[Albion] Great read, where do you stand on the subject?

jamie the seagull · Feb 27, 2019

"Brighton are identifying and purchasing good players but Hughton refuses to play them"...…."That may come down to loyalty on Chris Hughton’s part"

examples:
Bong instead of Bernardo?
Gross instead of Bissouma ?

The Gem · Feb 27, 2019

Javeaseagull said:
The squad is far superior to last season where we were lucky with injuries and suspensions. That luck ran out this season.

If the squad is far superior, you may ask why did 7 of the 11 starting players in last nights line up featured in the Championship 2 years ago?

Either the squad has gone backwards or the Manager has lost his bottle.

The Gem · Feb 27, 2019

jamie the seagull said:
"Brighton are identifying and purchasing good players but Hughton refuses to play them"...…."That may come down to loyalty on Chris Hughton’s part"

examples:
Bong instead of Bernardo?
Gross instead of Bissouma ?

March instead of anyone
Stephens instead of anyone

Javeaseagull · Feb 27, 2019

The Gem said:
If the squad is far superior, you may ask why did 7 of the 11 starting players in last nights line up featured in the Championship 2 years ago?

Either the squad has gone backwards or the Manager has lost his bottle.

Do you really think that the squad hasn't improved? OK mate, can't help you.

Weststander · Feb 27, 2019

Knocky's Nose said:
Decent article.

I can't help but imagine a big supercomputer in Tony Bloom's office chugging on stats all year, then coughing out the odd ticket "deli counter style" with a players name on it whom we need to buy...

CH nods, thinking "the more the merrier, it gives me options" - and Tony Bloom further thinks his algorithms are the way forward.

Unless you're spending £100m+ I doubt any player is a nailed-on success. There are so many variables, all happening at once. You can get very lucky, or very unlucky.

Getting the very best out of a player seems to be about man management these days (after you've identified they're clearly talented, of course) - so is CH doing that properly, or has he just been unlucky?

Even Smug/Bmuff, lauded on NSC by so many, spent huge sums on later flops in their first few PL windows. Someone here documented that once.

Wolves with a different approach have quickly gathered a load of international players from world football, no doubt on big wages, but even they have lost so many PL matches.

Can only think of Citeh, Liverpool, Spuds and Watford who seem to have had a high success rate in transfers in the last 2 or 3 years.

A complex aspect.

Postman Pat · Feb 27, 2019

The players that article covers are:

Alireza Jahanbakhsh 19,00 Mill. € - Injured/International - not done enough yet
Yves Bissouma 16,90 Mill. € - Looks decent - should play more
Bernardo 10,00 Mill. € - Looks decent - should play more
Martín Montoya 7,00 Mill. € - Seems to have replaced Bruno
Florin Andone 6,00 Mill. € - Injured / Suspended - Not done enough yet
David Button 4,50 Mill. € - Cover for Ryan
Dan Burn 3,30 Mill. € - At Wigan for 6 months - cover
Percy Tau 3,20 Mill. € - No WP - Loaned out
Jason Steele Free Transfer - Cover
Leon Balogun Free Transfer - Cover

Jürgen Locadia 17,00 Mill. € - Not done enough
José Izquierdo 15,00 Mill. € - Been injured - Done OK
Davy Pröpper 13,00 Mill. € - Played pretty much all season
Mathew Ryan 6,00 Mill. € - Played all season
Markus Suttner4,50 Mill. € - Wasn't good enough - Replaced by Bernardo
Pascal Groß 3,00 Mill. € - Player of the season
Ezequiel Schelotto 3,00 Mill. € - Sold - Replaced by Montoya
Tim Krul Free Transfer - Cover - Now sold

4 of those are keepers, 3 of which are cover, 2 have been replaced, Tau can't play for us, Burn was loaned out..... that article needs better research.

Springal · Feb 27, 2019

Weststander said:
Even Smug/Bmuff, lauded on NSC by so many, spent huge sums on later flops in their first few PL windows. Someone here documented that once.

Wolves with a different approach have quickly gathered a load of international players from world football, no doubt on big wages, but even they have lost so many PL matches.

Wolves only have only lost 4 less matches than us, but currently sit 8th. The difference is their 11 wins vs our 7

Guinness Boy · Feb 27, 2019

Weststander said:
Even Smug/Bmuff, lauded on NSC by so many, spent huge sums on later flops in their first few PL windows. Someone here documented that once.

Wolves with a different approach have quickly gathered a load of international players from world football, no doubt on big wages, but even they have lost so many PL matches.

Can only think of Citeh, Liverpool, Spuds and Watford who seem to have had a high success rate in transfers in the last 2 or 3 years.

A complex aspect.

That's the other thing about the article. There's no real sense of comparison. It's called "early loser" but early loser of what, compared with who. To extend your examples:

- Huddersfield - simply awful mid-table Championship squad rightfully bottom of the table (and will probably beat us now I've typed that!)
- Fulham - spent far more than us, going down
- Palace - no recognised centre forward for most of the season. The one they would have played was a £30 million flop
- Newcastle - barely any signings at all for several windows
- Southampton - seem to have a club policy of weakening the squad wherever possible.

