A Very Real Problem: Lack of Sports Facilities in Brighton & Hove

[Bold Seagull]

Many national and international developers have been scared off from Brighton due to a visionless council and a culture of nimbyism.

It takes a huge amount of money and work to get to a planning stage, and unfortunately, we've made it clear we're not an authority that welcomes or encourages quality development.

A progressive council with a vision for their city can attract and encourage investment and quality development through architectural competition, attracting the best planners and architects to produce award winning solutions.

Frank Ghery's first designs for the King Alfred were elegant, and restrained, but it wasn't until the council wouldn't budge on their 25% social housing (despite getting a leisure centre out of it!) and the scheme got diluted, the side buildings became larger, and financially it effectively put the development on a knife edge. Along with the flagrant nimbyism the city showed, we scared off what would have been an internationally recognised iconic building and a first class leisure facility.

The same obstructions have been put in front of the redevelopment of the Marina which again has the potential to be a first class attraction.

We aren't going to get an ice rink, or leisure centre because we've f*cked too many people off.

Look at Worthing, it ran an international architectural competition attracting some top designs and eventually appointed award winning Wilkinson Eyre Architects (yes same architects who got initially knocked back for the Marina development). Their 'Splashpoint' development is now getting awards at the World Architecture Festival, beating off competition from around the world.

In my opinion it's a beautiful building that sits brilliantly off the beach. I can't see something like this being achieved in Brighton which is why we still have the King Alfred.

Our council is run by policy makers and number crunchers. There is no creative vision there, no aspirational agenda. A city built upon the fanciful notion of a royal prince now doesn't know what to do with itself.

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

an indoor arena/leisure centre has, in my opinion, far greater potential for community use AND tourism value. The city is absolutely crying out for good leisure facilities. when you consider that bloody BURGESS HILL has a better swimming pool than us, something is going wrong. An indoor arena can also be used as an indoor concert venue (like the brighton centre, but nicer), an ice rink and can see the re-introduction of basketball/ice hockey teams. This will lead to the brighton centre being pretty much redundant, meaning we can finally get rid of it and replace it with something that looks nice. we have one of the most visited seafronts in the country, and we have that thing ruining it....our seafront can be so much more.

one problem is obviously location....black rock has many advantages, and would hopefully help develop the seafront in between the pier and marina which i find a bit depressing in places. One issue is obviously transport, which I don't really have an answer to

 

[The Large One]

Politically, all parties back the i360 Tower and were prepared for the city to have £15m of risk comes its way.

As I understand it, this is now supposed to be a government loan to the tune of £36m. No-one knows what the full story - yet - of what this new plan is, but Labour and the Tories, understandably, have big concerns. What wouldn't happen is that front-line services are affected.

This isn't a 'Green' folly; this was approved yonks ago. It's just that the Greens are prepared to push ahead with it. To the detriment of the city? While the headline figure looks eye-watering, it's best to wait for the details of the proposal. It could well get voted down anyway.

 

[The Large One]

Many national and international developers have been scared off from Brighton due to a visionless council and a culture of nimbyism.

It takes a huge amount of money and work to get to a planning stage, and unfortunately, we've made it clear we're not an authority that welcomes or encourages quality development.

A progressive council with a vision for their city can attract and encourage investment and quality development through architectural competition, attracting the best planners and architects to produce award winning solutions.

Frank Ghery's first designs for the King Alfred were elegant, and restrained, but it wasn't until the council wouldn't budge on their 25% social housing (despite getting a leisure centre out of it!) and the scheme got diluted, the side buildings became larger, and financially it effectively put the development on a knife edge. Along with the flagrant nimbyism the city showed, we scared off what would have been an internationally recognised iconic building and a first class leisure facility.

The same obstructions have been put in front of the redevelopment of the Marina which again has the potential to be a first class attraction.

We aren't going to get an ice rink, or leisure centre because we've f*cked too many people off.

Look at Worthing, it ran an international architectural competition attracting some top designs and eventually appointed award winning Wilkinson Eyre Architects (yes same architects who got initially knocked back for the Marina development). Their 'Splashpoint' development is now getting awards at the World Architecture Festival, beating off competition from around the world.

In my opinion it's a beautiful building that sits brilliantly off the beach. I can't see something like this being achieved in Brighton which is why we still have the King Alfred.

Our council is run by policy makers and number crunchers. There is no creative vision there, no aspirational agenda. A city built upon the fanciful notion of a royal prince now doesn't know what to do with itself.

There is an awful lot of NIMBYism across the city, and has been for decades - look at how influential the likes of The Regency Society (founded 1945), The Brighton Society (founded 1974), North Laine Community Association and so on are.

