[News] Housing Crisis

Kalimantan Gull · Feb 24, 2020

goldstone said:
Papers, radio, TV all full of the housing crisis in the UK. We don't have a housing crisis, we have a population crisis. Far far too many people on our island and we just keep on concreting over the countryside and building more and more and more homes. Address the population crisis, not only in this country but worldwide, and we'd all be a lot better off.

Tim Over Whelmed said:
We have a lack of housing, however, we also have record levels of Air BnB etc properties, holiday homes, Pied de Terre's and second homes etc. We have record levels of city centre properties remaining empty as investment vehicles, there's a way to sort this, mainly through taxation, and I don't think anyone with the wealth to afford a holiday home or second home could object?

BLOCK F said:
Not enough houses being built, both for private sale and social housing, planning laws require overhaul, too many Nimby interests afoot, etc. etc.

Stat Brother said:
We don't have a housing, population or immigration crisis.

We have a government dealing with money crisis - nothing new there.

There's plenty of housing to go round.
Whether it be unoccupied streets in Middlesbrough available for £10k
Or
Unoccupied streets in London available for £10bn.

There's a 1001 ways to distribute wealth, chances are many are actually cheaper on 'us' than the current system.
But all the time we (very much myself included) live in 'I'm Alright Jack' world, nothing is ever going to change.

Yeah, we don't even have a housing crisis for our population. We have more bedrooms per head of population than ever before. That should mean a housing surplus, but everyone wants spare bedrooms and holiday homes and investment houses and so on.

What we have is an entitlement crisis, where everyone wants to live on their own in a 4-bed semi and not in traditional family units, or wants to have a spare room with pretty flowers on the window-sill rather than take in a lodger, or wants to make a quick buck through holiday lets.

Somehow though the argument always comes back to building more houses on our green spaces and floodplains, and which party is going to build the most

Bold Seagull · Feb 24, 2020

goldstone said:
Papers, radio, TV all full of the housing crisis in the UK. We don't have a housing crisis, we have a population crisis. Far far too many people on our island and we just keep on concreting over the countryside and building more and more and more homes. Address the population crisis, not only in this country but worldwide, and we'd all be a lot better off.

Population growth = good for economic growth.

UK votes for governments based on management of the economy and strong economic growth.

Address population growth and you will likely send the country into recession and be out of government.

We also have a negative birth rate and an ageing population all living longer. Without immigration this would be a huge burden on the public purse.

Unless by reducing population you're prepared to pay a lot more in tax and likely be a lot worse off.

Bakero · Feb 24, 2020

Tim Over Whelmed said:
We have a lack of housing, however, we also have record levels of Air BnB etc properties, holiday homes, Pied de Terre's and second homes etc. We have record levels of city centre properties remaining empty as investment vehicles, there's a way to sort this, mainly through taxation, and I don't think anyone with the wealth to afford a holiday home or second home could object?

You're right about the solution but you can bet your house on the fact that they'd complain. When Labour unveiled plans to implement what you suggest, it prompted stories like this: www.telegraph.co.uk/investing/buy-t...-buy-to-let-investors-second-home-owners/amp/ The Mail and Express were even hysterical, as you can imagine. The Times called it "a raid".

Of course, the fact that about half the Tory MPs (not to mention some Lib Dems and Labour) are landlords doesn't help. It wasn't long ago that they (the Cons) voted down a proposal to ensure rented homes were fit for human habitation.

raymondo · Feb 24, 2020

Tim Over Whelmed said:
We have a lack of housing, however, we also have record levels of Air BnB etc properties, holiday homes, Pied de Terre's and second homes etc. We have record levels of city centre properties remaining empty as investment vehicles, there's a way to sort this, mainly through taxation, and I don't think anyone with the wealth to afford a holiday home or second home could object?

Exactly this

beorhthelm · Feb 24, 2020

Kalimantan Gull said:
Yeah, we don't even have a housing crisis for our population. We have more bedrooms per head of population than ever before. That should mean a housing surplus, but everyone wants spare bedrooms and holiday homes and investment houses and so on.

maybe we should have a levy on the number of spare rooms in each dwelling?

i do know what you are getting at, the type of homes we have are not suitable for modern life. not going to change for another half generation or more, until then we could build some suitable housing.

