[Politics] Labour has suspended former leader Jeremy Corbyn

Hampster Gull · Oct 29, 2020

Unelectable leftie looney leader, no surprises Kier is trying to get him and his gang out of the party

GT49er · Oct 29, 2020

Pavilionaire said:
Let's see where the Conservative party is in 4 years time when their chickens will come home to roost.

Yep, where will they be? In the shit up to their knees quite possibly, but still in a better place than the totally irrelevant - and as good as defunct - Lib Dem party, I would think.

peterward · Oct 29, 2020

jcdenton08 said:
I'm not sure if this is facetious but it is what I and I'm sure many others actually want.

When election time comes, I will certainly look very closely at Labour policy and may well be persuaded to vote for them. I didn't like Ed Milliband, more as a person tbh...... and the crazy lurch to the extreme left under Corbyn, was un-electable.

Whatever anybody says about New Labour, they got a lot more correct in where the party needs to be, to be a party of power.

The anchor must be dropped near the centre to carry the country, the policy positions can then move from centre to left. But stick the anchor on the left fringes of the political spectrum and whilst you will appeal to die hard socialists, you will never be a party of government, as the majority are left and right of the middle ground.

Hu_Camus · Oct 29, 2020

Green Cross Code Man said:
That's pretty much what they are doing already isn't it or am I missing something?

Well yes, if you believe the Party can ex-communicate both the Far Left and the Blue Labour/ Eurosceptic tendency.
...So same make-up as the last election that left the Tories sitting on an 80 seat majority - only now they've pissed off the most active elements on the left too.
Some reboot.
As for the Libdems they've lost the Eurosceptic left for a generation, alongside the typically pro Europe Far Left who regard them as closet Tories.
And in consequence, Bojo is untouchable, no matter what fùckup goes down.
Jeez its like a bad Orwell plot.

BenGarfield · Oct 29, 2020

Deportivo Seagull said:
For all the issues I have with corbyn I don’t believe he is a anti-Semitic. However his failure to address the vocal minority who were was inexcusable.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Can you give me an example of a member of the labour party who was vocally anti-semitic?

johanngull · Oct 29, 2020

BenGarfield said:
Can you give me an example of a member of the labour party who was vocally anti-semitic?

Are you saying that no members of the Labour Party have been anti-Semitic during the very public debate of anti semitism in the Labour party over the past few years?

Weststander · Oct 30, 2020

BenGarfield said:
Can you give me an example of a member of the labour party who was vocally anti-semitic?

For starters, look up the musings and retweets of Labour officials and candidates Pam Bromley, Lesley Anne Perrin, Virginia Keyes and Roy Smart. Questioning minor matters such as whether 6m jews really died in the Holocaust, praising Icke’s view on the Rothschilds being behind the murderous control of us all through the Illuminati and this pleasant tweet.

BenGarfield · Oct 30, 2020

johanngull said:
Are you saying that no members of the Labour Party have been anti-Semitic during the very public debate of anti semitism in the Labour party over the past few years?

No Im just asking for an example - simple question. If anti-semitism is so widespread in the labour party it should be an easy one to answer

jcdenton08 · Oct 30, 2020

peterward said:
When election time comes, I will certainly look very closely at Labour policy and may well be persuaded to vote for them. I didn't like Ed Milliband, more as a person tbh...... and the crazy lurch to the extreme left under Corbyn, was un-electable.

Whatever anybody says about New Labour, they got a lot more correct in where the party needs to be, to be a party of power.

The anchor must be dropped near the centre to carry the country, the policy positions can then move from centre to left. But stick the anchor on the left fringes of the political spectrum and whilst you will appeal to die hard socialists, you will never be a party of government, as the majority are left and right of the middle ground.

Exactly my thoughts.

jcdenton08 · Oct 30, 2020

Weststander said:
A similar view here. I first voted Labour in 1997 for several reasons to do with my personal beliefs on certain issues and because the Labour Party had become genuinely pragmatic and centrist economically.

A rocky road ahead as the large numbers of hard left who were drawn to the party in recent years might not take this lying down. I expect social media and fake news (thankfully I don’t do twatter or facebook) will now feature smear campaigns against Starmer and co for years to come. Will they try and deselect the likes of Peter Kyle?

