[Misc] Covid jabs and prioritising

dejavuatbtn · Jan 21, 2021

Personally I think they’ve got it right for once. It’s not something they can easily change now it’s underway. Supply and distribution seems to be the big issue and this isn’t so much down to the government.
Keep the old ‘uns out of hospital and ensure there is room for the few younger ones that have an unforeseen bad reaction, and to those who need urgent care for other issues like cancer etc.
Whilst I understand the call for teachers, police etc to get the jab sooner, the chances of them having complications with Covid are less unless they are in the vulnerable categories, in which case they will be done in turn.
Fingers crossed people will be sensible and follow the rules until we are told we can return to the new normal.

dazzer6666 · Jan 21, 2021

Notters said:
Maybe, but immunising people who mix with more people would reduce the r-rate much quicker surely?

........as long as you could ensure they didn't go and see their wealthy grandparents who'd been shunted down the queue............

Stumpy Tim · Jan 21, 2021

Simster said:
I wouldn't vaccinate teachers so that kids can go back to school. I'd vaccinate teachers because they are currently exposed to the kids of NHS workers, so are at high risk themselves.

Yes I agree with that. It's the rush to get the kids back that I don't agree with

dazzer6666 · Jan 21, 2021

Simster said:
I did wonder if someone would pull me up for that, and I accept we're dealing in very broad brush strokes by measuring with mortgage size. However, as I've pointed out, that doesn't appear to be a problem for your way of thinking when dealing with age. I don't accept that mortgage size is difficult to administer. You just walk into the doctors with a mortgage statement from the past 6 months. Simple.

So if I'm a wealthy fund manager with a half million pound mortgage in my 40s (on my £2 million house), I wander into the docs, flash my statement and get priority over a couple in their 80s who own their own house but are far more likely to die if they catch it and haven't been able to see their grandkids in months ? Even though I've been perfectly able to work from home for the last year ?

Just playing devil's advocate - it's a good debate BTW

Sheebo · Jan 21, 2021

maffew said:
Its an interesting discussion. And surely if its the "at risk" categories prioritised first, ie those who may become seriousy ill/occupy hospital beds, then people from black, asian/minority backgrounds should be further ahead in the queue?

No - I believe in equality :lol:

#BLM and all that

Weststander · Jan 21, 2021

dejavuatbtn said:
Personally I think they’ve got it right for once. It’s not something they can easily change now it’s underway. Supply and distribution seems to be the big issue and this isn’t so much down to the government.
Keep the old ‘uns out of hospital and ensure there is room for the few younger ones that have an unforeseen bad reaction, and to those who need urgent care for other issues like cancer etc.
Whilst I understand the call for teachers, police etc to get the jab sooner, the chances of them having complications with Covid are less unless they are in the vulnerable categories, in which case they will be done in turn.
Fingers crossed people will be sensible and follow the rules until we are told we can return to the new normal.

Excellent points.

The vax programme has been so successful, the pharma companies (with their multi safeguards before releasing batches) are finding that all stocks are taken and administered straight away.

yxee · Jan 21, 2021

Avoiding deaths important but also key in this is keeping hospitals open for other urgent medical needs (young and old). Young people will be safer with an A&E that can accept them which is more likely if older people gets jabs first.

Neville's Breakfast · Jan 21, 2021

maffew said:
Its an interesting discussion. And surely if its the "at risk" categories prioritised first, ie those who may become seriousy ill/occupy hospital beds, then people from black, asian/minority backgrounds should be further ahead in the queue?

Even if that were desirable I’m not sure it would be possible. Form questions on race, gender etc tend to be optional and there is usually a guarantee that the answers will only be used for statistical purposes. Where I would agree is adding black people with Sickle Cell anaemia to the vulnerable list if it hasn’t already happened.

PeterOut · Jan 21, 2021

So, I have I got this right?

A 25 year old teacher gets the vaccine before anyone* over the age of 75?

