After how many passes from a set piece can a goal be considered from "open play"?

[8ace]

1

 

[The Legend that IS Lawro]

Depends upon the definition of a 'pass' in this instance Shirley?

 

[Turkey]

I guess if its not 1, our last away game from open play was even longer ago, as Ince's goal at Charlton was from a free kick cross wasn't it?

 

[shaolinpunk]

Depends.

I'd say the set piece is over once any of the following things happen: a) the ball goes in the net, b) the ball goes out of play, c) the ball is cleared by the defence, d) the defending team takes possession of the ball or e) the ball is retained by the attacking team but they have receded a significant way back up the pitch towards their own goal.

So it could be one pass or it could be ten.

For me, Clive, this is in and around the right answer.

 

[Everest]

Depends.

I'd say the set piece is over once any of the following things happen: a) the ball goes in the net, b) the ball goes out of play, c) the ball is cleared by the defence, d) the defending team takes possession of the ball or e) the ball is retained by the attacking team but they have receded a significant way back up the pitch towards their own goal.

So it could be one pass or it could be ten.

How far back do you count as significant?
5, 10, 20, 50 yards?

Maybe a new thread is needed for this.

 

[studio150]

A goal scored from a rebound off the goalkeeper or woodwork following a penalty (not by the penalty-taker in the second case, obviously) doesn't result in (pen) after the scorer's name. So in that case the answer is one.

Unless its one of those very rare penalties where the penalty taker passes the ball for someone running into the area to score, then the examples given are not passes, given that the penalty taker will be shooting and not passing, so the answer is nil.

Once the free kick is taken the ball is in play and therefore in open play.

 

[MattBackHome]

How far back do you count as significant?
5, 10, 20, 50 yards?

Maybe a new thread is needed for this.

Depends

 

[Bob!]

With a nod to an idea from El P on his "I would walk 500 miles" (or something) thread:

We have a set piece and some number of passes later we score (however unlikely that may seem). After how many passes can the goal be considered "from open play"?

For clarity: a pass from the set piece taker to Calde, who scores is classed as 1 pass.

Why?

 

[jimbob5]

The answer my friend, is blowing in the wind.

 

[Goldstone1976]

Why?

I'm not sure what you're questioning.... So can't answer, I'm afraid.

 

[GT49er]

I'm not sure what you're questioning.... So can't answer, I'm afraid.

The correct answer to the question 'Why?', as every parent should know, is of course 'Because!'

 

[Acker79]

Open play means the ball is in play.

From the laws of the game:

Free kick inside the penalty area
Direct or indirect free kick to the defending team:
• all opponents must be at least 9.15 m (10 yds) from the ball
• all opponents must remain outside the penalty area until the ball is in play
• the ball is in play when it is kicked directly out of the penalty area
• a free kick awarded in the goal area may be taken from any point inside
that area

Indirect free kick to the attacking team:
• all opponents must be at least 9.15 m (10 yds) from the ball until it is in
play, unless they are on their own goal line between the goalposts
• the ball is in play when it is kicked and moves
• an indirect free kick awarded inside the goal area must be taken on the
goal area line parallel to the goal line at the point nearest to where the
infringement occurred

Free kick outside the penalty area
• all opponents must be at least 9.15 m (10 yds) from the ball until it is in
play
• the ball is in play when it is kicked and moves
• the free kick is taken from the place where the infringement occurred or
from the position of the ball when the infringement occurred (according to
the infringement)​

The kick taking the free kick occurs before the ball is in play, ergo, a goal direct from a free kick is not an open play goal. A goal from the next touch is an open play goal.

 

[Goldstone1976]

Open play means the ball is in play......


.....The kick taking the free kick occurs before the ball is in play, ergo, a goal direct from a free kick is not an open play goal. A goal from the next touch is an open play goal.

Whoa - who says that "open play" is synonymous with "in play"? Well, obviously, you do; but do you have any evidence to back up this assertion?

I can't imagine that anyone would dispute your definition of "in play", not least because of your citing of the relevant Laws, but I see no content there that says that "in play" = "open play"; that's just your opinion; no?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Open play means the ball is in play.