Some of it is justifiable - there was a plan to knock down North Laine in the 1970s in order for a flyover to be built, but by-and-large, the default cry from the various societies is 'NO', as if the city was perfect as is.

 

[CheeseRolls]

Many national and international developers have been scared off from Brighton due to a visionless council and a culture of nimbyism.

It takes a huge amount of money and work to get to a planning stage, and unfortunately, we've made it clear we're not an authority that welcomes or encourages quality development.

A progressive council with a vision for their city can attract and encourage investment and quality development through architectural competition, attracting the best planners and architects to produce award winning solutions.

Frank Ghery's first designs for the King Alfred were elegant, and restrained, but it wasn't until the council wouldn't budge on their 25% social housing (despite getting a leisure centre out of it!) and the scheme got diluted, the side buildings became larger, and financially it effectively put the development on a knife edge. Along with the flagrant nimbyism the city showed, we scared off what would have been an internationally recognised iconic building and a first class leisure facility.

The same obstructions have been put in front of the redevelopment of the Marina which again has the potential to be a first class attraction.

We aren't going to get an ice rink, or leisure centre because we've f*cked too many people off.

Look at Worthing, it ran an international architectural competition attracting some top designs and eventually appointed award winning Wilkinson Eyre Architects (yes same architects who got initially knocked back for the Marina development). Their 'Splashpoint' development is now getting awards at the World Architecture Festival, beating off competition from around the world.

In my opinion it's a beautiful building that sits brilliantly off the beach. I can't see something like this being achieved in Brighton which is why we still have the King Alfred.

Our council is run by policy makers and number crunchers. There is no creative vision there, no aspirational agenda. A city built upon the fanciful notion of a royal prince now doesn't know what to do with itself.

Yes I am really not sure who woke Worthing up, but after years of sitting on hands, there is signs of life on the seafront. Brighton by contrast seems to have completely lost it's driving force since Steve Bassam was spirited away to the House of Lords.

Skyscrapers and a sport complex on Hove seafront, would have been magnificent, as would the cinema and shopping complex around Hove station. Still Nimbies know best and a clapped out sports complex and dirty old bus depot are worth preserving for future generations.

 

[wardy wonder land]

It should be remembered that sports facilities in Brighton and Hove attract people from all over Sussex and further afield. You just have to look at the fan base that has always existed for the Albion. A city like Brighton & Hove should provide its citizens with the finest sports and recreational facilities and that includes as a priority the provision of a new ice rink and the re-establishment of the Brighton Tigers ice hockey team. That would benefit the people of the area and bring in revenue from tourists as well. Such a project could and should involve the private sector to assist in financially underpinning the project.

Use public money to "clean" the shoreham cement works site
then have a private & public funded sports arena with ice rink & indoor ski slope

the problem is politics, adur council, B&H council - but best for the people

 

[Gilliver's Travels]

Blackrock by the Marina !

The 40-storey tower being built as part of the 'Marina Renaissance' - construction work began this week - will have an observation platform, from which lucky tourists will be able to look down on the lowly i360.

 

[northernseagull]

The 40-storey tower being built as part of the 'Marina Renaissance' - construction work began this week - will have an observation platform, from which lucky tourists will be able to look down on the lowly i360.

So the marina dev is going ahead then? Some of the plans looked rather impressive. Are they still knocking down Asda?!!

 

[MattBackHome]

The 40-storey tower being built as part of the 'Marina Renaissance' - construction work began this week - will have an observation platform, from which lucky tourists will be able to look down on the lowly i360.

Is this it?

View attachment 50427

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/pictu...&selfidi=347BrightonMarinaTower_pic1.jpg&no=1

 

[Superphil]

Use public money to "clean" the shoreham cement works site
then have a private & public funded sports arena with ice rink & indoor ski slope

the problem is politics, adur council, B&H council - but best for the people

And now the laughable South Downs National Park

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

an indoor arena/leisure centre has, in my opinion, far greater potential for community use AND tourism value. The city is absolutely crying out for good leisure facilities. when you consider that bloody BURGESS HILL has a better swimming pool than us, something is going wrong. An indoor arena can also be used as an indoor concert venue (like the brighton centre, but nicer), an ice rink and can see the re-introduction of basketball/ice hockey teams. This will lead to the brighton centre being pretty much redundant, meaning we can finally get rid of it and replace it with something that looks nice. we have one of the most visited seafronts in the country, and we have that thing ruining it....our seafront can be so much more.

one problem is obviously location....black rock has many advantages, and would hopefully help develop the seafront in between the pier and marina which i find a bit depressing in places. One issue is obviously transport, which I don't really have an answer to

This.

I thought that the plan was when an indoor arena/ice rink is built at Black Rock this could then be used for conferences whilst the Brighton Centre is rebuilt. A modern conference centre would attract far more money than the i360.

