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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,081


S

seagulls4ever

New member
Oct 2, 2003
4,338
Simster said:
That's lovely. Tell me again why anyone should believe this?

Alternatively, with polls suggesting leave has been behind in every poll conducted since January 2018, you might also want to tell us what chance leave would ever have had if we'd been told we'd get no deal from the outset.

If Brexit is to signed off by the Commons, there has to be a chance that life would get better for the people, and no deal clearly doesn't deliver that.
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That's not true. Leave was ahead twice in March 2018 and it's been an even split a few times as well (as recently as 11th February). There's also lots of don't knows.

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/
 




Simster

Simster

"the man's an arse"
Jul 7, 2003
54,216
Surrey
seagulls4ever said:
That's not true. Leave was ahead twice in March 2018 and it's been an even split a few times as well (as recently as 11th February). There's also lots of don't knows.

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/
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I genuiinely didn't know this, but to be fair that show TWO polls out of, what, 30 since Jan 2018? It doesn't really detract from my point which is that leave has been on the back foot since Jan 18.

peterward said:
the polls are exactly the same as they were before June 2016, and what happened?
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But after June 2016, leave DID have a lead in the polls that hasn't been seen since January 2018.

JC Footy Genius said:
I don't know about you but it seems the undemocratic loons in this country assume another vote will almost certainly end up in a Remain win (they wouldn't be vociferously calling for one if Leave had a clear lead in the polls obviously). This maybe because as ususual they think their world view is always right and their narrative of betrayal and lies/ it's all Brexiteers fault is widely held. Shirley the very same arrogant complacency couldn't come back to bite them again .... could it :D
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Actually I was pointing out that leave would never have won if no-deal was the alternative to staying, and I am using these polls as evidence. I am not advocating a second referendum (I changed my opinion on that a few months ago), for the sake of democracy I'd rather a deal was done. BUT there is a line - we shouldn't be expecting our MPs to accept any old shit, and that is what no-deal represents.

I also note that peterward has signularly ignored my first and most pertinent point. He's telling everyone no-deal will be fine. It won't. For a start it just rips up the Good Friday Agreement which is why only the village idiots in UKIP (BNP-lite these days) are happy to wave it through.
 






S

seagulls4ever

New member
Oct 2, 2003
4,338
Simster said:
I genuiinely didn't know this, but to be fair that show TWO polls out of, what, 30 since Jan 2018? It doesn't really detract from my point which is that leave has been on the back foot since Jan 18.
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I think it does somewhat. You said Leave has been behind in every poll since Jan 18. They've been behind in 7/48 (if my quick adding up is correct), which is substantially different from what you said.

Leave is generally behind and that's not great for them, but that was also the case before the first referendum. Who are these 'don't knows'? My personal opinion is that Leave would win again (as long as the choices offered to both sides were fair).*

*Although I think Remain would win if substantial efforts were made to address Leaver's concerns (by both the UK and the EU). However, I doubt that would happen.
 








Stat Brother

Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
73,773
West west west Sussex
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Weststander

Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
64,066
Withdean area
Some hypocritical Blairites clogging the TV screens, such as Beckett, Campbell and Toynbee. Each has spent the best part of 4 years slagging off Corbyn and his agenda, but today they’ve become his biggest fans. Sucking up to him, hoping he becomes a Remainer.

So many snakes across the political class and their writer buddies across the spectrum just now.

Hilary Benn, Anna Soubry and Stephen Kinnock spring to mind as just three folk who’ve not been duplicitous over the last 5 years.
 




Pavilionaire

Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
30,590
nicko31 said:
What really needs to change is the voting system, its no longer fit for the modern era.
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There was a referendum on the Lib Dem-instigated Alternative Vote in 2011 and 68% of the 19 million voted against it, yet 8 years on voters lament the parliamentary gridlock and complete lack of cross-party work on Brexit. Go figure!
 




S

seagulls4ever

New member
Oct 2, 2003
4,338
Pavilionaire said:
There was a referendum on the Lib Dem-instigated Alternative Vote in 2011 and 68% of the 19 million voted against it, yet 8 years on voters lament the parliamentary gridlock and complete lack of cross-party work on Brexit. Go figure!
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Tbf, analysis indicated AV wouldn't have really changed GE outcomes very much. The Lib Dems wanted a referendum on PR and were denied.
 


Pavilionaire

Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
30,590
seagulls4ever said:
Tbf, analysis indicated AV wouldn't have really changed GE outcomes very much. The Lib Dems wanted a referendum on PR and were denied.
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Agreed, but it was the only variation the Tories would agree too. One year into the coalition and Clegg's goose was already cooked as at the time of that AV referendum he was reaping the backlash for the tuition fees capitulation.

Had AV got in I suspect it would have been the first step towards PR, however British voters like their politics in binary black and white, and look where it's got us now.
 


peterward

peterward

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 11, 2009
11,366
pb21 said:
No one voted for no deal, it would be undemocratic for this to happen.
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Nobody voted for a "deal" which is not a deal but an internationally binding treaty.

I voted to leave on WTO terms (which is what is now branded as "no deal") and then to negotiate free trade deals all over the world and also with the EU, and I know loads personally that voted thinking thats what a vote to leave meant, a clean break.... many voted for full extrication from EU, both political union and trading/customs union. Don't get brainwashed by the obfuscation from the media.

