subject to the laws of nature. But they reject the very notion of economic law . . . economic history is a long record of government policies that failed because they were designed with a bold disregard for the laws of economics." - Ludwig von Mises.

 

[Ludensian Gull]

As a full time carer my "earnings" from the state by way of Carers Allowance are considerably less than £2 an hour but there are whispers that they want to cut it out completely. Their consistent determination to demonise the acutely sick and disabled is an outrage but I guess as long as they can vote themselves a 10% pay rise someone has to suffer further in order to afford it.

Same here mate, £61 a week for a full time job, bloody scandalous

 

[Tarpon]

Some places are hanging on & pay Living Wage but will be under very heavy scrutiny as council has to save £100m over next 4 years...

http://www.ableandwilling.org.uk/about-us

 

[Skylar]

I assume this libellous post will be treated accordingly, given that I've seen no suggestion that Ed made this call.

Note - If it truly did happen, it's despicable, but it is not typical of the Labour Party.

Search the web and you'll find it.

 

[Skylar]

£56 a week carer allowance I get

 

[matbha]

£56 a week carer allowance I get

Go on the dole like my neighbours , they do **** all they have 3 kids cars motorbikes ,I and my wife both work and I bet they have more than we do !!