[Brighton] New cycle lane a259 Brighton

Madafwo said:

I'll try and check it out on my way to work today, I did see parts of it on my way home last night but I ended up going along the cycle lane on Maderia Drive instead as I usually go along the undercliff walk when it's quiet.

Do we know where the most easterly point of this new lane is meant to be? I was riding along the A259 yesterday but from Lower Rock Gardens the traffic was at a standstill so couldn't actually get to the new lane which kind of negates the point.

I could theoretically ride to work every day but in reality that just isn't feasible and coming from Peacehaven I don't really have many options of what route to take when I do have to take the car.

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A mex eyecan said:

and there could be some possibilities in that Stato, but it’s not the complete answer. There are several areas where it falls flat.

let’s start with a typical day where a given supplier has to send delivery lorries into town. Let’s talk about a dray sized lorry, making multiple, 23-35 deliveries a day. so there are huge time restriction as you could get them all done before 10.

you have to take into account the opening hours of the customers. Our customer based is very varied as are so many other businesses.

Many customers have restrictions as to when you are allowed to deliver

So let’s say they Drive to Brighton, start the earliest deliveries that their customer base affords, let’s say the earliest is 7.30, of which there are very few. in those two and a half hours they may get say 10 deliveries done, if they do well. What do they now do with the remaining 20?

The amount of deliveries they can do per hour is reducing, particularly now with the idiotic restrictions placed around the lanes, including removing a few loading bays and reducing the width of the road. It’s proving that frequently they arrive to where they need to deliver and find another lorry there, they have to go off and try and find somewhere else. So that particular council policy has now started to increase pollution.

So, back to the residual 20 drops, I assume that as they have not been allowed to drive into town between 10 they now have to come back at 4. What would they do in between hours? where would they park up?

It’s now 4. They are now trying to deliver to restaurants, pubs, etc. Many of those do not want deliveries trundling through when they are open to customers, many don’t have access other than front doors.

Forgetting that, many customers close at 5, let’s say offices, doctors, etc. Not all have staff beyond those hours, neither do they have them before 9.

That means there’s a vast amount of customers where you would have an hour to deliver to inside these restricted permitted driving hours. All very well if you only have one or two, but if you’ve 8,9,10? Then add in that these are not all going to be next door to each other, may be Hove, Roedean, Cardenas, Laines, Preston. Moving between all of those takes time, and longer now since the amount of traffic lanes has been reduced.

Stato, I’m not picking an argument here, just trying to show a few, of many, logistical issues that these guys face daily.

I agree something has to change, but it’s not as simple as just banning vehicles or imposing restrictive hours. What is it? Lord knows and it’s a conundrum that’s going to take a lot of working together. The councils green utopian plan of just suck it up isn’t going to help, neither is either the cyclist lobby or the car driver making digging in and throwing ‘oh well tough’ statements at each other.

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Stat Brother said:

Change.

Sure the gammons chained to their cars won't ever change, threads on here prove that, loud and clear.

But everyone else won't just sit there 'yeah but, yeah but' they'll just get on and make it work just like:-

New York
Paris
LA
Miami
Vancouver
Delft
Utrecht
Bogota
Mexico City

and plenty of other cities lucky enough to not require deliveries.

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Guinness Boy said:

Never mind that, I'm hoping for THIS (although it may have to be socially distanced for a while)

View attachment 127150

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BN41Albion said:

All those cities have extensive alternative public transport networks across the city.

Your constant use the term 'gammon' to describe someone who uses a car is pathetic. Just because I think this idea is ludricous and ill thought out does not mean I'm all for a greener environment. My opinion is that this idea will make the environment worse because of the lack of alternative transport or routes for those who can't simply switch to using a bike. How do you not understand that?

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Stat Brother said:

There is no other way to describe those in this country who constantly block any kind of move away from their sacred car.

Do you know how many women car drivers I have got into an altercation with while cycling?
None.

Care to guess how many kids?
A few

Pensioners?
None

Middle aged white men with red faces and fat bellies?
95%


Just read every single cycling thread and cross reference it with Brexit et al.
All the negativity comes from the same place.


As said, I try to see both sides, after all I am a car driver.
I try to look for the common ground.
I try to ignore the blatant stupidity and rank hypocrisy.


Yet the bottom line is the Luddites can't cope with change and will do anything to stop it.


Occasionally there's light at the end of the tunnel.
Occasionally devote car drivers appear on 'geeks' extolling the virtues of there new found love of cycling.

Which is the whole point.

Build it and they will come.

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Guinness Boy said:

A dual carriageway that was already a two mile tailback during the school run? Idiotic.

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BN41Albion said:

All those cities have extensive alternative public transport networks across the city.

Your constant use the term 'gammon' to describe someone who uses a car is pathetic. Just because I think this idea is ludricous and ill thought out does not mean I'm all for a greener environment. My opinion is that this idea will make the environment worse because of the lack of alternative transport or routes for those who can't simply switch to using a bike. And that there is a major hospital just off the main road. How do you not understand that?

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Stat Brother said:

Change.

Sure the gammons chained to their cars won't ever change, threads on here prove that, loud and clear.

But everyone else won't just sit there 'yeah but, yeah but' they'll just get on and make it work just like:-

New York
Paris
LA
Miami
Vancouver
Delft
Utrecht
Bogota
Mexico City

and plenty of other cities lucky enough to not require deliveries.

Click to expand...

Stat Brother said:

There is no other way to describe those in this country who constantly block any kind of move away from their sacred car.

Do you know how many women car drivers I have got into an altercation with while cycling?
None.