Leaving without signing a binding international treaty with the EU, does not stop us making future trade deal with the EU and the rest of the world, and nobody would suggest that we would not work with our close allies in the EU on a whole range of international organisations.

This has been posted before of all the condescending lying referendum over turners.... but if you watch, go to 1:43, Cameron is pretty explicit is he not?

 




pb21

pb21

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2010
6,329
peterward said:
Nobody voted for a "deal" which is not a deal but an internationally binding treaty.

I voted to leave on WTO terms (which is what is now branded as "no deal") and then to negotiate free trade deals all over the world and also with the EU, and I know loads personally that voted thinking thats what a vote to leave meant, a clean break.... many voted for full extrication from EU, both political union and trading/customs union. Don't get brainwashed by the obfuscation from the media.

Leaving without signing a binding international treaty with the EU, does not stop us making future trade deal with the EU and the rest of the world, and nobody would suggest that we would not work with our close allies in the EU on a whole range of international organisations.

This has been posted before of all the condescending lying referendum over turners.... but if you watch, go to 1:43, Cameron is pretty explicit is he not?

Click to expand...


He is just describing the proces, he wasn't saying we would leave on no deal, also there is absolutely no context to that clip whatsoever,what does he say after the clip abruptly clips? Of course a deal could be negotiated in that 2 year period, it has, or it could be extended, it has.

Regardless, no one has ever voted for no deal/WTO terms. Just because you voted to leave and wanted no deal doesn't mean you voted for no deal.
 


Mtoto

Mtoto

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2003
1,841
peterward said:
Nobody voted for a "deal" which is not a deal but an internationally binding treaty.

I voted to leave on WTO terms (which is what is now branded as "no deal") and then to negotiate free trade deals all over the world and also with the EU, and I know loads personally that voted thinking thats what a vote to leave meant, a clean break.... many voted for full extrication from EU, both political union and trading/customs union. Don't get brainwashed by the obfuscation from the media.

Leaving without signing a binding international treaty with the EU, does not stop us making future trade deal with the EU and the rest of the world, and nobody would suggest that we would not work with our close allies in the EU on a whole range of international organisations.

This has been posted before of all the condescending lying referendum over turners.... but if you watch, go to 1:43, Cameron is pretty explicit is he not?

Click to expand...



Out of interest, when you thought it all through and did the maths, roughly how much of a hit did you expect the UK economy to take as a result of voting to Leave? Or, to put it another way, what in your opinion is the maximum price worth paying for "full extrication"? 10pc of GDP maybe, or 15pc? More?
 


Triggaaar

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,207
Goldstone
peterward said:
I voted to leave on WTO terms (which is what is now branded as "no deal") and then to negotiate free trade deals all over the world and also with the EU, and I know loads personally that voted thinking thats what a vote to leave meant
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If people thought that's what leave meant, then they didn't listen to much of the discussion before the vote, because it's clear that's not what a vote to leave meant.

This has been posted before of all the condescending lying referendum over turners.... but if you watch, go to 1:43, Cameron is pretty explicit is he not?
Click to expand...
Comments have been cut out of context in that video. I'm certainly not on the side of the politicians, and I'm also not suggesting that they didn't either lie or get things wrong, but still, cutting parts of a sentence and suggesting they mean the same when said alone is just daft.
 


WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
25,876
peterward said:
Nobody voted for a "deal" which is not a deal but an internationally binding treaty.

I voted to leave on WTO terms (which is what is now branded as "no deal") and then to negotiate free trade deals all over the world and also with the EU, and I know loads personally that voted thinking thats what a vote to leave meant, a clean break.... many voted for full extrication from EU, both political union and trading/customs union. Don't get brainwashed by the obfuscation from the media.

Leaving without signing a binding international treaty with the EU, does not stop us making future trade deal with the EU and the rest of the world, and nobody would suggest that we would not work with our close allies in the EU on a whole range of international organisations.

This has been posted before of all the condescending lying referendum over turners.... but if you watch, go to 1:43, Cameron is pretty explicit is he not?

Click to expand...


As some others on here may confirm, It's very rarely that I am speechless but I really wouldn't know where to start :lolol:

Enjoy the match :thumbsup:
 




L

Lincoln Imp

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2009
5,964
Weststander said:
What’s it got to do with Stewart Hosie, just another SNP shit stirrer? No one on NSC used to quote the SNP as paragons of virtue. Remember, their hypocritical raison d’etre is TO BREAK UP POLITICAL UNIONS.

Let Corbyn and May decide the next step, not a bunch of Scots thriving on Westminster’s divisions.
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If you really think that the union of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is similar to the union of Europe then I can understand your views on Brexit.
 


Weststander

Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
64,066
Withdean area
Lincoln Imp said:
If you really think that the union of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is similar to the union of Europe then I can understand your views on Brexit.
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The EU were against Scottish independence, as they are Catalunya from Spain.

Shirley political unions, whether they be in the form of the UK or the EU, are a good thing. Yes or no?

Put it another way, Trump and Putin want alliances to fail. Anything that p*sses them off, indicates that’s it’s good for humanity.
 


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