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[Albion] A myriad of issues: Structure? Manager? Players? Inexperience? A 52-year supporter's view

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Guinness Boy

“Self appointed racist finder general”
All-powerful Moderator
Jul 23, 2003
28,843
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
The club must despair with posts like the op’s.
Afterall this is arguably the most successful era in the club’s history.

I'm sure they do.

However, we are merely repeating the early 80s less successfully to date. Mike Bailey got us to 13th in the top division and Melia took us to a Cup Final. If we can finish higher than that or even stay up just one more season then you have a good point.
 


DJ NOBO

Members
Jul 18, 2004
5,548
Wiltshire
I'm sure they do.

However, we are merely repeating the early 80s less successfully to date. Mike Bailey got us to 13th in the top division and Melia took us to a Cup Final. If we can finish higher than that or even stay up just one more season then you have a good point.

I dunno. Biggest crowds we’ve ever had, we’ve already matched our previous-longest stay in the top flight, god knows how many international players on our books, a training ground that may be the envy of much bigger clubs, same with the stadium . Different eras, but we are doing ok, and the structure is in place for us to do better, which may not have been the case last time.
It’s not to say all is perfect - we have been a frustrating watch this season. But the original post went way too far in my view. I speak as someone who grew up watching Danny Simmonds and Stuart Myall not looking very good.
 
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Guinness Boy

“Self appointed racist finder general”
All-powerful Moderator
Jul 23, 2003
28,843
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
I dunno. Biggest crowds we’ve ever had, we’ve already matched our previous-longest stay in the top flight, god knows how many international players on our books, a training ground that may be the envy of much bigger clubs, same with the stadium . Different eras, but we are doing ok, and the structure is in place for us to do better. I don’t think I made a terrible point.

To be fair you didn't, and everything above is true. However, I'm talking about results, league positions and trophies. We've emulated going up but not as champions from "Division 2", got to a FA Cup semi but not a FA Cup final and not yet come close to 13th.

We're not training among the dogshit of Hove Park to be sure, our infrastructure is 1000 times better but, again, actual table position is tracking the same or below.
 

DJ NOBO

Members
Jul 18, 2004
5,548
Wiltshire
To be fair you didn't, and everything above is true. However, I'm talking about results, league positions and trophies. We've emulated going up but not as champions from "Division 2", got to a FA Cup semi but not a FA Cup final and not yet come close to 13th.

We're not training among the dogshit of Hove Park to be sure, our infrastructure is 1000 times better but, again, actual table position is tracking the same or below.

Yeah. I edited my post before you replied, as I temporarily forgot how many times I’ve shouted at the telly watching us this season.
And I did think this season would be the Breakthrough season. I’m now pretty sure it won’t be.
But when it comes to overall health of the club, I stand by saying the OP is way off. NOt that I could be arsed to read his entire essay in detail.
I also do believe this will become unquestionably our best ever era if Bloom stays interested. With or without the current manager,
 

Weststander

Members
Aug 25, 2011
54,047
Withdean area
I dunno. Biggest crowds we’ve ever had, we’ve already matched our previous-longest stay in the top flight, god knows how many international players on our books, a training ground that may be the envy of much bigger clubs, same with the stadium . Different eras, but we are doing ok, and the structure is in place for us to do better, which may not have been the case last time.
It’s not to say all is perfect - we have been a frustrating watch this season. But the original post went way too far in my view. I speak as someone who grew up watching Danny Simmonds and Stuart Myall not looking very good.

The infrastructure, academy, owner, board and finances are all fantastic.

We just need a team that can win with some regularity now.
 

Sirnormangall

Members
Sep 21, 2017
2,353
I find it hard to disagree with much of what the OP says. But I feel it also needs to be set in the context of where we’ve come from. Even though we’ve been at the Amex a few years now, every time I go there I still wonder how we got there from the Gillingham and Withdean days and the long drawn out death of the goldstone. Like all of us I want the current team to improve and succeed, but I’m also just thankful that I’m watching probably the best Albion team I’ve ever seen ( in 57 seasons).
 

Swansman

Pro-peace
May 13, 2019
21,363
Sweden
Thanks for those who have posted a reply, whether positive or negative.
These weren't my thoughts (as I tried to make clear in the opening post) but were those of my father, who does not have an account.