Spurs, meanwhile, bought nobody at all. That certainly wasn't an option for us.

Weststander · Feb 27, 2019

Springal said:
Wolves only have only lost 4 less matches than us, but currently sit 8th. The difference is their 11 wins vs our 7

Missing my overall point. Even their approach of going all out financially on a level of famous players Brighton can’t afford (wages), has still dealt them 10 defeats, whilst being beaten by little old Brighton and Hudd. It’s such a hard division, even when a cavalier cheque book approach tries to buy success. Benchmarking the huge challenges TB faces.

Postman Pat · Feb 27, 2019

Guinness Boy said:
That's the other thing about the article. There's no real sense of comparison. It's called "early loser" but early loser of what, compared with who. .

They do an 'early loser' article each week, it will be based on who is having a bad week/run. They have done them on Alexis Sanchez, Phil Foden, Mourinho (obviously), Hodgson etc..

Springal · Feb 27, 2019

Weststander said:
Missing my overall point. Even their approach of going all out financially on a level of famous players Brighton can’t afford (wages), has still dealt them 10 defeats, whilst being beaten by little old Brighton and Hudd. It’s such a hard division, even when a cavalier cheque book approach tries to buy success. Benchmarking the huge challenges TB faces.

No I get the point, but they are 8th and fans are thinking they might be able to get into Europe.
Even if we or Huddersfield have beaten them, they're having a much more successful season than us.

Weststander · Feb 27, 2019

Springal said:
No I get the point, but they are 8th and fans are thinking they might be able to get into Europe.
Even if we or Huddersfield have beaten them, they're having a much more successful season than us.

Yes, attained by buying a load of famous players, and that’s the reason why. Agreed?

But even with their financial might and incredible squad, in this difficult division, they’re get turned over by Hudd and Brighton. Showing the huge challenge TB faces to keep us here, with a sustainable approach.

Turkey · Feb 27, 2019

I'm not having that.

You look at Fulham and how they ripped up a team playing exciting attacking football in the Championship to bring in a load of new players and fail to integrate them.

What does it say to the players who got you up? Who were all on the same page pulling in the same direction? I think you need to be very careful when you're promoted with your recruitment and I think we've done it pretty well, let's not forget the positive comments on here of how strong our rotated cup sides looked in terms of our strength in depth.

I think it is absolutely right that when a new player joins the club they have to earn their spot. It doesn't matter if they cost £17m. The player with the shirt holds it until such time as they are struggling for form, need a rest, pick up an injury or suspension. Then the new player gets an opportunity to make their mark and if they take that chance, the player who has been with you can go "fair enough, he's taken his opportunity". You have to earn that shirt, you don't just get it, regardless of whether you're a better player or not, it's about managing a group of people, it's not Fifa on the xbox.

On top of that, we have had a very well coached team. A new player doesn't just step into that and know what is expected of them. They build it up over time. Throwing in everyone new and you end up with strangers on the pitch unsure of what they're supposed to be doing. We've also seen plenty of players of the years take time to adapt to either the club or the country. It's a normal process.

I think the fact that any of the starting XI against Derby could come into a Premier League game and slot into the team and know their jobs and what is expected of them, and have the confidence of their colleagues is very good squad management. It's got to be a tricky job developing a side, it's not something that generally happens over night.

Do we need more quality, of course we do, we always will do as every club strives to improve but I can't agree that our recruitment has been poor.

Mellor 3 Ward 4 · Feb 27, 2019

Guinness Boy said:
It's an oversimplistic article. Izquierdo has been injured most of the season. Andone arrived injured and Murray was in decent form when he finally recovered. Then, as Murray declined, he managed to get himself banned for three games. Propper has been more or less ever present when fit, Montoya and Bruno have traded the shirt and are really horses for different courses given their respective strengths and weaknesses. Burn and Balogun were bought as back up. On their day Duffy and Dunk are one of the best pairings in the league and this was certainly the case pre-Christmas. Ditto the two keepers were always back up. A new signing at the start of last season (Gross) is keeping out a new signing from the start of this season (Bissouma) though I personally hope that's about to change.

There are areas where we have bought poorly. Locadia is just not good enough. Ali J has shown very little (though, again, there was an injury issue). These two have been a massive dissapointment so far. The constant selection of Bong in place of Bernardo is absolutely baffling. It makes zero sense to me.

The light at the end of the tunnel is that injuries and suspensions seem to be ending at about the same time (and the new one we picked up is Gross, out of form and hopefully replaced by Bissouma). We could go out on Saturday with genuine pace and excitement. Bissouma in the middle. Bernardo at LB. A front three of Andone, Knockaert and izquierdo (though, of course, March will predictably play instead). If we fail to use these sorts of players when the old guard are failing then the writer will have a point. But, right now, not only does the article ignore injuries, it ignores the fact that many of these signings were only ever signed as back up.

My thoughts entirely.

Icy Gull · Feb 27, 2019

Turkey said:
I'm not having that.

