[Albion] 10-game ban and 50-loyalty point deduction

[Horses Arse]

Here is my story.
Myself and my eldest son are in the top tier for Loyalty points and after a lot of faffing about decided to do Wolves away and bought our tickets when they were on sale to all Albion Plus Members.
My son lives in Sutton so because of the train strike on the day he couldn't get to Wolves so I gave his ticket to his younger brother who is an Albion Plus member and lives near to me now.
We drove up to the game from Salisbury and got asked for ID which my lad produced and if course the names didn't match up.
My eldest got an email from the club 2 weeks later telling him that he has a ten game ban and deduction of points.
I immediately emailed the club saying explaining the above situation and saying if they check my purchase date they would see it wasn't a case of harvesting points and gave them all our fan numbers and it was me that gave the ticket to my son and not him as I had bought them both.
I had no reply until last week telling me that as I had been honest and was willing to take the blame and had in no way defaced the ticket they would reduce the ban to 5 home games for me and deduct 50 points from me.
I understand the 50 point deduction and have no qualms about that but for giving a ticket to a family member who is an Albion Plus member and also not purchasing the tickets until they were on sale to Albion Plus Members and getting a 5 game ban for that really gets my goat.
It seems the club are quite happy for you to waste money on tickets that can't be used but not happy for you to use them for family members who pay £20.00 a season for this purpose.
Yet they are quite happy to let visiting fans sit amongst the home fans at The Amex.
Greed is good and it seems this is the norm now for Brighton
My love for this club is being rapidly eroded sadly after 45 years of tramping all around the country watching us.

Shocking but unsurprising I'm afraid. Paul Barber all over that, always right, never sees beyond him being proved right by himself. Shocking. It's not just him though, it is the club from top to bottom, the brand. They do so much right but treat their hard core supporters like addicts at times. All too happy flashing their knickers at the fly-by-night fans of the Premier league product though.

The only conceivable response to your situation was acceptance, understanding and removal of any punishment.

It's horrible. The price of success, urrgghhh

 

[Deadly Danson]

Yep, insanity has taken over. Totally out of proportion punishment where actually a punishment of any sort isn't warranted anyway. I generally like to do things properly but this sledgehammer approach is going to piss off a lot of long term, loyal fans. Such a shame. My fellow season ticket holder at the last moment couldn't come to the Villa game due to illness. In the old days I'd have just called around to see if anyone wanted to join me but with the convoluted rules and the risk of doing something wrong the seat just remained empty. If the club is absolutely insistent on knowing exactly who is sitting in a seat home or away then they HAVE to make the process for transferring a ticket quick, simple and efficient BEFORE they start banning fans.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Yep, insanity has taken over. Totally out of proportion punishment where actually a punishment of any sort isn't warranted anyway. I generally like to do things properly but this sledgehammer approach is going to piss off a lot of long term, loyal fans. Such a shame. My fellow season ticket holder at the last moment couldn't come to the Villa game due to illness. In the old days I'd have just called around to see if anyone wanted to join me but with the convoluted rules and the risk of doing something wrong the seat just remained empty. If the club is absolutely insistent on knowing exactly who is sitting in a seat home or away then they HAVE to make the process for transferring a ticket quick, simple and efficient BEFORE they start banning fans.

Totally agree, putting a simple system, evolution of the home transfer process, to swap a ticket over to someone in your existing f & f with the same loyalty bracket can't be beyond the wit of man/women/they.

 

[Bozza]