From the laws of the game:

Free kick inside the penalty area
Direct or indirect free kick to the defending team:
• all opponents must be at least 9.15 m (10 yds) from the ball
• all opponents must remain outside the penalty area until the ball is in play
• the ball is in play when it is kicked directly out of the penalty area
• a free kick awarded in the goal area may be taken from any point inside
that area

Indirect free kick to the attacking team:
• all opponents must be at least 9.15 m (10 yds) from the ball until it is in
play, unless they are on their own goal line between the goalposts
• the ball is in play when it is kicked and moves
• an indirect free kick awarded inside the goal area must be taken on the
goal area line parallel to the goal line at the point nearest to where the
infringement occurred

Free kick outside the penalty area
• all opponents must be at least 9.15 m (10 yds) from the ball until it is in
play
• the ball is in play when it is kicked and moves
• the free kick is taken from the place where the infringement occurred or
from the position of the ball when the infringement occurred (according to
the infringement)​

The kick taking the free kick occurs before the ball is in play, ergo, a goal direct from a free kick is not an open play goal. A goal from the next touch is an open play goal.

It doesn't mention a corner kick.

 

[Prince Monolulu]

'Can' or 'Will' ?

 

[Acker79]

It doesn't mention a corner kick.

Same thing.

A corner kick is a method of restarting play.
A corner kick is awarded when the whole of the ball passes over the goal
line, either on the ground or in the air, having last touched a player of the
defending team, and a goal is not scored in accordance with Law 10.
A goal may be scored directly from a corner kick, but only against the opposing
team.

Procedure
• The ball must be placed inside the corner arc nearest to the point where
the ball crossed the goal line
• The corner fl agpost must not be moved
• Opponents must remain at least 9.15 m (10 yds) from the corner arc until
the ball is in play
• The ball must be kicked by a player of the attacking team
• The ball is in play when it is kicked and moves
• The kicker must not play the ball again until it has touched another player​

 

[Acker79]

Whoa - who says that "open play" is synonymous with "in play"? Well, obviously, you do; but do you have any evidence to back up this assertion?

I can't imagine that anyone would dispute your definition of "in play", not least because of your citing of the relevant Laws, but I see no content there that says that "in play" = "open play"; that's just your opinion; no?

It's language. 'Open Play' means the possession of the ball is open to anyone who can win it. Which it is only when the ball is in play.

 

[Prince Monolulu]

If we take a free-kick, the 'keeper tips it on to the bar, bounces off the bald pate of the thinning referee on to the corner flag and into the path of an onward rushing CMS at full pelt. He bangs it in off the knee of a hapless defender, was that from open play or a set-piece?

 

[Goldstone1976]

It's language. 'Open Play' means the possession of the ball is open to anyone who can win it. Which it is only when the ball is in play.

Obviously, in order for the game to be in an "open play" situation the ball has to be "in play" - again, I doubt anyone would dispute that.

However, your definition of "open play" in your second sentence is just that: your definition. Plenty of folk, including me, would say that "open play" has a more subtle meaning than the one you ascribe to it - something closer to "play that doesn't derive directly from a set piece situation". It was trying to get some form of view on what "directly" meant that prompted the poll. Your definition has the merit of simplicity and precision, but doesn't, imo, get at the more subtle situations.

Take, for example, the observation made earlier in the thread that a FK taker knocks the ball sideways a yard to a player who stops it dead for another player to kick into the goal. Most people have said that that is a rehearsed, training ground routine and therefore doesn't count as "open play". Yet, under your definition it definitely would. Do you think that said situation is an "open play" goal?

 

[Acker79]

Take, for example, the observation made earlier in the thread that a FK taker knocks the ball sideways a yard to a player who stops it dead for another player to kick into the goal. Most people have said that that is a rehearsed, training ground routine and therefore doesn't count as "open play". Yet, under your definition it definitely would. Do you think that said situation is an "open play" goal?

Yes. It may come from a practice routine, but it is still open play. The taker has touched it, there are no restrictions on the defending team. Play is open to everyone.