3 UK Schoolgirls gone to Syria

[Triggaaar]

I don't agree with free press - I think the press should be regulated so that all things reported are honest, unbiased and do not have corporate interests.

I agree that it would be good if papers did not have such corporate interests, but if they weren't free then who would be in charge of what they say? I sense what you wish for would be a lot worse.

I'm certainly not an apologist

You often come across as one. You regularly blame the west for the actions of the extremists, when they should be held accountable for their own actions.

I am just calling for tolerance, rationality, peace, equality, prosperity.

If that's all you called for you wouldn't get in so many arguments, as that's what most of us want.

I KNOW the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful members of our society who require our support and solidarity more than ever.

I'd think the majority of NSC agrees with that.

 

[symyjym]

Mail Online overtakes NY Times as top online newspaper

Islamic extremists are a such a minority that can easily be overcome by the correct societal attitudes. The Daily Mail however is a propaganda machine that peddles its twisted and hateful views to millions of people - the impact of this should not be underestimated, particularly as it significantly contributes to the increasing social divisions between Muslim and non-Muslim people, which will exacerbate the problem of extremism by marginalising Muslim people.

To be fair it's the small majority of extremists that cause the most destruction, and the father in this case has tried to portray himself as moderate, and 47 years old . It is these so called moderates that support the, as you say "minority extremists".

In this current climate it is the Muslims who marginalise themselves. I can sort of understand the anger with the Blair Bush war as many of us were unhappy about it, but, and there is a massive but, Muslims are slaughtering Muslims as well as other "innocent minorities".

 

[jimbob5]

To be fair it's the small majority of extremists that cause the most destruction, and the father in this case has tried to portray himself as moderate, and 47 years old . It is these so called moderates that support the, as you say "minority extremists".

In this current climate it is the Muslims who marginalise themselves. I can sort of understand the anger with the Blair Bush war as many of us were unhappy about it, but, and there is a massive but, Muslims are slaughtering Muslims as well as other "innocent minorities".

For sure. It's largely tribal. But God help any neutral caught up in it anyway. And yes. Well done Bliar for making things 1000 times worse than they were already.

 

[Megazone]

I got all excited seeing this thread revived.

I was hoping to read that at least one of the three terrorists bitches were dead.

Nice.

 

[cjd]

Nice.

It would have been even 'nicer' if all three of the Muslim terrorists bitches were dead.

 

[Hillian1]

Yes, yes, yes [MENTION=7]Mustafa[/MENTION] , its all our own fault apparently.

Any chance you might go out there and join your brothers and sisters?

I do hope so.

 

[sir albion]

i am not surprised one bit the old man knew what he was doing...Taking us for mugs and he'll be one of many.

 

[The Spanish]

You're a lunatic. All I'm doing is calling for tolerance, mindfulness, rationality, peace - and yet, if I were to take this post literally - you would like me to go fight in a war zone and presumably be killed for it.

One day you lot might get what you want, society will completely reject Muslim people - you may envision as this being a positive thing which will magically end radicalisation of Muslim people and all the violence too, but I see it as being a potentially terrible thing that would severely exacerbate it and make things a whole lot worse in our society as well as in the Middle East.

Try to understand the bigger picture, the narrative. Try to understand why Muslim people become radicalised, what the origin of it all is, what conditions are required for it to occur, and so on... and no, it's a lot more complex than "Islam dunnit"

I can see that I am greatly outnumbered in these threads - people have made their minds up that they hate Muslims and that it's for the best if they encourage others to do the same. However I am confident that you are all a vocal minority, I have faith in the British people that they are better than this.

The tolerance and inclusiveness shown by the british people has been mind boggling. We are being asked to accept we hVe bought this on ourselves, yet any implication the same rules apply the other way are swiftly leapt upon as unfair and victimisation. blame those attempting to drive a wedge between us (not newspapers, put people who set people alight), blame the parents of radicalised kids, who chose to come to Britain. Blame tony Blair. Do not ask another thing of the insanely tolerant british public.

 

[spence]

I agree with you - I'm sure we all understand that it is not the British public who are responsible for this state of affairs, but it is Western governments that have everything to answer for. The way they have approached foreign affairs in the Middle East has been catastrophic.

I can only reiterate that we should have absolute faith in the British public to remain tolerant and mindful with our fellow Muslim citizens, as we ultimately overcome this terrible wave of terrorism. I do not consider the hate-filled readership of the Daily Mail or the familiar intolerant Islamophobes that frequent these kinds of threads to be any way representative of the British public - they are unfortunate exceptions, we just need to be aware that they shout the loudest in attempt to spread their hate and intolerance and they should be ignored.