I view a strong LP under Starmer in 2024 an attractive possibility, without wishing my life away

If nothing just to put pressure on the Tories. There's no competition, no prospect of competition. 4 years to sort their house out basically.

As for Peter Kyle... he's an MP by virtue of a smart native campaign. I don't think he has any relevance or importance in Westminster. Should just be a good boy now and follow the whip quietly.

clapham_gull · Oct 30, 2020

BenGarfield said:
No Im just asking for an example - simple question. If anti-semitism is so widespread in the labour party it should be an easy one to answer

It's a wider issue than the Labour party, left wing antisemitism has been around for years. I understand totally why that can be difficult to compute because antisemitism is "rightly" and usually associated with far right wing views.

Unfortunately there appears to have been a bit of sense of "I can't believe that happened here" taking place. Same thing has happened in institutions such as The Church and major charities who have all had to deal recently with their own scandals and denial.

Unfortunately the perfectly reasonable criticism of Israel Foreign Policy (which is a completely different issue) has also been used to deflect the issue.

You've then got age old conspiracy theories about bankers and new world order that been embraced by a few who then decided to join the Labour Party.

In my opinion this is just something that happens when a political party suddenly promises "a new kind of politics" and receives a sudden influx of members.

However the Labour party is a well established political force in this country and should know better. It frankly took it's eye of the ball.

The Conservative Party quite obviously deserves criticism, but has suffered less because if you have extreme views there have alternative more right wing viable political parties to join.

*Gullsworth* · Oct 30, 2020

Gwylan said:
Who said I did? I haven't voted Labour at GE for many years.

As I said earlier, my personal view is that a lot of the stuff said about Corbyn was exaggerated. I certainly don't think he's an anti-semite, nor do I see him as hard-left - the Labour party manifesto was perfectly mainstream European social democracy BUT I do agree with Harry Wilson Tackle's assessment that he certainly hung around with some dodgy people and he was a weak leader who allowed claims of anti-semitism to fester.

And I think his response to the report is poor. A responsible leader would have taken it on board and said something like "It's good that the report found that the Labour Party isn't institutionally anti-semitic because I don't believe it us but it does highlight some severe shortcomings, mainly under my leadership. It's clearly not acceptable for the party to break the law and I regret that I didn't act quickly enough to deal some anti-semitic elements within the party.

"I'm pleased that the report does state that there are improvements in the process and some of the changes that I instituted are having an effect. There is no place in the Labour Party for racism of any sort and I welcome this report's role in highlighting where we failed."

Very good summary of Corbyn & what his response should have been. Unfortunately he will always be known by the labels his opponents have given him.

Chicken Run · Oct 30, 2020

jcdenton08 said:
I voted for Clegg almost solely based on the promises he repeatedly made about tuition fees.

I had decided to go to university as a mature student, and it was these promises and his election which confirmed my decision to study, with all the consequences that has subsequently brought financially for what is likely to be a huge portion of my life now and in the future.

Whilst this "relatively minor first offence" may not have affected you personally, it has affected me personally and on a more immediate basis than any political decision made in my lifetime to date. It has directly cost me upwards of 10's of thousands of pounds. One decision, based on a minor first offence, which will prove life altering financially.

Additionally, lots of people who voted Lib in that election were the youth vote. I.e people who are more likely to go into higher education and be directly affected by the broken promise whichever got them into government.

If I was voting for the first time and my first ever vote cost me £30k, I don't think I'd be jumping at the chance to vote for them again.

Finally, just because something is relatively minor to you, it can be absolutely enormous to a whole demographic that didn't occur to you. in this case, it happened to the core demographic of Lib support. An entire generation of people who will now never consider voting Lib again.

I can only imagine what it must be like to be in debt as a result of false promises, one question though, did you really expect Nick Clegg to win an election in 2010 and base what sounds like your financial stability on that?

Second question, he wasn’t PM in April of that year which means you would have either already been a “mature student “ or you would have already started your application no?

Either way it sounds to me like you were already in the system pre GE2010.

Deleted member 2719 · Oct 30, 2020

Gwylan said:
Who said I did? I haven't voted Labour at GE for many years.