BLOCK F · Feb 24, 2020

Kalimantan Gull said:
Yeah, we don't even have a housing crisis for our population. We have more bedrooms per head of population than ever before. That should mean a housing surplus, but everyone wants spare bedrooms and holiday homes and investment houses and so on.

What we have is an entitlement crisis, where everyone wants to live on their own in a 4-bed semi and not in traditional family units, or wants to have a spare room with pretty flowers on the window-sill rather than take in a lodger, or wants to make a quick buck through holiday lets.

Somehow though the argument always comes back to building more houses on our green spaces and floodplains, and which party is going to build the most

What a simplistic statement.
Why do you say we have an entitlement crisis?
Not everyone wants to live on their own in a 4 bed semi, but families with two or more children probably need 4 bedrooms and what is a traditional family unit?
Why the f--k should you have to take in a lodger if you don't want to? Or would you force people under a political edict, to take in somebody if they had a spare room?
Spare rooms are often occupied by returning offspring or friends and relatives when visiting the family home........what an awful thing to want to have the space to accommodate them!
'Everyone wants holiday homes and investment houses and so on.............generalistic tosh!

amexer · Feb 24, 2020

What about asking those in council accommodation who now have spare rooms to move to smaller units so there house can be used by those needing the extra room. Charge them extra if they wont move. Seems a good idea to me but think it is called by those that dont agree Bedroom Tax.

Kalimantan Gull · Feb 24, 2020

BLOCK F said:
What a simplistic statement.
Why do you say we have an entitlement crisis?
Not everyone wants to live on their own in a 4 bed semi, but families with two or more children probably need 4 bedrooms and what is a traditional family unit?
Why the f--k should you have to take in a lodger if you don't want to? Or would you force people under a political edict, to take in somebody if they had a spare room?
Spare rooms are often occupied by returning offspring or friends and relatives when visiting the family home........what an awful thing to want to have the space to accommodate them!
'Everyone wants holiday homes and investment houses and so on.............generalistic tosh!

Fine, I don't mind you arguing different reasons why we all want such big houses or what to do with it, but deal with the fact first of all:

We have more bedrooms per person than ever before in our society, and yet people say there is a housing crisis.

What say you to that?

Kalimantan Gull · Feb 24, 2020

beorhthelm said:
maybe we should have a levy on the number of spare rooms in each dwelling?

i do know what you are getting at, the type of homes we have are not suitable for modern life. not going to change for another half generation or more, until then we could build some suitable housing.

I simply think society needs to work its way round a problem, perhaps by adopting living standards that were perfectly acceptable just a couple of generations ago, rather than just converting every green space to more houses and then roads to service them.

Furthermore, I bet many of the people saying we have a housing crisis and need to build more are the same who say people shouldn't have to sell their houses to pay for social care, instead they should just be left empty for their kids to inherit one day

HastingsSeagull · Feb 24, 2020

We don't do QUALITY medium and high density dwellings in UK as everyone seems obsessed with a detached house.

GOM · Feb 24, 2020

Kalimantan Gull said:
Fine, I don't mind you arguing different reasons why we all want such big houses or what to do with it, but deal with the fact first of all:

We have more bedrooms per person than ever before in our society, and yet people say there is a housing crisis.

What say you to that?

Housing shortage and bedroom surplus are two very different things. Just because we have more bedrooms doesn't mean there isn't a housing shortage, i.e. a shortage of houses/flats/apartments/family living units..

BLOCK F · Feb 24, 2020

Kalimantan Gull said:
Fine, I don't mind you arguing different reasons why we all want such big houses or what to do with it, but deal with the fact first of all:

We have more bedrooms per person than ever before in our society, and yet people say there is a housing crisis.

What say you to that?