Care to guess how many kids?
A few

Pensioners?
None

Middle aged white men with red faces and fat bellies?
95%


Just read every single cycling thread and cross reference it with Brexit et al.
All the negativity comes from the same place.


As said, I try to see both sides, after all I am a car driver.
I try to look for the common ground.
I try to ignore the blatant stupidity and rank hypocrisy.


Yet the bottom line is the Luddites can't cope with change and will do anything to stop it.


Occasionally there's light at the end of the tunnel.
Occasionally devote car drivers appear on 'geeks' extolling the virtues of there new found love of cycling.

Which is the whole point.

Build it and they will come.

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Stat Brother said:

The school run is THE journey that cars must be encouraged away from.

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A mex eyecan said:

Oh Stato,

even when anyone tries to highlight specific issues and concerned all you can so is come back with sarcastic retort. Gammons, your seemingly favourite put down just typifies the all the problems we face in trying to resolve,and ultimately find the change you and we all so desperately seek. Can’t you see that your I’m not listening put downs are as much of the problem of trying to find resolutions as the ‘gammon, your word not mine’ you so repeatedly insult.

I’ll pull out of trying any form of conversation with you on this subject, not because i don’t have have many other comments, thoughts and desire to help in finding resolve, but because I just give up talking to a wall.

All I would say is that I’ll follow the conversation with interest and look forward to you showing specific examples that these other cities actually do and implement, rather than just saying New York etc etc don’t have problems.

Not having ever visited any of them my not qualified to know, or indeed answer, so please do show them. I’m as keen as you to explore, and, if the are feasible, use systems and devices that help eliminate the mess we currently live with, So as I say above, I don’t know of them, I’d really genuinely like to see them, You though must know what they are so please do share.

As I say, not looking for any argument, I just joined a debate in order to try and put the other side problems and to help join with you and all other willing to have i put into finding solutions. I leave it none the wiser as I’ve not seen any systems, just heard more insults and generalists that Amsterdam don’t this Amsterdam do that.

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A mex eyecan said:

I agree something has to change, but it’s not as simple as just banning vehicles or imposing restrictive hours. What is it? Lord knows and it’s a conundrum that’s going to take a lot of working together. The councils green utopian plan of just suck it up isn’t going to help, neither is either the cyclist lobby or the car driver making digging in and throwing ‘oh well tough’ statements at each other.

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Guinness Boy said:

Again, I don't disagree but there are nuances, like anything in life, and the OSR in Hove and Portslade is one.

I walk my daughter to school up Church / Trafalgar Road and over the OSR. At that time of the morning that route is full of buses, vans and many, many lorries going to Shoreham Port. The pavement is narrow and the way the roundabout was done at Shelldale - supposedly to make things safer / greener - has turned that bit of it into a death trap for pedestrians.

Many choose to drive their kids up that road rather than walk and I can't blame them. Ostensibly it is safer. However, it's sometimes my daughter's only exercise of the day and you can at least go through Vale Park, the graveyard and Viccy Park to escape the worst bits if you don't mind it taking longer.

Cycling up that road would be tanamount to suicide and there is literally no room for a cycle path.

Now, if you're telling me that building a cycle lane a quarter of a mile away that reduces a dual carriageway going to Brighton to a single lane is going to stop steel / shipping lorries going to Shoreham Port in rush hour I'm not going to believe you.

I've seen Doris's dropping their little ones out of the back of a 4x4 when they live 200 yards away on the sidestreets, so I know where you're coming from, but battles need to be picked and with OSR the council have picked the wrong one.

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beorhthelm said:

other cities that impliment vehicle bans have exemptions for residents and deliveries, which is the obvious solution to this obvious problem. in this country for some reason we think you have to be all in, there can be no compromise, the motor vehicle must be prohibited.

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BN41Albion said:

You're clearly not prepared to listen to my points and others, who are also clearly not gammons by your definition, but people concerned pollution and traffic will worsen with this ill thought out, rushed through idea

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BN41Albion said:

I think one or two posts have mentioned the parties of the council...

It's a ridiculous idea that is going to cause snarled up traffic and much more pollution because its fanciful to think everyone will ditch cars and cycle when that's not an option for thousands and we don't have a decent public transport system to use instead to get across the city easily and quickly. That's all I'm concerned about

I read somewhere this is all supposed to be 'temporary'. Wtf, how does that work, and why?? Makes no sense to me

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A mex eyecan said:

Oh Stato,

even when anyone tries to highlight specific issues and concerned all you can so is come back with sarcastic retort. Gammons, your seemingly favourite put down just typifies the all the problems we face in trying to resolve,and ultimately find the change you and we all so desperately seek. Can’t you see that your I’m not listening put downs are as much of the problem of trying to find resolutions as the ‘gammon, your word not mine’ you so repeatedly insult.

I’ll pull out of trying any form of conversation with you on this subject, not because i don’t have have many other comments, thoughts and desire to help in finding resolve, but because I just give up talking to a wall.

All I would say is that I’ll follow the conversation with interest and look forward to you showing specific examples that these other cities actually do and implement, rather than just saying New York etc etc don’t have problems.

Not having ever visited any of them my not qualified to know, or indeed answer, so please do show them. I’m as keen as you to explore, and, if the are feasible, use systems and devices that help eliminate the mess we currently live with, So as I say above, I don’t know of them, I’d really genuinely like to see them, You though must know what they are so please do share.

As I say, not looking for any argument, I just joined a debate in order to try and put the other side problems and to help join with you and all other willing to have i put into finding solutions. I leave it none the wiser as I’ve not seen any systems, just heard more insults and generalists that Amsterdam don’t this Amsterdam do that.

Click to expand...