As I said earlier, my personal view is that a lot of the stuff said about Corbyn was exaggerated. I certainly don't think he's an anti-semite, nor do I see him as hard-left - the Labour party manifesto was perfectly mainstream European social democracy BUT I do agree with Harry Wilson Tackle's assessment that he certainly hung around with some dodgy people and he was a weak leader who allowed claims of anti-semitism to fester.

And I think his response to the report is poor. A responsible leader would have taken it on board and said something like "It's good that the report found that the Labour Party isn't institutionally anti-semitic because I don't believe it us but it does highlight some severe shortcomings, mainly under my leadership. It's clearly not acceptable for the party to break the law and I regret that I didn't act quickly enough to deal some anti-semitic elements within the party.

"I'm pleased that the report does state that there are improvements in the process and some of the changes that I instituted are having an effect. There is no place in the Labour Party for racism of any sort and I welcome this report's role in highlighting where we failed."

Sorry I thought from your posts you had to be a labour supporter.

Snap poll says, 41% of labour voters agree with the decision.

Wow, just shows how many hard left supporters still exist, could you get more division within the party?

Like I said earlier in this thread it's time for them to scrap the party and rebrand.

The damage and division will forever be there.

The tories do need a party that can challenge them, Keirs new pretence won't wash with the public IMO.

Guinness Boy · Oct 30, 2020

Mouldy Boots said:
So are still on team Corbyn then?

That wasn't what I asked you.

I've never been on team Corbyn. Can't stand the guy.

Hampster Gull · Oct 30, 2020

Another move from the Labour Party towards becoming a more credible party. I’m hoping Kier keeps this going over the next 4 years. A new Labojr version will be a great alternative to this relatively talentless cluster **** of a Tory cabinet

Ooh it’s a corner · Oct 30, 2020

Hampster Gull said:
Another move from the Labour Party towards becoming a more credible party. I’m hoping Kier keeps this going over the next 4 years. A new Labojr version will be a great alternative to this relatively talentless cluster **** of a Tory cabinet

I think the word relatively is unnecessary!!

Guinness Boy · Oct 30, 2020

clapham_gull said:
It's a wider issue than the Labour party, left wing antisemitism has been around for years. I understand totally why that can be difficult to compute because antisemitism is "rightly" and usually associated with far right wing views.

Unfortunately there appears to have been a bit of sense of "I can't believe that happened here" taking place. Same thing has happened in institutions such as The Church and major charities who have all had to deal recently with their own scandals and denial.

Unfortunately the perfectly reasonable criticism of Israel Foreign Policy (which is a completely different issue) has also been used to deflect the issue.

You've then got age old conspiracy theories about bankers and new world order that been embraced by a few who then decided to join the Labour Party.

In my opinion this is just something that happens when a political party suddenly promises "a new kind of politics" and receives a sudden influx of members.

However the Labour party is a well established political force in this country and should know better. It frankly took it's eye of the ball.

The Conservative Party quite obviously deserves criticism, but has suffered less because if you have extreme views there have alternative more right wing viable political parties to join.

Gwylan said:
And I think his response to the report is poor. A responsible leader would have taken it on board and said something like "It's good that the report found that the Labour Party isn't institutionally anti-semitic because I don't believe it us but it does highlight some severe shortcomings, mainly under my leadership. It's clearly not acceptable for the party to break the law and I regret that I didn't act quickly enough to deal some anti-semitic elements within the party.

"I'm pleased that the report does state that there are improvements in the process and some of the changes that I instituted are having an effect. There is no place in the Labour Party for racism of any sort and I welcome this report's role in highlighting where we failed."

Two very good posts. Firstly, what the problem is and secondly, how Corbyn should have reacted.

BadFish · Oct 30, 2020

Pavilionaire said:
We still do have a decent Liberal Party but it was hung out to dry 9 years ago for the tuition fees fiasco. A life sentence for a relatively minor first offence, whilst the Tories get away with murder on a daily basis.

Perhaps it is not the quality of the parties that are the problem?

People seem intent of voting Tory whatever the weather.

What are the ruling classes there for if not to rule?

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Hampster Gull · Oct 30, 2020

Ooh it’s a corner said:
I think the word relatively is unnecessary!!

Good point :thumbsup:

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