Here is my story.
Myself and my eldest son are in the top tier for Loyalty points and after a lot of faffing about decided to do Wolves away and bought our tickets when they were on sale to all Albion Plus Members.
My son lives in Sutton so because of the train strike on the day he couldn't get to Wolves so I gave his ticket to his younger brother who is an Albion Plus member and lives near to me now.
We drove up to the game from Salisbury and got asked for ID which my lad produced and if course the names didn't match up.
My eldest got an email from the club 2 weeks later telling him that he has a ten game ban and deduction of points.
I immediately emailed the club saying explaining the above situation and saying if they check my purchase date they would see it wasn't a case of harvesting points and gave them all our fan numbers and it was me that gave the ticket to my son and not him as I had bought them both.
I had no reply until last week telling me that as I had been honest and was willing to take the blame and had in no way defaced the ticket they would reduce the ban to 5 home games for me and deduct 50 points from me.
I understand the 50 point deduction and have no qualms about that but for giving a ticket to a family member who is an Albion Plus member and also not purchasing the tickets until they were on sale to Albion Plus Members and getting a 5 game ban for that really gets my goat.
It seems the club are quite happy for you to waste money on tickets that can't be used but not happy for you to use them for family members who pay £20.00 a season for this purpose.
Yet they are quite happy to let visiting fans sit amongst the home fans at The Amex.
Greed is good and it seems this is the norm now for Brighton
My love for this club is being rapidly eroded sadly after 45 years of tramping all around the country watching us.

Whilst what you have done has broken the letter of the "law" the club have put in place, and for good reason, you clearly have not broken the spirit of it based on your version of events...

- Anyone could buy tickets for this game, so no other fans were disadvantaged, nor did anyone who wished to attend miss out.
- The person using the ticket had eligibility to attend the game themselves, so no queue-jumping took place.
- The travel situation that day meant many fans who held tickets for the game were unable to travel - I know of several myself.

As such, the punishment seems to far exceed the (supposed) crime. It would feel far more appropriate here for a stern word and a slap on the wrist at the very worst.

When people are queue-jumping and/or attending a game they did not have eligibility for then follow through with the full punishment - everyone has been warned.

This strikes me as the sort of thing the Fan Advisory Board should be heavily involved with on behalf of us all.

 

[Horses Arse]

I've got colleagues coming over from Canada who I've previously taken to games (via purchasing additional home tickets legitimately Paul/Chailey) , we've a meeting in Westminster in the afternoon of the game. They're well up for going to the game but the only way I can get tickets is by using others with purchase history, which will then result in a ten game ban and 50 point deduction, which would impact my youngest son who'd be similarly affected as he's too young to go on his own

Absolutely ridiculous application of a rule that we are supposed to believe is all about fair allocation of away tickets. Mindless bullying. Seems to be only about dragging more cash in as far as I can see.

You know what? With the close monitoring of this site and posts such as this by the club I would expect a mail advising that the offer of a reduced punishment is withdrawn and the original punishment increased as a result of sharing the outcome of the appeal. That's how far my faith in the commercial management of this club has fallen.

I'm sorry Chailey, but this is unforgivable, inexplicable

 

[Deadly Danson]

Honestly the more I think about this the angrier I'm getting. I do find PB to be fair minded as a rule so I hope he has a rethink on this punishment sharpish.

 

[Bozza]

Neither of these (bold emphasis mine) took place for the Wolves fixture:

It has come to our attention this season that away tickets are increasingly being passed on to other supporters who are ineligible to purchase. This results in supporters who are not attending games gaining loyalty points and legitimate attendees being blocked from buying.​

​

Important update regarding away tickets

A reminder to supporters on the rules around the purchase of away tickets.

www.brightonandhovealbion.com

 

[chaileyjem]

I've got colleagues coming over from Canada who I've previously taken to games (via purchasing additional home tickets legitimately Paul/Chailey) , we've a meeting in Westminster in the afternoon of the game. They're well up for going to the game but the only way I can get tickets is by using others with purchase history, which will then result in a ten game ban and 50 point deduction, which would impact my youngest son who'd be similarly affected as he's too young to go on his own

Absolutely ridiculous application of a rule that we are supposed to believe is all about fair allocation of away tickets. Mindless bullying. Seems to be only about dragging more cash in as far as I can see.

You know what? With the close monitoring of this site and posts such as this by the club I would expect a mail advising that the offer of a reduced punishment is withdrawn and the original punishment increased as a result of sharing the outcome of the appeal. That's how far my faith in the commercial management of this club has fallen.

