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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,081


larus

larus

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
6,580
In the land of hope and expectation....
Bold Seagull said:
Your graph shows both Germany and France on an upward trend, with GB on a downward trend about to go below both pretty much since 2016. Not sure if that was the point you were looking for?
Click to expand...

Simster said:
How does that contradict anything I've said? You may not have noticed, but we've been in the single market in all of that time. Soon, we'll be the less significant market on the EU's doorstep, so we won't be seeing plants that build cars for the European market sprouting up anymore.



I don't know whether larus wants us to deal with those particular facts though.
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No, I haven’t included the latest figures (as they’re not on the world bank site)., however, Germany is very likely to be in a technical recession for the 2nd half of 2018, so that sort of torpedoes your replies.

The simple fact is, we continually get told about how bad the UK is and how great France/Germany are by the EU apologists on here, but the facts don’t support that.

We’ve been in turmoil for the last 2 years (rememeber all those dire warnings about what would happen if the plebs dared to vote leave - not once we left). Even with all of this crap for the last 2 years, we’re still about a third better growth over the last 20 years comapred to both Germany and France.

Sort of screws up the remainers arguments here/

Oh, and to make things even more impressive regarding the UK, the ECB has been running QE and has negative interest rates of 0.4%. Yes, even with ALL of this monetary stimulus, they couldn’t get much more growth than us (and France has only managed to sneak ahead by 0.03% in 2017 after years behind), and once the ECB cut the stimulus, the growth collapsed.

Yeah, the EU area growth is frigging AWESOME. (Not).

Let’s see you address my points here (I’ll try to reply later but off out now).
 








pb21

pb21

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2010
6,329
larus said:
Oh dear - poor you. France has been below us all that time, and Germany has just gone into recession.:wrong: So Germany went about us a bit at the end, but economic cycles last more than 6-7 years, so you could be accused of trying too cherry-pick (and still failing BTW), but remainers aren’t exactly renowned for facing facts are they!!!
Click to expand...

You posted facts to counter the "cheap jibe" of:

"we'll soon see how it affects our bottom line as our GDP falls further and further behind France and Germany."

you even highlight part of it.

Yet your facts show precisely that our GDP is falling behind France and Germany.
 


G

Garry Nelson's teacher

Well-known member
May 11, 2015
5,257
Bloody Worthing!
larus said:
Oh dear - poor you. France has been below us all that time, and Germany has just gone into recession.:wrong: So Germany went about us a bit at the end, but economic cycles last more than 6-7 years, so you could be accused of trying too cherry-pick (and still failing BTW), but remainers aren’t exactly renowned for facing facts are they!!!
Click to expand...

You are right to mention the economic cycles issue. But the UK's has never totally synchronised with the EU's which does tend to make snapshots at any given time a little unreliable or at least not definitive. Of course the thing that really counts is the outlook...……………...As I tend to view Brexit as a lose-lose (us and them) then the future looks ________ (fill in the missing word).
 




Bold Seagull

Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,807
Hove
larus said:
No, I haven’t included the latest figures (as they’re not on the world bank site)., however, Germany is very likely to be in a technical recession for the 2nd half of 2018, so that sort of torpedoes your replies.

The simple fact is, we continually get told about how bad the UK is and how great France/Germany are by the EU apologists on here, but the facts don’t support that.

We’ve been in turmoil for the last 2 years (rememeber all those dire warnings about what would happen if the plebs dared to vote leave - not once we left). Even with all of this crap for the last 2 years, we’re still about a third better growth over the last 20 years comapred to both Germany and France.

Sort of screws up the remainers arguments here/

Oh, and to make things even more impressive regarding the UK, the ECB has been running QE and has negative interest rates of 0.4%. Yes, even with ALL of this monetary stimulus, they couldn’t get much more growth than us (and France has only managed to sneak ahead by 0.03% in 2017 after years behind), and once the ECB cut the stimulus, the growth collapsed.

Yeah, the EU area growth is frigging AWESOME. (Not).

Let’s see you address my points here (I’ll try to reply later but off out now).
Click to expand...

Do we need to. All your points on our growth are with us being in the EU. The only reason it's dipped (according to you) is because we've said we're leaving.

Even post brexit our economy is still going to be linked to that of the EU - they're still our biggest market. In business, you don't actually want your best customer doing badly.

So yes, your point is well taken, the UK has done better out of the EU than France or Germany. Again, you seem to be making an argument for remain?
 




ManOfSussex

ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,748
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
larus said:
(rememeber all those dire warnings about what would happen if the plebs dared to vote leave - not once we left). Even with all of this crap for the last 2 years, we’re still about a third better growth over the last 20 years comapred to both Germany and France.
Click to expand...

Out of interest, how many/which of those dire warnings were based on Article 50 being invoked the next day as Cameron said he would and which ones weren't?
 




ManOfSussex

ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,748
Rape of Hastings, Sussex




K

Kinky Gerbil

Im The Scatman
NSC Patron
Jul 16, 2003
57,910
hassocks
Garry Nelson's teacher said:
New Brexit political party has been recognised by the Electoral Commission, This lady is its chief; a charmer, by the look of it...………

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/health...aiklock-says-foodbanks-fuel-obesity-1-5853723
Click to expand...

I see Farage is in.

Only one animal can stop him.

0153B15F-6DA4-4E59-8E3D-3B3B07CAC7BE.jpeg
 




Dick Head

Dick Head

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Jan 3, 2010
13,635
Quaxxann
New Brexit party backed by Nigel Farage gets go-ahead [link]

A new Brexit party backed by Nigel Farage got the go-ahead today after it was registered with the Electoral Commission.

