Julian Assange Unlawfully Detained

A1X · Apr 11, 2019

Ernest said:
Swedish charges have been dropped

Not quite true. Some of them have been dropped, others are currently frozen (the time limit is until June 2020) but could be reactivated by the Swedish prosecutors if they wished to do so. We haven't yet heard from Sweden whether this is the case so far as I am aware.

Algernon · Apr 11, 2019

Good to see he's kept up to date and is on trend with the whole bushy beard fashion thing.
Stands a good chance of a pull if he gets out into town on Friday or Saturday night.

Curious Orange · Apr 11, 2019

Westdene Seagull said:
Indeed ..... if that's true. The BBC are reporting differently but now we have him I'm sure the discussion will come up about handing him over. Maybe we could use him to get a trade deal with the US ?

EDIT - the BBC now reporting "The Met Police said he was arrested for failing to surrender to the court and following a US extradition request." - so I'd stick with the 'shame on us' quote.

I suspect that is a bit of crap editing on the BBC website, he was certainly arrested for skipping bail first, he may well have been rearrested because of the subsequent extradition request, but it'll be up to a court to decide whether that goes through - I doubt he'll be going anywhere other than into remand for a while.

dingodan · Apr 11, 2019

Thunder Bolt said:
My link is from February 2019.

Your link doesn't show the statistic. I had to find it myself.

If the number of Ukranians who want to join NATO are of significance, then, in order to remain consistent, the number of Crimeans who want to join Russia must be also?

But those numbers were really not at issue anyway. I was pointing out that NATO expansion east has long been understood to be percieved by Russia to be a threat. So understood was this fact, that we even gave all the assurances detailed in my original post. So we always knew that expanding NATO east would result in diplomatic/military tension between the West and Russia. It's not a controversial point.

We've done it anyway, and what I was pointing out was that we don't acknowledge, at all, that this is the source of that tension.

The Maharajah of Sydney · Apr 11, 2019

Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo said:
He was originally arrested for failure to surrender to the courts according to the BBC. The request on the behalf of the US has come since the original arrest. I wonder what he did to piss of Ecuador?

Here's the gist of it ;

The Ecuador government last year set strict conditions on Assange's behaviour within the embassy, which Moreno said Assange had broken.

"He particularly violated the [rule] of not intervening in the internal affairs of other states," Moreno said. "The most recent incident occurred in January 2019 when WikiLeaks leaked Vatican documents.

"Key members of that organisation visited Mr Assange before and after such illegal acts. This and other publications have confirmed the world's suspicion that Mr Assange is still linked to WikiLeaks."

Moreno said Assange had "confronted and mistreated guards" at the embassy, had accessed security files at the embassy without permission, and had kept a secret mobile phone to communicate to the outside world. He also installed electronic and "distortion" equipment in a bid to foil embassy surveillance, and blocked security cameras.

Blue Valkyrie · Apr 11, 2019

A1X said:
Not quite true. Some of them have been dropped, others are currently frozen (the time limit is until June 2020) but could be reactivated by the Swedish prosecutors if they wished to do so. We haven't yet heard from Sweden whether this is the case so far as I am aware.

Heard a rumour that the case has already been re-opened today.

Hamilton · Apr 11, 2019

The Maharajah of Sydney said:
Here's the gist of it ;

The Ecuador government last year set strict conditions on Assange's behaviour within the embassy, which Moreno said Assange had broken.

"He particularly violated the [rule] of not intervening in the internal affairs of other states," Moreno said. "The most recent incident occurred in January 2019 when WikiLeaks leaked Vatican documents.

"Key members of that organisation visited Mr Assange before and after such illegal acts. This and other publications have confirmed the world's suspicion that Mr Assange is still linked to WikiLeaks."

Moreno said Assange had "confronted and mistreated guards" at the embassy, had accessed security files at the embassy without permission, and had kept a secret mobile phone to communicate to the outside world. He also installed electronic and "distortion" equipment in a bid to foil embassy surveillance, and blocked security cameras.

So, he behaved like a cock in his guest's house?