Just because there are more bedrooms per person than ever before, doesn't mean there isn't a housing crisis.
Yes, some older people are living in houses that could accommodate more people than are at present living there.
They have probably had children who have flown the nest, but why shouldn't they have the right to stay in a house that they may have occupied for many years, has loving memories for them, is familiar and cosy to them, in a location that they like and probably close to friends and a social life they enjoy? Besides the fact that they have also paid for it! And ,of course, the family home is somewhere where family members and friends can come and stay. All these factors can be very important in the latter stages of one's life.
We still live in a free society, and as such, people are entitled to stay in property they own, for as long as they wish or are able, and anyway, some may well have to sell/downsize to pay for care later in life.I doubt very much that forcing/incentivising older people to move to smaller accommodation when they don't want to would have a significant impact on the housing problem...........Hmm, the 'Bedroom Tax' comes to mind when we talk about this and that went well didn't it!
There is a housing crisis because there aren't enough houses that people can afford to buy or rent in the area that they wish or need to live in. The fact that some people are living in houses with more bedrooms than occupiers is really not the point, for the reasons that have already been stated.

GOM · Feb 24, 2020

HastingsSeagull said:
We don't do QUALITY medium and high density dwellings in UK as everyone seems obsessed with a detached house.

Not obsessed with detached, just want a bit of garden outside my back door.

LamieRobertson · Feb 24, 2020

Bold Seagull said:
Population growth = good for economic growth.

UK votes for governments based on management of the economy and strong economic growth.

Address population growth and you will likely send the country into recession and be out of government.

We also have a negative birth rate and an ageing population all living longer. Without immigration this would be a huge burden on the public purse.

Unless by reducing population you're prepared to pay a lot more in tax and likely be a lot worse off.

Doh you’ve just ruined his cheap post with facts ..what a bummer

LamieRobertson · Feb 24, 2020

Mustafa said:
The real crisis will be when millions retire without owning their own homes or having decent pensions.

Aye that chickens yet to come home to roost ......all those people (probably me included) claiming rent allowance etc ...it’s going to be a horror show

Kalimantan Gull · Feb 24, 2020

BLOCK F said:
Just because there are more bedrooms per person than ever before, doesn't mean there isn't a housing crisis.
Yes, some older people are living in houses that could accommodate more people than are at present living there.
They have probably had children who have flown the nest, but why shouldn't they have the right to stay in a house that they may have occupied for many years, has loving memories for them, is familiar and cosy to them, in a location that they like and probably close to friends and a social life they enjoy? Besides the fact that they have also paid for it! And ,of course, the family home is somewhere where family members and friends can come and stay. All these factors can be very important in the latter stages of one's life.
We still live in a free society, and as such, people are entitled to stay in property they own, for as long as they wish or are able, and anyway, some may well have to sell/downsize to pay for care later in life.I doubt very much that forcing/incentivising older people to move to smaller accommodation when they don't want to would have a significant impact on the housing problem...........Hmm, the 'Bedroom Tax' comes to mind when we talk about this and that went well didn't it!
There is a housing crisis because there aren't enough houses that people can afford to buy or rent in the area that they wish or need to live in. The fact that some people are living in houses with more bedrooms than occupiers is really not the point, for the reasons that have already been stated.

So in your mind the ONLY solution is to build more houses? Don't you think at some point in this equation, that impacts on the environment, on flooding, and so on, should be weighed against the desire for people to live in very large houses or to own second homes as 'investments' ?

CHAPPERS · Feb 24, 2020

Everyone should live in pods that would sort it.

Herr Tubthumper · Feb 24, 2020

doogie004 said:
Careful you’ll be accused of homophobia, racist or some other bollox

Or just plain stupidity?

Kalimantan Gull · Feb 24, 2020

GOM said:
Housing shortage and bedroom surplus are two very different things. Just because we have more bedrooms doesn't mean there isn't a housing shortage, i.e. a shortage of houses/flats/apartments/family living units..

At its basis a house is somewhere to live. A housing crisis suggests there aren't enough places to live - and I'm pointing out that people hoarding multiple bedrooms may be a reason for this.

But looking at some of the posts on here suggests that we don't have a housing crisis so much as a crisis in shortage of nice 4-bed detached houses with gardens.

Which is very 'first-world problem' isn't it?

I have no doubt that lots of people want to buy these houses for a nice lifestyle, and lots of people want to build these houses to make money, and there is a shortage of both, but dressing it all up as "DISASTER: HOUSING CRISIS!!" seems to me to be a cynical way to get the authorities to release lots of green belt to property developers who initially promise lots of affordable housing but ultimately just squeeze in a couple of flats out the back near where the bins are.

doogie004 · Feb 24, 2020

Herr Tubthumper said:
Or just plain stupidity?

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