I'm sorry Chailey, but this is unforgivable, inexplicable

I don't know what the game is you're talking about here - Charlton (A) ? . Its sold out or about to be sold out. So fair enough that the club have prioritised it to fans who have attended before rather than general sale. But agreed its frustrating. As for Wolves example - and the 10 match / then 5 match ban then i absolutely agree with @Bozza and have every sympathy for @Nicks . The punishment really doesn't fit the crime given that the ticket was bought in good faith, there was no harvesting of points, train strike and it didn't prevent others from attending. I hope the club would reconsider and NSC lobbys them to come up with a fairer, more appropriate sanction via the FAB or other means. They've got it wrong.

 

[Bozza]

I don't know what the game is you're talking about here - Charlton (A) ? . Its sold out or about to be sold out. So fair enough that the club have prioritised it to fans who have attended before rather than general sale. But agreed its frustrating. As for Wolves example - and the 10 match / then 5 match ban then i absolutely agree with @Bozza and have every sympathy for @Nicks . The punishment really doesn't fit the crime given that the ticket was bought in good faith, there was no harvesting of points, train strike and it didn't prevent others from attending. I hope the club would reconsider and NSC lobbys them to come up with a fairer, more appropriate sanction via the FAB or other means. They've got it wrong.

Technically there is harvesting of points here...

Son A is in the top tier.
Son A buys the ticket.
Son A accrues points.
Son B goes to the game instead.
Son A retains/strengthens his position in the top tier despite not going to the game.

Decision-makers / appeals panel at the club could well be thinking "Just how often has Son A bought a ticket and given it to Son B?"

However, this is easily remedied without imposing this overly-draconian punishment...

1. Remove the points from Son A - he didn't go to the game.
2. Put Dad and Son A on the "collect ticket from the away ground" list for every fixture they buy tickets for, thereby ensuring Son A is using the ticket he has bought and earned points for.

 

[Originunknown]

Here is the email I received from the club and the people I have to thank for my reduction to a 5 game home ban !!


Thank you for your email appealing the sanction against your son for passing on his Wolves ticket.



A panel made up of Adrian Morris (Head of Safety & Security), Andrew Kundert (Security Manager), Sarah Gould (Supporter Services Manager) and Millie Crowhurst (Assistant Supporter Services Manager) met to discuss your appeal.



The decision in this instance was that the loyalty point deduction of 50 points would remain, but the home league game ban would reduce to 5 matches. This decision has been made due to the honesty, the reasons for not being able to attend and the fact that the ticket was not defaced or the name forged in any way.



Please could you confirm in writing that you are prepared to take this sanction on in place of your son ? If you do this we will transfer the sanction over to you and reactivate James’ ticket.



You are reminded that during this time any blocked season ticket seat may be listed on the ticket exchange for resale. You are advised to contact the club after the exclusion period has been served and the ticket will be unblocked.



Regards


Jenny Gower

Head of Ticketing & Supporter Services
Brighton & Hove Albion

Can you confirm that you had the tickets in hand and your Id was checked at the turnstyles rather than being asked to collect the tickets?

 

[drew]

The club needs to bring in:

Notifications for fans when a ticket is brought in their name
A way to return/exchange away tickets.

Both of which will reduce away tickets being used by people other than the fans entitled to purchase them.

I agree with both of these although I suspect that any refund would be on the proviso the ticket is resold.

 

[chaileyjem]

Technically there is harvesting of points here...

Son A is in the top tier.
Son A buys the ticket.
Son A accrues points.
Son B goes to the game instead.
Son A retains/strengthens his position in the top tier despite not going to the game.

Decision-makers / appeals panel at the club could well be thinking "Just how often has Son A bought a ticket and given it to Son B?"

However, this is easily remedied without imposing this overly-draconian punishment...

1. Remove the points from Son A - he didn't go to the game.
2. Put Dad and Son A on the "collect ticket from the away ground" list for every fixture they buy tickets for, thereby ensuring Son A is using the ticket he has bought and earned points for.

Yes. Of course. So really its all about the sanction. There are extenuating circumstances, its a first offence, and agreed - your suggestion - ie: some inconvenience (for rest of season ? ) , a reset of the points but not preventing family from attending games is a smarter and fairer form of punishment than, good grief, a ban.

 

[drew]

Technically there is harvesting of points here...