Perfidious Albion · Apr 11, 2019

So his hosts became fed up with him , o k .... but I appreciated his leaked video of the American helicopter gunship , among others.
He may be a prat, but useful

SAC · Apr 11, 2019

Hamilton said:
So, he behaved like a cock in his guest's house?

I think they didn't like him pissing off the Vatican. As soon as he did this, his days were numbered.

Triggaaar · Apr 11, 2019

symyjym said:
We have to be objective and critisise our own government first, and unless we do we are not really in a position to critisise others

What are you talking about, we continuously criticise our own government. Many (most I think) of us are against Blair for getting us to invade Iraq. We can also criticise Russia for taking over the Crimea, and for them sending KGB agents to assassinate an ex-Russian agent who had been released to the UK.

Deportivo Seagull · Apr 11, 2019

dingodan said:
I think you might find that it's a little more complicated than that. The Ukranian government (which wanted to closer ties with Russia) was overthrown. There were protests against the overthrow of the government. The new government (which wanted closer ties with the West) attacked protesters in Donetsk and started shelling the town.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Crimea

That was when Russian forces entered the area.

I'm not particularly interested in arguing the rights and wrongs of such a complicated situation, I can see both sides of the argument (when it is had reasonably and based on what actually happened).

But I do find double standards annoying. Every few years we hear about bombs being dropped on people around the world and we want to send in our military forces. Whether you think what Russia did in Crimea was right or wrong, it was a mirror image of what we do around the world frequently. If Russia were an invading force in Crimea, then so are we in multiple theatres around the world. Likewise, if we are a great defender of people under attack, going in to these regions to protect and defend people, then so was Russia in Crimea. You can't have it both ways.

Now that is a very naive view of Russia’s actions in the Crimea. Dressing up your army as civvies and then shipping them into the Crimea to raise merry hell isnt the act of a country trying to defend Ethnic Russians from the Ukrainian oppressor. that is the sort of tactic that should have died with the Cold War.
It’s about having arguably the best naval base in the region and the thought of losing access to it was too much. Putin couldn’t give a toss about ethnic Russians in the Crimea. TBF, this type of attitude by Russia’s leaders regard its people hasn’t changed in hundreds of years.
Trying to defend Russia as some sort of bastion of the free world by criticising the West is an act of the worse type of Whataboutism that I’ve come across in a while.

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beorhthelm · Apr 11, 2019

amusing to see he wound up his host to the point they asked for him to be removed. US arrest warrant is not what i expected so intersesting to see what charges are. will also be interesting to see how the conspiray loon, Trump loving brigade handle this, as usually they are pro-Assange too.

symyjym · Apr 11, 2019

Triggaaar said:
What are you talking about, we continuously criticise our own government. Many (most I think) of us are against Blair for getting us to invade Iraq. We can also criticise Russia for taking over the Crimea, and for them sending KGB agents to assassinate an ex-Russian agent who had been released to the UK.

Well then. If this is the case you would also agree that we have caused more trouble, devastation and destruction in the world over the last 20 years than Russian has done? And if that is the case it is more important putting our own house in order before we dictate our will and righteousness to others?

Triggaaar · Apr 11, 2019

symyjym said:
Well then. If this is the case you would also agree the we have caused more trouble, devastation and destruction in the world over the last 20 years than Russian has done?

No. Not sure how you'd draw that conclusion. The problems with the world aren't all down to the invasion or iraq.

And if that is the case it is more important putting our own house in order before we dictate our will and righteousness to others?

If you're honest with yourself, you will know that we can't make any country, including our own, perfect, so you're effectively saying we shouldn't ever criticise any foreign country, or hold any foreign country to any standards at all. That's daft. We want to hold all countries, including our own, to decent standards.

symyjym · Apr 11, 2019

Triggaaar said:
No. Not sure how you'd draw that conclusion. The problems with the world aren't all down to the invasion or iraq.
If you're honest with yourself, you will know that we can't make any country, including our own, perfect, so you're effectively saying we shouldn't ever criticise any foreign country, or hold any foreign country to any standards at all. That's daft. We want to hold all countries, including our own, to decent standards.