Despite the fact that the 75 year old is many times more likely to die than the 25 year old (who will most likely get mild symptoms, if any)?

And that even if the 75 y.o. does not die, they will possibly tie up huge number of resources (medically and financially) while being treated?

Which the 25 year old will end up paying for?

On what moral, financial or other criteria does this make sense?

I'm baffled :shrug:

*(Possibly not anyone - you have to pass a means test first to find out whether you have a mortgage, pay rent, or are financially supporting many younger members of your family.)

Harry Wilson's tackle · Jan 21, 2021

Weststander said:
My parents are in their early 80's, my Dad has an additional risk factor. They're desparate to get their vax's, other than an early morning bike ride when no one's about, they're virtually prisoners at home. They want to live so have spent the last 10+ months doing things by the book. But they miss getting a take away coffee, having a browse round Brighton city centre, trips to a garden centre and seeing family.

I think the UK have got this spot on. Working down the age groups.

This has not been at the expense of NHS staff. Family of mine working at Worthing Hospital in their 40's have been vaccinated as have 70% of all staff, they're on course for 100% assuming that pandemic deniers don't work for the NHS!

This must shirley mean that in this third lockdown, cancer treatment etc is far more likely.

I think the right balance has been struck, in an inevitably imperfect world.

The economy and other aspects of society hit hard, unfortunately, have to take second stage to saving 10,000's, possibly a 100,000, lives of the over 65's.

Imho.

Spot on.

Anyone (staff or students) where I work in London can get a vaccination in a day or two, or even on the day, because I work at a teaching hospital/university. My office is in a hospital. I've not been jabbed though because the travel into London to do it would be foolish. I'll work at home and wait my turn for a local jab.

One brother who has just turned 60 and works with illegal immigrants has had a jab, as has his missus who is a breast cancer screeing nurse.

I think it is being rolled out sensibly, and I can't argue with Priti Patel when she pointed out today that our programme and implementation are the best available worldwide (score points when you are entitled, why not?).

Notters · Jan 21, 2021

Stumpy Tim said:
Yes I agree with that. It's the rush to get the kids back that I don't agree with

My daughter (5) is fortunately going to school two days a week as my wife is a key worker but she's still really suffering. She's not eating properly, she won't sleep, she's miserable, she's anxious. I'm really worried this is going to have a permanent damaging effect on her personality and her mental health. That's why.

Notters · Jan 21, 2021

PeterOut said:
So, I have I got this right?

A 25 year old teacher gets the vaccine before anyone* over the age of 75?

Despite the fact that the 75 year old is many times more likely to die than the 25 year old (who will most likely get mild symptoms, if any)?

And that even if the 75 y.o. does not die, they will possibly tie up huge number of resources (medically and financially) while being treated?

Which the 25 year old will end up paying for?

On what moral, financial or other criteria does this make sense?

I'm baffled

*(Possibly not anyone - you have to pass a means test first to find out whether you have a mortgage, pay rent, or are financially supporting many younger members of your family.)

But it's far far far more complicated than that.

For example, if a 25 year old is 10x as likely to catch it and half as likely to see a 75 year old than a 75 year old then they are 5x more likely to get a 75 year old ill in the first place.

In a similar way the government has decided to give as many people as possible one dose, but are being criticised for this by the people that have only had one and would've had two.

I'm not for a minute suggesting that the government have got it wrong, just that the ideas on this thread are are too simplistic. There is very little data so far on how much the vaccines affect transmisability which is also vital to this decision.

vegster · Jan 21, 2021

My company, a major High Street store I can not name, has a loose affiliation with frontline care, they have lobbied the government to get their staff labelled as " Key Workers " despite it only being a threadbare link to proper healthcare.... We have started being advised where to go for " Availability " of vaccine jabs but told not to go on a day when we are on the rota to work..... I'm currently furloughed and my directors are recommending vacine hubs in Eastbourne and Guildford.... although I live in Worthing !
I feel I should not have the vaccine until the lowliest NHS staff member or public service worker has had theirs before me. So, I face a 60 or 90 mile round trip out of my own pocket when I'm not really deserving of a prioritised jab... Feeling shit.

