[News] New E10 Petrol Coming This Year, Is Your Car Compatible?

zefarelly · Jun 24, 2021

the sooner we get diesel off the roads the better IMO, horrible stuff. 3/4 of car buyers buy second hand, I guess there's still a question of used older reliability.

In our house we have been discussing it, an electric for the smaller 2nd car is most likely when it gets replaced, which will be in a year or two. we don't currently have a race tender/camper so not sure what the viable options are there, very few people make petrol or hybrid vans with enough oomph to tow a tonne.

GOM · Jun 24, 2021

zefarelly said:
As an aside, I've already earmarked one of my Lambrettas for electric conversion, as and when a kit arrives on the market that will give the range/performance for it to be useful to me. I have looked at doing it myslef, likewise converting a Cortina to electric, but frankly I can't be arsaed, I've had my fill of reinventing wheels the last 15 years!

I wouldn't bother with a DIY conversion especially for a car, it will cost more than a new Tesla to achieve anything worthwhile.

zefarelly · Jun 24, 2021

Audax said:
(Of course, I've already got solar on my roof which helps - during lockdown I can honestly say at least 75% of the miles I've done have been done "for free").

This should be compulsory for all EV/hybrids, its daft not to do it IMO

GOM · Jun 24, 2021

zefarelly said:
I'mnot a doubter, but Hybrids will knock off fossil fuel before battery only does IMO, the tech is already out there proven and sustainable. . . . fully electric won't be the majority for a while yet.

I'm not sure how a hybrid will knock off fossil fuel since it uses fossil fuel other than a few miles of electric use.

WATFORD zero · Jun 24, 2021

Our two regular cars will be ok but my mid life crisis car won't be able to use it, so they are going to continue to sell the good* stuff :shrug:

As has been said with the fast approaching world of hybrid and electric is it worth the hassle ?

* I have been advised by a recent poster on this thread that I'm allowed to use the term goodish, not good

beorhthelm · Jun 24, 2021

zefarelly said:
This should be compulsory for all EV/hybrids, its daft not to do it IMO

compulsory solar? thats not going to work so well for those in flats or without the space for enough solar (and battery store), or those of us at higher latitudes or with seasons. its a nice idea in principle, just adds costs to car ownership. we may end up going down this path, with personal vehicles being the preserve of the wealthy.

beorhthelm · Jun 24, 2021

GOM said:
I'm not sure how a hybrid will knock off fossil fuel since it uses fossil fuel other than a few miles of electric use.

in theory you could make a far more efficient petrol or diesel engine running at continuous rpm to generate electricity. sure still uses fossil fuels but this might be a more practical solution if we accept we dont need to get to 0 emissions to make a meaningful impact.

Audax · Jun 24, 2021

beorhthelm said:
in theory you could make a far more efficient petrol or diesel engine running at continuous rpm to generate electricity. sure still uses fossil fuels but this might be a more practical solution if we accept we dont need to get to 0 emissions to make a meaningful impact.

Given that Toyota have chosen to put a lot of their eggs into Hydrogen fuel cell rather than electric and are only arriving in the full electric market quite late, I wouldn't be surprised to see a hybrid fuel cell / electric solution along those lines. In a similar way that current hybrids are helping bridge the gap while electric infrastructure is improved, a fuel cell / electric hybrid could bridge the gap until fuel cell infrastructure improves. The other option is that fuel cell dies out as EV takes off, but I have a feeling that runs the risk of the (long term) weaker technology winning.

Shropshire Seagull · Jun 24, 2021

zefarelly said:
for racing we use real stuff. It aint cheap, but you get a big bang for your buck

tree huggers, look away now!

https://aaoil.co.uk/product-category/racing-fuel/

When I raced high-performance two-stroke bikes back in the late 70's and 80's I recall that unleaded petrol became the norm and getting the old 4-star leaded fuel was a challenge as it was no longer available from mainstream service stations.
To avoid piston detonation [and other expensive engine damage] we used to buy aviation fuel [AV-GAS] from Shoreham Airport [highest lead content fuel available] and I also dabbled with "octane booster" fuel additive.

Of course, back then, I don't think global warming had been invented [detected] and Greta's mum wasn't even a twinkle in Greta's Grandfather's eye ....

Shropshire Seagull · Jun 24, 2021

beorhthelm said:
in theory you could make a far more efficient petrol or diesel engine running at continuous rpm to generate electricity. sure still uses fossil fuels but this might be a more practical solution if we accept we dont need to get to 0 emissions to make a meaningful impact.

Indeed, diesel-electric trains have been in common use for years.
Note sure if weight becomes an issue trying to adapt this into a car?

Shropshire Seagull · Jun 24, 2021

Can you still claim an all-electric car is "zero emission" if the electricity used to charge-up it's battery is coming [in part] from a fossil-fuelled [or nuclear] power station?

beorhthelm · Jun 24, 2021

Audax said:
Given that Toyota have chosen to put a lot of their eggs into Hydrogen fuel cell rather than electric and are only arriving in the full electric market quite late, I wouldn't be surprised to see a hybrid fuel cell / electric solution along those lines. In a similar way that current hybrids are helping bridge the gap while electric infrastructure is improved, a fuel cell / electric hybrid could bridge the gap until fuel cell infrastructure improves. The other option is that fuel cell dies out as EV takes off, but I have a feeling that runs the risk of the (long term) weaker technology winning.

problem with hydrogen is it cames with worse infrastructure problems, and getting fuel cells out to scale - is there enough catalyst materials in the world, or an alternative catalyst (used to be platinum based). most alternatives work best for centralised distribution, ie buses, lorries, but less well for individual personal vehicles. it would be better to adopt policy to reflect strengths and weaknesses rather than single approach that will lose badly in some areas.

zefarelly · Jun 24, 2021

solar powered panels on the car I was referring to, not a field full next to the house.