Why didn't you also quote Libya and Syria from my comment? The regime change policy hasn't stopped with Iraq you do realise. And your comment about wanting to hold all countries responsible to our "so called" decent standards? I am sure that you would have heard of the term "Practice what you preach" or maybe you are more familiar with "Do as I say, not as I do" school of psychology.

dingodan · Apr 11, 2019

Deportivo Seagull said:
Now that is a very naive view of Russia’s actions in the Crimea. Dressing up your army as civvies and then shipping them into the Crimea to raise merry hell isnt the act of a country trying to defend Ethnic Russians from the Ukrainian oppressor. that is the sort of tactic that should have died with the Cold War.
It’s about having arguably the best naval base in the region and the thought of losing access to it was too much. Putin couldn’t give a toss about ethnic Russians in the Crimea. TBF, this type of attitude by Russia’s leaders regard its people hasn’t changed in hundreds of years.
Trying to defend Russia as some sort of bastion of the free world by criticising the West is an act of the worse type of Whataboutism that I’ve come across in a while.

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You misunderstand me. I was saying you can't have it both ways.

People seem to be able to simultaneously hold that Russia is bad and the West is good, at the same time, when both behave in exactly the same ways. Perhaps we should assume that both are well motivated and sincere. Perhaps we should assume that both are not. But to hold that one is well motivated while the other is not, for acting in the same ways, isn't particularly self aware.

If you are able to see cynical motivations for what Russia, fair enough. But then you should be able to see the possibility of cynical motivations for what the West does too. If you are able to see positive motivations for what the West does, fair enough. But then then you should be able to see the possibility of positive motivations for what Russia did also.

If you can only see cynical motivations for one side, and only see positive motivations for another, when their actions are the same, then maybe you aren't looking at things very objectively. Maybe you are seeing what you want to see.

Triggaaar · Apr 11, 2019

symyjym said:
Why didn't you also quote Libya and Syria from my comment?

Because Iraq is something we're more in agreement on. Libya was in a terrible mess, and I don't think it was right for us to idly stand by. We also won't agree regarding Syria, where Russia have also interfered due to self-interest.

And your comment about wanting to hold all countries responsible to our "so called" decent standards? I am sure that you would have heard of the term "Practice what you preach" or maybe you are more familiar with "Do as I say, not as I do" school of psychology.

I hold both our country and other countries to standards, so I do practice what I preach.

Seasider78 · Apr 11, 2019

Pammys happy about the whole thing!

symyjym · Apr 11, 2019

Triggaaar said:
Because Iraq is something we're more in agreement on. Libya was in a terrible mess, and I don't think it was right for us to idly stand by. We also won't agree regarding Syria, where Russia have also interfered due to self-interest.

I hold both our country and other countries to standards, so I do practice what I preach.

Not you. Our country doesn't hold a itself to a decent standard and it doesn't practice what it preaches. Bombing countries into a democracy is an oxymoron. Are you one of the ones who thought Assad should have handed his military over to Al-Nusra or Al-Sham?

Saunders · Apr 11, 2019

dingodan said:
Your link doesn't show the statistic. I had to find it myself.

If the number of Ukranians who want to join NATO are of significance, then, in order to remain consistent, the number of Crimeans who want to join Russia must be also?

But those numbers were really not at issue anyway. I was pointing out that NATO expansion east has long been understood to be percieved by Russia to be a threat. So understood was this fact, that we even gave all the assurances detailed in my original post. So we always knew that expanding NATO east would result in diplomatic/military tension between the West and Russia. It's not a controversial point.

We've done it anyway, and what I was pointing out was that we don't acknowledge, at all, that this is the source of that tension.

If anyone doubts as to how serious Russia sees this expansion into Eastern Europe read up on Mackinders Heartland Theory (he who controls the Heartland controls the World). This theory has influenced strategic thinking in Europe both during and after the Cold War. There are some good youtube vids about it.

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