Son A is in the top tier.
Son A buys the ticket.
Son A accrues points.
Son B goes to the game instead.
Son A retains/strengthens his position in the top tier despite not going to the game.

Decision-makers / appeals panel at the club could well be thinking "Just how often has Son A bought a ticket and given it to Son B?"

However, this is easily remedied without imposing this overly-draconian punishment...

1. Remove the points from Son A - he didn't go to the game.
2. Put Dad and Son A on the "collect ticket from the away ground" list for every fixture they buy tickets for, thereby ensuring Son A is using the ticket he has bought and earned points for.

Seems a very pragmatic solution. Have you suggested this to the club to consider?

As a general point. these people with stories about passing tickets between family members, none of them have said they weren't aware of the new rules!!

 

[Nicks]

Click to expand...

Can you confirm that you had tickets in hand and your Id was checked at the turnstyles rather than being asked to collect the tickets?
I can confirm we weren't asked to collect our tickets and they were checked as we went towards the turnstiles.
Then a photo was taken of the ticket with the name on and also a copy of my other lads driving licence as proof of ID.

 

[Nicks]

It was also Son B first away game of the season and there is no way Son A would miss an away game , but that's my word against anybody else's isn't it.

 

[Bozza]

It was also Son B first away game of the season and there is no way Son A would miss an away game , but that's my word against anybody else's isn't it.

I absolutely wasn't suggesting this was the latest of many times you'd done this but, as you say, the club have no way of knowing that.

It doesn't change my view that the punishment handed out feels incredibly harsh.

 

[Nicks]

I absolutely wasn't suggesting this was the latest of many times you'd done this but, as you say, the club have no way of knowing that.

It doesn't change my view that the punishment handed out feels incredibly harsh.

Don't worry I did realise what you were saying and I can see your point of view

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Here is my story.
Myself and my eldest son are in the top tier for Loyalty points and after a lot of faffing about decided to do Wolves away and bought our tickets when they were on sale to all Albion Plus Members.
My son lives in Sutton so because of the train strike on the day he couldn't get to Wolves so I gave his ticket to his younger brother who is an Albion Plus member and lives near to me now.
We drove up to the game from Salisbury and got asked for ID which my lad produced and if course the names didn't match up.
My eldest got an email from the club 2 weeks later telling him that he has a ten game ban and deduction of points.
I immediately emailed the club saying explaining the above situation and saying if they check my purchase date they would see it wasn't a case of harvesting points and gave them all our fan numbers and it was me that gave the ticket to my son and not him as I had bought them both.
I had no reply until last week telling me that as I had been honest and was willing to take the blame and had in no way defaced the ticket they would reduce the ban to 5 home games for me and deduct 50 points from me.
I understand the 50 point deduction and have no qualms about that but for giving a ticket to a family member who is an Albion Plus member and also not purchasing the tickets until they were on sale to Albion Plus Members and getting a 5 game ban for that really gets my goat.
It seems the club are quite happy for you to waste money on tickets that can't be used but not happy for you to use them for family members who pay £20.00 a season for this purpose.
Yet they are quite happy to let visiting fans sit amongst the home fans at The Amex.
Greed is good and it seems this is the norm now for Brighton
My love for this club is being rapidly eroded sadly after 45 years of tramping all around the country watching us.

I understand your point completely but yours is not the behaviour currently being clamped down upon by the club. That there are stories like yours does not diminish the identified problem and nor does it count as a strong argument against the clampdown. If you want someone to blame then your target should be the people abusing the system rather than the club.

 

[BNthree]

Totally agree, putting a simple system, evolution of the home transfer process, to swap a ticket over to someone in your existing f & f with the same loyalty bracket can't be beyond the wit of man/women/they.

Whilst I'm in agreement I'm guessing the stumbling block is the fact an actual physical ticket is posted with a name written on it. Presumably our supporter services could pass a list on to the away club ticket office with a list of "swap these tickets for these people". I imagine it is extra admin work neither club wants though surely not 100s every match so shouldn't be too arduous.

 

[jackalbion]

I agree with both of these although I suspect that any refund would be on the proviso the ticket is resold.

That's fine though, like the season ticket exchange but for away games.