We all should know that a vast majority of Muslims are peaceful and oppose extremism as much as any other civilised person, regardless of how much the Daily Mail relentlessly make examples of the few individuals who don't. This is why I have confidence that Britain will be absolutely fine, as long as we continue to support tolerance in Britain and peace in the Middle East.

There you go again blaming western governments. You are tiresome and predictable.

 

[beorhthelm]

I don't agree with free press - I think the press should be regulated so that all things reported are honest, unbiased and do not have corporate interests.

so your advocating regulating a free press to say what you want it to say, not others breathtaking condradiction and frankly stupid.

as for the state of mulsim faith in this country, of course the vast majority are not interested in the extremism. but a few are. and all too many are sheltering them in the community, giving them licence to preach. fact is Islam has a disease within it, where sects preach domination and puritanical observation of a faith, erasing the non-believer. while you and the those that are in denial about this continue to give them leeway and pretend "its all the wests fault", the suffering and intolerance will contiune. the muslim world needs to clense itself, have an Enlightenment movement and grow up.

 

[carlzeiss]

It would have been even 'nicer' if all three of the Muslim terrorists bitches were dead.

The more the merrier .

 

[Nibble]

I agree with you - I'm sure we all understand that it is not the British public who are responsible for this state of affairs, but it is Western governments that have everything to answer for. The way they have approached foreign affairs in the Middle East has been catastrophic.

I can only reiterate that we should have absolute faith in the British public to remain tolerant and mindful with our fellow Muslim citizens, as we ultimately overcome this terrible wave of terrorism. I do not consider the hate-filled readership of the Daily Mail or the familiar intolerant Islamophobes that frequent these kinds of threads to be any way representative of the British public - they are unfortunate exceptions, we just need to be aware that they shout the loudest in attempt to spread their hate and intolerance and they should be ignored.

We all should know that a vast majority of Muslims are peaceful and oppose extremism as much as any other civilised person, regardless of how much the Daily Mail relentlessly make examples of the few individuals who don't. This is why I have confidence that Britain will be absolutely fine, as long as we continue to support tolerance in Britain and peace in the Middle East.

Gobbledeegook. Most people have no problem with normal Muslims. It's the extremists people have an issue with.
But that's other people. Personally I think they're all *****.

 

[The Spanish]

I agree with you - I'm sure we all understand that it is not the British public who are responsible for this state of affairs, but it is Western governments that have everything to answer for. The way they have approached foreign affairs in the Middle East has been catastrophic.

I can only reiterate that we should have absolute faith in the British public to remain tolerant and mindful with our fellow Muslim citizens, as we ultimately overcome this terrible wave of terrorism. I do not consider the hate-filled readership of the Daily Mail or the familiar intolerant Islamophobes that frequent these kinds of threads to be any way representative of the British public - they are unfortunate exceptions, we just need to be aware that they shout the loudest in attempt to spread their hate and intolerance and they should be ignored.

We all should know that a vast majority of Muslims are peaceful and oppose extremism as much as any other civilised person, regardless of how much the Daily Mail relentlessly make examples of the few individuals who don't. This is why I have confidence that Britain will be absolutely fine, as long as we continue to support tolerance in Britain and peace in the Middle East.

I disagree with you. You are all over the place on this.

 

[BadFish]

so your advocating regulating a free press to say what you want it to say, not others breathtaking condradiction and frankly stupid.

as for the state of mulsim faith in this country, of course the vast majority are not interested in the extremism. but a few are. and all too many are sheltering them in the community, giving them licence to preach. fact is Islam has a disease within it, where sects preach domination and puritanical observation of a faith, erasing the non-believer. while you and the those that are in denial about this continue to give them leeway and pretend "its all the wests fault", the suffering and intolerance will contiune. the muslim world needs to clense itself, have an Enlightenment movement and grow up.

You are choosing to see Islam as one thing. Evil does but run through a huge group of people it is in heard of individuals. To condemn a whole religion for the individuals that use it for their own ends is illogical and frankly stupid.

So many on here claim to make the distinctions between extreme Islam and normal peaceful Muslims. Yet when push comes to shove they happily blame them blame all. Of course when pulled up they revert back to safe ground but their rhetoric gives them away. As nibbles rather eloquent post suggests.

I agree with Mustafa, if we decide to ignore what has created this state of affairs then we have no chance of making any progress. All we will end up with is the fight that the extremists are after.

 

[BadFish]

There you go again blaming western governments. You are tiresome and predictable.

So what do you think is to blame?