ATB
TSB

I call bullshit.
 


vagabond

Members
May 17, 2019
9,804
Brighton
I think you need to re-set your traditional ‘home games’ expectations under Potter (which is easy enough as you’re not there paying money to see goals). Teams like Burnley and Newcastle will come to the Amex for a draw, with the amount of defensive players these teams keep deep, you need a slice of luck (including a mistake from the bus parking team) or a world class move to break these teams down. Our best opportunities for points are going to be away (with the exception of who Palace sat back like they were playing Barcelona) against teams outside the top six who are setting up to win the game. I believe that there will be many more victories like the one at St James park. Man Utd were not defensive against us and we were a an inch or two (plus a dodgy VAR overturn) away from scoring 8 EIGHT.

I think we’ll get at least 10 points in December, the results are coming.


[emoji122][emoji122][emoji122][emoji122]
 
May 2, 2020
584
Palookaville
I dunno. Biggest crowds we’ve ever had, we’ve already matched our previous-longest stay in the top flight, god knows how many international players on our books, a training ground that may be the envy of much bigger clubs, same with the stadium . Different eras, but we are doing ok, and the structure is in place for us to do better, which may not have been the case last time.
It’s not to say all is perfect - we have been a frustrating watch this season. But the original post went way too far in my view. I speak as someone who grew up watching Danny Simmonds and Stuart Myall not looking very good.

The club is in a far better position off the field, with proper financial planning - ie no ten-year contracts - and superb infrastructure.

But one worrying sign is that more and more rivals in the Premier League and Championship are being bought up by wealthier owners. Big bids for Derby and Burnley, whether they come off or not, suggest that it is only a matter of time before we can't compete for a place in the top division unless TB sells up. And I don't think we really want that.
 

Cowfold Seagull

Fan of the 17 bus
Apr 22, 2009
19,313
Cowfold
Results aside, Potters's free-flowing football has been a refreshing change from before when we attempted to win by boring the other team to death.

As for results, the last 17 league games of Hughton's reign brought 10 points out of a possible 51.

Played 17, Won 2, Drew 4, Lost 11, Goals For 11, Goals Against 31.

Sacking CH was right.

Maybe it was time for Chris to step aside, but only if he was replaced by the right person! With his only short period of success coming from a spell in Swedish football, followed by one moderately iencouraging season in the Championship, l don't think that Graham Potter is that person.

You use the expression 'results aside' when it comes to Potter's erstwhile Albion record, well at the end of the day aren't results the one thing that really matters the most!
 

hart's shirt

Members
Jul 8, 2003
8,548
Kitbag in Dubai
You use the expression 'results aside' when it comes to Potter's erstwhile Albion record, well at the end of the day aren't results the one thing that really matters the most!

Sorry for any confusion here, CS. I agree with you that results are the thing that matter most.

The reason I used 'results aside' was that the style of play is also important to many supporters, myself included.

My point was that away from results, the style of football was dour, defensive and unattractive to watch.

Plenty of managers have been sacked for providing entertaining football, but not getting the results.

Equally, many managers have stayed for grinding out results with substance over style.

In that 2nd half of the season, Hughton wasn't performing on either of those 2 fronts. Boring football resulted in 2 wins in 17 league games.

We can disagree regarding GP - I'm definitely pro-Potter nuanced with concerns over forward play and set-pieces - but Hughton's time was clearly up.
 

big nuts

Members
Jan 15, 2011
4,776
Hove
Maybe it was time for Chris to step aside, but only if he was replaced by the right person! With his only short period of success coming from a spell in Swedish football, followed by one moderately iencouraging season in the Championship, l don't think that Graham Potter is that person.

You use the expression 'results aside' when it comes to Potter's erstwhile Albion record, well at the end of the day aren't results the one thing that really matters the most!

Highest Premier League points tally last season and more importantly he’s brought the average age down considerably.

It was a matter of time before we were relegated under Hughton with that squad. My guess is we would have finished 19th last season and a fair way from being safe. We were stinking the league out at the end of his spell.
 

drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
21,693
Burgess Hill
To be fair you didn't, and everything above is true. However, I'm talking about results, league positions and trophies. We've emulated going up but not as champions from "Division 2", got to a FA Cup semi but not a FA Cup final and not yet come close to 13th.

We're not training among the dogshit of Hove Park to be sure, our infrastructure is 1000 times better but, again, actual table position is tracking the same or below.

Not sure if I'm reading this right but we did match what we did in 79, ie we went up in 2nd place.
 

drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
21,693
Burgess Hill
Maybe it was time for Chris to step aside, but only if he was replaced by the right person! With his only short period of success coming from a spell in Swedish football, followed by one moderately iencouraging season in the Championship, l don't think that Graham Potter is that person.