You look at Fulham and how they ripped up a team playing exciting attacking football in the Championship to bring in a load of new players and fail to integrate them.

What does it say to the players who got you up? Who were all on the same page pulling in the same direction? I think you need to be very careful when you're promoted with your recruitment and I think we've done it pretty well, let's not forget the positive comments on here of how strong our rotated cup sides looked in terms of our strength in depth.

I think it is absolutely right that when a new player joins the club they have to earn their spot. It doesn't matter if they cost £17m. The player with the shirt holds it until such time as they are struggling for form, need a rest, pick up an injury or suspension. Then the new player gets an opportunity to make their mark and if they take that chance, the player who has been with you can go "fair enough, he's taken his opportunity". You have to earn that shirt, you don't just get it, regardless of whether you're a better player or not, it's about managing a group of people, it's not Fifa on the xbox.

On top of that, we have had a very well coached team. A new player doesn't just step into that and know what is expected of them. They build it up over time. Throwing in everyone new and you end up with strangers on the pitch unsure of what they're supposed to be doing. We've also seen plenty of players of the years take time to adapt to either the club or the country. It's a normal process.

I think the fact that any of the starting XI against Derby could come into a Premier League game and slot into the team and know their jobs and what is expected of them, and have the confidence of their colleagues is very good squad management. It's got to be a tricky job developing a side, it's not something that generally happens over night.

Do we need more quality, of course we do, we always will do as every club strives to improve but I can't agree that our recruitment has been poor.

Excellent post

The Large One · Feb 27, 2019

Not impressed with that piece by the Doncaster Belles press officer.

The first thing that comes across is the tone. It's justifying an over-simplistic summary being backfilled with selective statistics and prejudicial self-celebratory language, which is frankly bordering on the hysterical.

It makes little use of context (players have been injured), and uses arbitrary statistics to oversell a point that is neither relevant nor pertinent.

An example...

"either Brighton are identifying and purchasing good players but Hughton refuses to play them, or they are spending a lot of money buying players who are worse than the ones they already have."

The whole notion of playing someone just because they cost a lot of money is overly facile, and has little relevance. However, to him it's an entire justification to criticise Hughton and/or the club.

Greg Bobkin · Feb 27, 2019

So, if the club survives in the Premier League (a high chance that will be the case), will the squad be hailed a success, given that many senior figures have come out and said that was the main aim?

Clearly, the club isn't in the position it wants to be in, but I would argue it is in the position is partly EXPECTED to be in. I get what the article is saying, but like GB says, it's all too simplistic. Not long ago – when the Albion were mid-table – there was a thread on here saying how the new arrivals had really helped the team and you can probably find a thread on each of them saying how great they are. Even Locadia. Then there is the 'takes time to settle' argument, which is certainly true to an extent with some players and probably why CH manages them the way he does.

I'm not saying the article is BS, but the recent slide down the table helps make it almost write itself. Partial clickbait.

8049 · Feb 27, 2019

B-right-on said:
Is that not the point. We are supposed to be improving the squad, not getting players as back up to what we have, if we want to kick on and be a mid table club

Isn't improving the squad and having players as back up the same thing? The general level of our squad has improved. Our bench on the first game last season after the summer transfer window SLAMMED shut - against West Brom - was::

Maenpaa
Hunemeier
Rosenior
Skalak
Izquierdo
Murphy
Murray (who had a knock in pre-season iirc)

The starting line up included Tomer Hemed. From those players, one is retired, three are playing in the Championship (although Skalak generally isn't in the squad), one is in Scottish Premiership (so Championship equivalent) and another is playing in 2nd tier of German football and the other two are first choice when fit.

In comparison, our bench for the last league game we won - Palace - was:
Steele
Bong
Balogun
Kayal
Knockaert
Locadia
Andone

In terms of quality, despite what some might think of Bong, Steele and, even possibly, Kayal, for me that is a much stronger bench and, therefore, we have a stronger squad. If we don't get relegated, my guess is that we will look to improve the quality of some of our first team players and ratchet up the overall quality that way.

macbeth · Feb 27, 2019

This is a very 'statty' article and it doesn't really come down to conclude a cause of the the problems. It says its either the recruitment team or Hughton not playing them, doesn't settle on one or the other and totally ignores the injury time and the circumstances many of these players signing i.e. for squad depth. The writer has obviously looked at the stats, look at the pl table and just written the article off the back of that, without really looking at any of the individual cases of players. I would say the only player who has proven to be not good enough is Locadia. Regardless if the new signings were playing or not, if we were 13th this article would not have been written.

Simster · Feb 27, 2019

Tom Hark said:
Totally agree. The club's scattergun approach to recruitment has been an abject failure overall.

Easily said in hindsight with the club in it's worst run of form in years.

Not really true though - we stayed up easily last season and were mid-table at the turn of the year. We've had some shit luck, haven't played badly recently, and could yet win our next 5 matches which would leave us mid table again. And that leaves aside the fact that Izquierdo - one of the best of those recruits - has been injured for ages.

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