jessiejames · Jan 21, 2021

The problem I have is who is a key worker. I am delivering to food preparation factories and Pharmaceuticals including Pfizer in Sandwhich also other co.panties and industry, should I be prioritised? I think leaving it how it is he best way forward. Looking at some of the company's I am delivering to, makes me wonder why are they open.
On 5 live yesterday an estate agent was demanding that they should be prioritised, due to the amount of viewings they are getting asked for. sorry but moving house or looking to view a house whilst this is going on is ****ing stupid. What part of stay at home do these people not understand.

dazzer6666 · Jan 21, 2021

Notters said:
But it's far far far more complicated than that.

For example, if a 25 year old is 10x as likely to catch it and half as likely to see a 75 year old than a 75 year old then they are 5x more likely to get a 75 year old ill in the first place.

In a similar way the government has decided to give as many people as possible one dose, but are being criticised for this by the people that have only had one and would've had two.

I'm not for a minute suggesting that the government have got it wrong, just that the ideas on this thread are are too simplistic. There is very little data so far on how much the vaccines affect transmisability which is also vital to this decision.

Think there’s a difference between a 25 yo teacher and another non-keyworker 25 yo. We want the teacher near the top of the queue so the schools can be reopened, so IMO teachers should be the 5th group (after the current 15m - meaning in reality they’ll be started on v soon). Teachers are likely exposed to a much much higher viral load from dozens of kid’s carrying it and not practicing social distancing or good hygiene.

Paulie Gualtieri · Jan 21, 2021

jessiejames said:
The problem I have is who is a key worker. I am delivering to food preparation factories and Pharmaceuticals including Pfizer in Sandwhich also other co.panties and industry, should I be prioritised? I think leaving it how it is he best way forward. Looking at some of the company's I am delivering to, makes me wonder why are they open.
On 5 live yesterday an estate agent was demanding that they should be prioritised, due to the amount of viewings they are getting asked for. sorry but moving house or looking to view a house whilst this is going on is ****ing stupid. What part of stay at home do these people not understand.

I thought the rules of everything insist that Estate Agents and Traffic Wardens go last?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Iggle Piggle · Jan 21, 2021

A quarter of patients being admitted to hospital are under 55 and 75% in ICU are under 70. Pressure on hospitals won't ease anytime soon - albeit the infection rate is dropping which will do so - as the sheer numbers infected in middle age are so much higher and causing so many hospital admissions.

If you want to drop the death rate amongst the elderly we are doing the right thing. There is a strong argument to suggest we aren't protecting the NHS with the current strategy though. Personal view is that Key workers should be higher up the priority list

[TWEET]1350747802083741696[/TWEET]

jessiejames · Jan 21, 2021

London Black Cab said:
I thought the rules of everything insist that Estate Agents and Traffic Wardens go last?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Should be. I would vote for that.

dazzer6666 · Jan 21, 2021

Iggle Piggle said:
A quarter of patients being admitted to hospital are under 55 and 75% in ICU are under 70. Pressure on hospitals won't ease anytime soon - albeit the infection rate is dropping which will do so - as the sheer numbers infected in middle age are so much higher and causing so many hospital admissions.

If you want to drop the death rate amongst the elderly we are doing the right thing. There is a strong argument to suggest we aren't protecting the NHS with the current strategy though. Personal view is that Key workers should be higher up the priority list

[TWEET]1350747802083741696[/TWEET]

Quite a number of the O70s (particularly the O80s) would never make it to ICU........and if they did would never make it out, so the numbers aren’t really surprising.

beorhthelm · Jan 21, 2021

no need to debate teachers going after the vulnerable groups and NHS, there's about half a million of them, they'll be done in 2 days. and then schools can open, which would help many people a great deal.

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