Once a new Brighton Centre is built you'd have this bringing in money alongside the indoor arena at Black Rock.

This is still on the council's website:

http://www.brighton-hove.gov.uk/content/planning/major-developments/black-rock-proposal

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Politically, all parties back the i360 Tower and were prepared for the city to have £15m of risk comes its way.

As I understand it, this is now supposed to be a government loan to the tune of £36m. No-one knows what the full story - yet - of what this new plan is, but Labour and the Tories, understandably, have big concerns. What wouldn't happen is that front-line services are affected.

This isn't a 'Green' folly; this was approved yonks ago. It's just that the Greens are prepared to push ahead with it. To the detriment of the city? While the headline figure looks eye-watering, it's best to wait for the details of the proposal. It could well get voted down anyway.

My concern is if the council are acting as guarantors on the loan ( regardless of whether it's £15m or £36m ) - that would mean taxpayers paying the loan if the enterprise crashed. None of the three parties have made what the real situation would be clear. In principle, if there's no risk to tax payers money, I have no issue with the i360 ( other than the crap Apple like name ).

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

I see that B&H council are preparing to throw £36 million at the i360 (the tall pole with a viewing platform).

No private funding could be found for this as it doesn't stack up financially. All the estimates have been based on it being 100% full all the time which of course will not happen.

Would this public money surely not be better spent on a decent leisure centre with proper ice rink etc?

The King Alfred centre has been a disgrace for years and a city of this size needs something decent for its citizens to go to.

Look at Guildfords leisure centre http://www.guildfordspectrum.co.uk/index.php

Something along these lines would be better, or would it?

Thoughts?

Agreed. A new indoor arena/ice rink at Black Rock.

 

[The Large One]

My concern is if the council are acting as guarantors on the loan ( regardless of whether it's £15m or £36m ) - that would mean taxpayers paying the loan if the enterprise crashed. None of the three parties have made what the real situation would be clear. In principle, if there's no risk to tax payers money, I have no issue with the i360 ( other than the crap Apple like name ).

I think that's the central concern for everyone.

Of course, we only get to see the headline detail spoonfed to us by the local rag. You'd normally be able find more detail online - as I'm sure will be the case once it's been discussed in council. This new proposal still might be worthwhile. Or it might not.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Robin Cousins has been looking to put an Ice Rink in Brighton for years.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Frank Ghery's first designs for the King Alfred were elegant, and restrained, but it wasn't until the council wouldn't budge on their 25% social housing (despite getting a leisure centre out of it!) and the scheme got diluted, the side buildings became larger, and financially it effectively put the development on a knife edge. Along with the flagrant nimbyism the city showed, we scared off what would have been an internationally recognised iconic building and a first class leisure facility.

Totally agree, what a criminally short-sighted decision that was.

IMHO the i360 would no more attract visitors to Brighton & Hove than the Spinnaker Tower attracts visitors to Pompey. Visitors visit towns for the bigger picture, the i360 would just be a sideshow, same as the Brighton Eye.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Frank Ghery's first designs for the King Alfred were elegant, and restrained, but it wasn't until the council wouldn't budge on their 25% social housing (despite getting a leisure centre out of it!) and the scheme got diluted, the side buildings became larger, and financially it effectively put the development on a knife edge. Along with the flagrant nimbyism the city showed, we scared off what would have been an internationally recognised iconic building and a first class leisure facility.

I'm not usually one to defend any council but I thought the 25% social housing requirement was a government rule ? Regardless, the rumours of under the table deals being done between the developers and some councillors probably helped kill the deal as much as the social housing and nimbies.

 

[The Large One]

Use public money to "clean" the shoreham cement works site
then have a private & public funded sports arena with ice rink & indoor ski slope

the problem is politics, adur council, B&H council - but best for the people

Actually, Shoreham Cement Works aren't anything to do with Adur District Council, and certainly not Brighton & Hove City Council.

The planning authorities are Horsham District Council and the South Downs National Park Authority.

 

[bhachris]

Black Rock or the King Alfred would be an excellent choice for a new leisure centre, one that would bring in people from all over Sussex bringing many £££.

Unfortunately these visitors that bring many £££ would need to drive and that is not feasible due to the Councils short sightedness and obsession with making it difficult or near impossible to drive in our city. We simply do not welcome or encourage visitors anymore and this can only have a long term negative effect on our city.

The i360 IMO is a waste, will never make money and will probably be taken down within 10 years because of the deficit it will be running.

 

[ditchy]

Like I said, transport and nimbys. The Regency Society or whatever thay're called would be vehermently against it, as for transport, how would that work? It's miles from the station, car parking would inflame the council, don't think the Vokes could cope.

Marina , has a Carpark big enough and they did look at putting a 6000 capacity indoor rink on that site before .