You use the expression 'results aside' when it comes to Potter's erstwhile Albion record, well at the end of the day aren't results the one thing that really matters the most!

Results are important but it is also how you achieve those, ask Mike Bailey!!

As someone who has watched over 90% of our premier league matches, I'd rather see us not achieve under Potter than not achieve under Hughton. He had two great years in the Championship and deserved his chance in the EPL. However, we were lucky to stay up (although not as lucky as Villa were last season) and the writing was on the wall for this season if nothing was done. In my view, there was no 'maybe' about it. In fact I was critical of Hughton early in the season when we play Spurs at home. His approach to that game told me all I need to know.

Finally, you make reference to him being replaced by the right person. Exactly who is that?
 


southstandandy

WEST STAND ANDY
Jul 9, 2003
4,920
Just caught up with this thread.

Blimey. It's only a game for gawd's sake! None of us want to see us struggle but that is the life of being a football fan.

If you'd said to me 25 years ago when we nearly didn't have a club and a 2 year ground share with Gillingham was just around the cormer, that a little over 20 years later we'd be a Premier League Club with the facilities & Stadium we have I'd have laughed you out of the room.

It is great reading different people's perspectives on all matters Albion (which is why most of us are on here anyway) and I hear the OP's views have been clearly considered, but for me the whole football journey is just that - a journey. If we do get relegated this season the vast majority of us will be back supporting the team to push us on again and I am a firm believer in learning from your mistakes. Being an Albion fan is very much like being on a roller coaster with it's ups and it's downs but I will never lose perspective that there are more important things in life to get worked up about.

Enjoy the journey and the improvement in our performances and I'm sure the results will eventually turn - after all we are only 8 games in. And breathe......
 

Guinness Boy

“Self appointed racist finder general”
All-powerful Moderator
Jul 23, 2003
28,843
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
Not sure if I'm reading this right but we did match what we did in 79, ie we went up in 2nd place.

Yes that's what emulated means.

From 2017 we've only equalled or done worse than 79-83. If we stay up this season we'll have done better. If we finish 12th or win a trophy, even better than that.

Our success under Bloom has been in terms of facilities, long term development and player loans and all that is good, but in terms of results it is not the most successful period in our history. Not yet.
 

macbeth

Dismembered
Jan 3, 2018
2,777
six feet beneath the moon...
The club is in a far better position off the field, with proper financial planning - ie no ten-year contracts - and superb infrastructure.

But one worrying sign is that more and more rivals in the Premier League and Championship are being bought up by wealthier owners. Big bids for Derby and Burnley, whether they come off or not, suggest that it is only a matter of time before we can't compete for a place in the top division unless TB sells up. And I don't think we really want that.

ehh I don't know if I agree with that. Having a wealthy owner doesn't guarantee success. For every Wolves, Chelsea, Man City, there's a Wigan, Sheffield Wednesday, Forest, Newcastle, Birmingham City, Everton, Fulham: all clubs bought by very wealthy investors who haven't seen that translate into automatic success. Unless you are as rich as Abramovich or Sheikh Mansour, you need a stable management structure as much as investment, that's what Wolves have done, and it looks like Villa are getting there but it's taken them time. I think there's a lot of other factors that come into play other than just money, and if said billionaires ever get bored of their playthings then they're in real trouble. It's far from cut and dried
 

Wrong-Direction

Members
Mar 10, 2013
12,788
Just caught up with this thread.

Blimey. It's only a game for gawd's sake! None of us want to see us struggle but that is the life of being a football fan.

If you'd said to me 25 years ago when we nearly didn't have a club and a 2 year ground share with Gillingham was just around the cormer, that a little over 20 years later we'd be a Premier League Club with the facilities & Stadium we have I'd have laughed you out of the room.

It is great reading different people's perspectives on all matters Albion (which is why most of us are on here anyway) and I hear the OP's views have been clearly considered, but for me the whole football journey is just that - a journey. If we do get relegated this season the vast majority of us will be back supporting the team to push us on again and I am a firm believer in learning from your mistakes. Being an Albion fan is very much like being on a roller coaster with it's ups and it's downs but I will never lose perspective that there are more important things in life to get worked up about.

Enjoy the journey and the improvement in our performances and I'm sure the results will eventually turn - after all we are only 8 games in. And breathe......
Well said

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk
 

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