The group, called The Brexit Party, could attract Conservative activists disillusioned with Theresa May ’s handling of EU withdrawal.

It could be thrust into the spotlight if EU departure is delayed from its scheduled date of March 29, with ex-UKIP leader Mr Farage likely to seek a return to frontline politics.

Writing in the Daily Telegraph, the seven-time general election seat loser claimed "a significant amount of money has been pledged to the Brexit Party if it is forced to take part in an election".

"The engine is running," he said. "In defence of democracy, we stand ready for battle."

Who's in?
 


WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
25,866
Dick Head said:
New Brexit party backed by Nigel Farage gets go-ahead [link]

A new Brexit party backed by Nigel Farage got the go-ahead today after it was registered with the Electoral Commission.

The group, called The Brexit Party, could attract Conservative activists disillusioned with Theresa May ’s handling of EU withdrawal.

It could be thrust into the spotlight if EU departure is delayed from its scheduled date of March 29, with ex-UKIP leader Mr Farage likely to seek a return to frontline politics.

Writing in the Daily Telegraph, the seven-time general election seat loser claimed "a significant amount of money has been pledged to the Brexit Party if it is forced to take part in an election".

"The engine is running," he said. "In defence of democracy, we stand ready for battle."

Who's in?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, both my eyes face forward, so for that reason


I'M OUT
 






pastafarian

pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
Simster said:
I shall explain: EU law allows member nations to restrict labour from new member states for up to seven years. Our governments have never invoked this - we were one of just 3 states not to. Why the hell were our semi/non skilled workers not protected from this cheap external labour force? We were entitled to.
Click to expand...
You say we have never invoked this, but for Romania and Bulgaria we did use the 7 year restrictions. Since those restrictions ceased to be allowed Romania and Bulgaria have overtaken the combined inward immigration totals of Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungry, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia. The time limited restrictions don’t seem to be really worth much at all, just delaying the inevitable.
I presume you mean the EU8 expansion,we should indeed have restricted access for 7 years, only two existing EU nations did enforce 7 year restrictions on The Eastern Europe expansion though…….…. Germany and Austria.

Simster said:
And to continue the point, EU freedom of movement guarantees the freedom of movement of labour, not people.
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You are a bit out of date here.
Since 1993 it has been Freedom of movement and residence for persons in the EU.
It is the cornerstone of Union citizenship.

“Citizenship of the Union confers on every citizen of the Union a primary and individual right to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States”

“The free movement of persons constitutes one of the fundamental freedoms of the internal market”

Free movement of persons-EU Parliament fact sheet
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/147/free-movement-of-persons

You can study, reside, retire, jobseek. Rights are extended to family members.
Surprised you havnt heard this,have you never heard Caroline Lucas for example go off on her spiel “What a precious gift it is to be able to study and work and live and love in 27 other countries”

Simster said:
Throughout the EU, if you haven't got a job the member country can throw you out after 3 months.
Click to expand...

To say you can be simply thrown out if you don’t have a job within 3 months is very simplistically wrong.

There are various rights that contradict this belief.
Apart from the obvious that you can reside,retire be a student and not have a job etc there are some like.....
You retain the status of worker for a minimum of 6 months if you become involuntarily unemployed whilst on a fixed term contract.
If you have worked for two years and find yourself unemployed after a work related illness there is no conditions placed on how long you can reside in a country.

Jobseekers have rights too if they are genuinely continuing to seek employment….
“an expulsion measure may in no case be adopted against Union citizens or their family members if: (b) the Union citizens entered the territory of the host Member State in order to seek employment. In this case, the Union citizens and their family members may not be expelled for as long as the Union citizens can provide evidence that they are continuing to seek employment and that they have a genuine chance of being engaged.”
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2004:158:0077:0123:en:PDF
 


Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,957
Crawley
Plooks said:
What is the point? Both Labour and Tories are brexit parties currently.
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Nigel doesn't want to miss out on another shot at the EU gravy train he moans about, but can't stand for UKIP as he is not quite racist enough for them anymore.

Their thinking is that we will postpone or cancel Brexit, and they can get some seats in the EU Parliament.
 


C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2009
4,747
Two Professors said:
Describes itself as a member of the liberal elite.Doesn't sound very liberal to me,in fact extreme harridan.Why are most people on twitter extremist nutters?
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I expect she will be moaning later that she can’t get her hybrid valeted for less than £20.

People that refer to their parents as mother and father will be crying into their granola.
 


C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2009
4,747
ManOfSussex said:
My only surprise with the Brexit result in 2016 was that leave didn't win by as bigger margin as I thought it would.

Not all of us live in privileged, home counties, wealthy, middle class bubbles like you do Fergie.
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Really?

Why was the difference in the vote not as material as you predicted?
 




C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2009
4,747
Baldseagull said:
Nigel doesn't want to miss out on another shot at the EU gravy train he moans about, but can't stand for UKIP as he is not quite racist enough for them anymore.

Their thinking is that we will postpone or cancel Brexit, and they can get some seats in the EU Parliament.
Click to expand...


Don’t forget the money we pay the Irish Nationalist MPs to not sit in the HOC.

Understand the motive of their voters and you get UKIP/leave voters.

No difference in my view, albeit I wouldn’t condone either.
 


C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2009
4,747
vegster said:
If all this data proves we have had a burgeoning economy compared to France and Germany, why have we had the continuing and ongoing cutbacks of austerity and a virtual stagnation of wages for the last 10 years ?
Click to expand...

It’s economics 1.01 you either support the poor or you don’t.....

https://www.newstatesman.com/politi...-immigration-has-destroyed-conditions-british

At the end of the day you have to pick a side, look around and work out who you are aligned with.
 


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