 

[beorhthelm]

You are choosing to see Islam as one thing. Evil does but run through a huge group of people it is in heard of individuals. To condemn a whole religion for the individuals that use it for their own ends is illogical and frankly stupid.

im not condemning a religion, i am seperating the different individuals, groups and sects that run through it. im higlighting that that some groups provide cover for others. time after time we see how a good upstanding young man (or here women) are corrupted by the firebrand preachers. that doesn happen in isolation, those people are being introduced through the wider community.

i am condemning Mustafa for A being an arsehat and B not accepting reality and seeking to divert the source of the problem onto "the west". the puritan forms exist within islam in their own right, they've been fighting over interpretation since the beginning of their religion (as all seem to). ISIL ideology doesnt need "the west" to create a boogey man, witness how they destroy all other cultures they contact. the space has been left vacant for ISIL to fill by us interfering with one dictator and allowing a nation to rise up against another (damned if you do, damned if you dont), but the ideals and the cause werent created because of those events.

 

[BadFish]

im not condemning a religion, i am seperating the different individuals, groups and sects that run through it. im higlighting that that some groups provide cover for others. time after time we see how a good upstanding young man (or here women) are corrupted by the firebrand preachers. that doesn happen in isolation, those people are being introduced through the wider community.

i am condemning Mustafa for A being an arsehat and B not accepting reality and seeking to divert the source of the problem onto "the west". the puritan forms exist within islam in their own right, they've been fighting over interpretation since the beginning of their religion (as all seem to). ISIL ideology doesnt need "the west" to create a boogey man, witness how they destroy all other cultures they contact. the space has been left vacant for ISIL to fill by us interfering with one dictator and allowing a nation to rise up against another (damned if you do, damned if you dont), but the ideals and the cause werent created because of those events.

I don't think Mustafa needs to accept your reality here, maybe you could meet half way. I think you are over simplifying the problems into just an ideological one.If you look at Islam historically it could easily be argued that Islam has been viewed with suspicion and contempt since its conception. I would argue that it is time to move on from such backward theology and start to look at the individuals who use the religion to further their own beliefs. I think that the example of ISIL is a good one and if half of the things that Wikileaks et al say about the relationship between them and the USA are true then Mustafa is highly vindicated in his suggestions. If you look at Islam historically it could easily be argued that Islam has been viewed with suspicion and contempt since its conception.

i think you need to ask yourself the question. What makes it so easy for those preying on good upstanding young men and women to convert them to their cause. Perhaps you can link some of that to the millions of innocent Iraqis that were killed during an illegal war perpetuated by the US and its backers.

I suspect that the answer is somewhere in the grey are between the the black and white of yours and Mustafas argument. Simply nothing is that simple. The US and its followers are undoubtedly (IMHO) part of the reason for the rise in terrorism (lets not forget that the 911 bombing they are so pleased to hark back to was about US military on sacred land across the middle east (this was the reason Bin Laden gave for the attacks)). ISIL has grown in the vaccum left by the US involvement in the middle east and their inability to finish the job that they started (illeagall). There are plenty of other links between the US and terrorism which really are too numerous to mention.

The point is that if you ignore what we have done and pass the blame solely on the shoulders of a religion then you leave your self nowhere to go save attacking that religion. If you accept that there are things that we (more accurately our governments) have done and continue to do then we can begin to look at what we can change to improve the situation.

This study is quite interesting regarding some of these issues. (i haven't finished reading it yet but have to go out)

http://eujournal.org/index.php/esj/article/viewFile/3206/2993

 

[pastafarian]

The tragedy is that Muslim countries were moving forward - even Iraq. Syria, Egypt and Libya were all progressive secular nations - and now look at them.

If people can't see the blindingly obvious link between the rise in Islamic extremism and violence in the Middle East since 2003, then God help us all.

Its interesting you continue to push the blame onto The West for all the current problems in the region. Nearly everyone agrees The West is in part guilty with its foreign policy but so is Egypt, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Libya, Israel, Turkey, Saudi, Yemen, Russia, Lebanon, and everyone else who has dipped their toe with their own agenda led foreign policy into the region over the years. And then you have the major player, a religion which is so stuck in the stone age that it not only permits but actively promotes violence from the followers that would seek out the extremities of its dogma.
When you have all these players in what is now a perfect shitstorm dont forget to apportion blame to ALL where it is due rather that simply denounce one section of society, ie The West,and predominantly blame them simply because you personally dislike it.
Perhaps, considering your endless preaching about how the west should take the lions share of the blame and considering all the varied opinions people hold on NSC you should ask yourself the question , as you have said yourself, as to why you are always firmly in the minority here on this issue.

 

[pastafarian]

I I do not consider the hate-filled familiar intolerant Islamophobes that frequent these kinds of threads to be any way representative of the British public - they are unfortunate exceptions, we just need to be aware that they shout the loudest in attempt to spread their hate and intolerance and they should be ignored.
.

Can you name any Islamophobes in here? ........no i didnt think so

 

[Westdene Seagull]

So what do you think is to blame?

A mis-guided, twisted and extreme interpretation of the Koran.