Hybrids offer the best com[promise to my mind. my 25 mile commute involves 2 slow town sections, IF I had a hybrid with a 25 mile range great, I could charge it at work, however, I could be squeaky clean through Worthing & Arundel and ultra efficient petrol on the dual carriageway out of town. those 70mph cruising sections, even an Alfa Romeo does nigh on 50 MPG

zefarelly · Jun 24, 2021

Shropshire Seagull said:
When I raced high-performance two-stroke bikes back in the late 70's and 80's I recall that unleaded petrol became the norm and getting the old 4-star leaded fuel was a challenge as it was no longer available from mainstream service stations.
To avoid piston detonation [and other expensive engine damage] we used to buy aviation fuel [AV-GAS] from Shoreham Airport [highest lead content fuel available] and I also dabbled with "octane booster" fuel additive.

Of course, back then, I don't think global warming had been invented [detected] and Greta's mum wasn't even a twinkle in Greta's Grandfather's eye ....

It was the same when I started racing old cars . . . now we can buy proper stuff. I learnt a lot about engine tuning and retuning to get the best out of what was available.

getting good power and high efficiency out of old turds is a challenge, making them stay together with recycled piss is another one.

give people 105 octane leaded and you can really tune things up ;-)

Audax · Jun 24, 2021

zefarelly said:
solar powered panels on the car I was referring to, not a field full next to the house.

Hybrids offer the best com[promise to my mind. my 25 mile commute involves 2 slow town sections, IF I had a hybrid with a 25 mile range great, I could charge it at work, however, I could be squeaky clean through Worthing & Arundel and ultra efficient petrol on the dual carriageway out of town. those 70mph cruising sections, even an Alfa Romeo does nigh on 50 MPG

My Prius hybrid (nearing 5 years old now, was one of the early deliveries of the current 2016+ generation) doing my A22-M25-M4-Uxbridge commute, if I drove really carefully I could push it up to 83mpg. As a so-called self-charging hybrid (oh how I hate that phrasing, makes it sound like a virtue that it can't be plugged in...) I was still getting 30-35% journey time running on electric with a little care and attention despite most of my running being on the motorway.

One of the "gotchas" with EV's that still needs to be solved is cold weather range. Even the Prius, in the depths of winter my MPG would drop from the low 80's in mid summer to mid/high 60's. But that's still a Prius (family size "hatchback") delivering the same mpg as my previous little Aygo was getting. Or my GSX1250FA Suzuki gets. But I'm already seeing the same with my Zoe. When it's been hot, the reported range for the around-town driving I've been doing (local to Uckfield for school run, Lewes for groceries, odd trip to Seaford for beach / Eastbourne for covid jab) it's been estimating roughly 200 miles from a full battery, at 4.3 or 4.4 kw/mile. I know in mid-winter it's a lot worse than that. I left home with 100% battery and did a trip up to the office and forgot to turn off the scheduled charging so despite plugging in at the office got no charge. Return home via a stop in Ascot for drive-in cinema Christmas thingy, and it was squeaky bum time by the time I got to J8 on the M25. Forgot to note down the actual miles done that day, but I'd estimate the actual range was more like 150 miles - and that was having engaged the Eco mode on the M25 and therefore being pinned at 62mph top speed.

GOM · Jun 26, 2021

Shropshire Seagull said:
Can you still claim an all-electric car is "zero emission" if the electricity used to charge-up it's battery is coming [in part] from a fossil-fuelled [or nuclear] power station?

Not in totality but at the point of use yes. Electricity is also used in vast amounts to produce oil/petrol/diesel as well, see the video, it is interesting.

https://youtu.be/1oVrIHcdxjA

jackanada · Jun 26, 2021

Audax said:
My Prius hybrid (nearing 5 years old now, was one of the early deliveries of the current 2016+ generation) doing my A22-M25-M4-Uxbridge commute, if I drove really carefully I could push it up to 83mpg. As a so-called self-charging hybrid (oh how I hate that phrasing, makes it sound like a virtue that it can't be plugged in...) I was still getting 30-35% journey time running on electric with a little care and attention despite most of my running being on the motorway.

One of the "gotchas" with EV's that still needs to be solved is cold weather range. Even the Prius, in the depths of winter my MPG would drop from the low 80's in mid summer to mid/high 60's. But that's still a Prius (family size "hatchback") delivering the same mpg as my previous little Aygo was getting. Or my GSX1250FA Suzuki gets. But I'm already seeing the same with my Zoe. When it's been hot, the reported range for the around-town driving I've been doing (local to Uckfield for school run, Lewes for groceries, odd trip to Seaford for beach / Eastbourne for covid jab) it's been estimating roughly 200 miles from a full battery, at 4.3 or 4.4 kw/mile. I know in mid-winter it's a lot worse than that. I left home with 100% battery and did a trip up to the office and forgot to turn off the scheduled charging so despite plugging in at the office got no charge. Return home via a stop in Ascot for drive-in cinema Christmas thingy, and it was squeaky bum time by the time I got to J8 on the M25. Forgot to note down the actual miles done that day, but I'd estimate the actual range was more like 150 miles - and that was having engaged the Eco mode on the M25 and therefore being pinned at 62mph top speed.

Did you turn the heating on? Because that's eating battery. It's not like there's a ton of waste heart from combustion you can reuse.

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[News] New E10 Petrol Coming This Year, Is Your Car Compatible?

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