[News] An interesting point...

[wellquickwoody]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-54695580

I’m sure that this will sadly end up in the bear pit, but worthy of a short lived attempt at civilised discussion beforehand perhaps....

 

[Grassman]

Personally, I like to watch old Christopher Hitchins' videos on his dislike of, and the dangers of, Islamic fundamentalism. A glorious time when you weren't called a nazi or a fascist for having a genuine discussion about fundamentalist religion, but could look at it from the point of view of it being against most liberal ideas. Not anymore, so good luck with this thread....

 

[beorhthelm]

as i hear things on the Manchester arena, everyone wants to find someone to blame "why didnt anyone notice he was a bomber". unfortunately several witnesses have given accounts that encourage this, with memories "he looked wrong" yet none of them acted at the time. he didnt have a cartoon style dynamite and clock, man carrying a large rucksack near a major train station is not really suspicious.

 

[Silverhatch]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-54695580

I’m sure that this will sadly end up in the bear pit, but worthy of a short lived attempt at civilised discussion beforehand perhaps....

The bomber was a brainwashed funda(MENTAL)ist. He was ill. The 18-year-old security guard will know, in the depth of his soul, that if he'd approached the bloke he'd be in a million pieces now for his £4.24 an hour. There is so much wrong about this story on so many levels about society and its ills.

 

[Bozza]

As a point of order, it would be really helpful, when starting a thread like this if you actually mentioned what it was about instead of just describing something as being "interesting" and dropping a link. Example...

Thread title: Manchester Arena Inquiry: Security 'did not approach bomber over racism fears'

Post: It was sad to hear that a security guard at the Manchester Arena bombing did not approach the bomber as he thought he may appear as a racist for doing so. That an 18-year-old on £4.24 an hour was put in this life or death situation doesn't feel quite right. How much training had he been given ahead of these sort of placements, and how prepared was he make what may feel like bold decisions to protect crowd safety?​

Do you see how that might be a slightly better way to start a thread, even if it takes slight more effort?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-54695580

I’m sure that this will sadly end up in the bear pit, but worthy of a short lived attempt at civilised discussion beforehand perhaps....

Poor bastid. Damned if he did, double-damned if he didn't. Worked at Showsec events for £4.24 per hour, made to make a judgement call that would get him huge grief either way. Fault lies fairly and squarely with the security services for failing to properly monitor the bomber. But, hey, let's hang the little guy out to dry. Disgraceful

 

[Napper]

Interesting one. Parallels with stop and search on younger black males .

Personally I think we should target individuals / races etc if the stats back up that it is prudent to do so.

Take airlines , muslim males taking flights should certainly be subjected to more checks and suspicion.

 

[dazzer6666]

Poor bastid. Damned if he did, double-damned if he didn't. Worked at Showsec events for £4.24 per hour, made to make a judgement call that would get him huge grief either way. Fault lies fairly and squarely with the security services for failing to properly monitor the bomber. But, hey, let's hang the little guy out to dry. Disgraceful

This 100%. I'm not going to be attaching any blame to an 18 year old on below minimum wage who 'could' have done something and almost did.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Interesting one. Parallels with stop and search on younger black males .

Personally I think we should target individuals / races etc if the stats back up that it is prudent to do so.

Take airlines , muslim males taking flights should certainly be subjected to more checks and suspicion.

And how would you identify muslim males, because religion certainly isn't stated on my passport

 

[keaton]

I think that says very little about Islam/concerns about racism and far more about the lack of training and systems in place for security at major events and someone trying to shift blame

 

[Guinness Boy]

Interesting one. Parallels with stop and search on younger black males .

Personally I think we should target individuals / races etc if the stats back up that it is prudent to do so.

The bit about races is self fulfilling nonsense. Example - more black and "Islamic looking" people are searched because of their race. Because more are searched, statistically they become "more searched" and the number, if not proportion, of dodgy goods found increases. Journo asks high ranking police person why they are searching more BAME people - "because, statistically we find more knives / drugs / guns". If you only EVER searched black people you'd only ever find dodgy goods on black people.

I really thought a football forum would be better than this. Can literally no one on here remember the police targetting football fans?

As for "individuals", well, that's what the security services should be doing already - not untrained teens in hi viz on minimum wage.

 

[wellquickwoody]

As a point of order, it would be really helpful, when starting a thread like this if you actually mentioned what it was about instead of just describing something as being "interesting" and dropping a link. Example...

Thread title: Manchester Arena Inquiry: Security 'did not approach bomber over racism fears'

Post: It was sad to hear that a security guard at the Manchester Arena bombing did not approach the bomber as he thought he may appear as a racist for doing so. That an 18-year-old on £4.24 an hour was put in this life or death situation doesn't feel quite right. How much training had he been given ahead of these sort of placements, and how prepared was he make what may feel like bold decisions to protect crowd safety?​

Do you see how that might be a slightly better way to start a thread, even if it takes slight more effort?

I was actually trying to avoid the thread being IMMEDIATELY moved to the Bear Pit before any discussion had even started. My apologies to you Boza.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I really thought a football forum would be better than this.

It did used to be, and I'm sure that isn't Rose tinted glasses

 

[Napper]

The bit about races is self fulfilling nonsense. Example - more black and "Islamic looking" people are searched because of their race. Because more are searched, statistically they become "more searched" and the number, if not proportion, of dodgy goods found increases. Journo asks high ranking police person why they are searching more BAME people - "because, statistically we find more knives / drugs / guns". If you only EVER searched black people you'd only ever find dodgy goods on black people.

I really thought a football forum would be better than this. Can literally no one on here remember the police targetting football fans?

As for "individuals", well, that's what the security services should be doing already - not untrained teens in hi viz on minimum wage.

If you look at the knife crime / deaths and gang issues then you will see where a lot of these issues reside.

 

[zefarelly]

A no win situation. poor sod has to live with the fact his gut instinct was right. He's only a kid too . . . bugger all training as well I'd wager.

anyone with a big back pack should be stopped and check, especially if there's any whiff of a bottle top.

what flavour/shade you are is utterly irrelevant.

 

[portslade seagull]

Poor kid damned if did and equally damned if he didn't. My question would be why is an 18yr old employed as security in the 1st place

 

[Guinness Boy]

I was actually trying to avoid the thread being IMMEDIATELY moved to the Bear Pit before any discussion had even started. My apologies to you Boza.

Not sure why you'd think that. Bozza and I have both posted on it while keeping it on the BB. All people have to do is remain civil and stick to the subject.

 

[Guinness Boy]

If you look at the knife crime / deaths and gang issues then you will see where a lot of these issues reside.

And if you look at the ultimate outcome of targetted racial searches you get this.

Black men searched over fist bumping

So, is it right, in normal non-covid times, to search a group of men in CP and Stone Island having a beer near a football ground?

 

[timbha]

Even with the relatively small number of posts so far it is clear that people are believing the speculation. From what I’ve read (which might be untrue) his hourly wage was well over £4.24 ph, he tried to call his supervisors but couldn’t get through, and if he had challenged Abedi the bomb would have been detonated there and then. His employer claims that he had received proper training.

More at fault appear to be the police who were stood in a group rather than dispersed to the high risk points.

It appears that there are lots of lessons to be learnt with the key one being there is no place for fundamentalist terrorists in this world.

 

[GT49er]

Poor lad - feel sorry for him. But of course, he's not the first, sadly, to have had the same problem - Social Service departments in some grooming and abuse cases, for instance, have faced the same dilemna. The police too.