[Football] Article: How the Premier League can save the world from VAR

Giraffe · Aug 29, 2019

Great article, spot on. I've been saying the same forever. VAR was always about the money not the fans, and it was always going to detract from the fans experience.

Sadly though I really can't see them getting rid of it now. It is here to stay. The best we can hope is they make it better, but the emotion of scoring a goal may permanently be gone I fear.

Brovion · Aug 29, 2019

Brovion said:
...

Cricket, NFL and rugby league though ...

In fact I like the way Rugby League uses the TV officials. The on-field officials still try and make every decision, and if there is any debate or uncertainty the ref make the square 'TV' symbol with his hands and the incident is referred to the video officials. He does it immediately. So as a fan you know that if he hasn't done that, if he's just pointed to the ground to indicate a try you can go safely ape-shit knowing that it isn't going to be chalked off just before the other side kick off.

VAR helps the officials, it doesn't try and retrospectively referee the game which is where football is going wrong.

blue-shifted · Aug 29, 2019

Agree. Some of the non-calls in cricket are embarrassing. Absolutely embarrassing.

But in football there are consequences. So for example March passes to Maupay. Maupay is through but offside. The lino sees it but isn’t taking any risks and keeps his flag down. In the end, it goes for a corner. We score from it*.

Goal stands, but clearly the corner should never have taken place at all.

*clearly this is a fictional example as it goes in our favour

Easy 10 said:
Lino's are now being instructed to keep their flag down if they're not sure on an offside call - keep it down, let play go on, let VAR sort it out. So this will only become more and more commonplace, because its given them a handy safety net. The same has happened with umpires in cricket judging a run-out. I've lost count of the number of times they've gone for a review, when its been BLATANTLY obvious that the batsmen was either in or out, sometimes by yards !

Fully agree on your offside as well. At the moment, VAR seems to be so heavily weighted in favour of the defence.

blue-shifted · Aug 29, 2019

Clearly VAR is a complete abomination and I’m opposed in principle, but if we have to have it I’d introduce….

15 second time limit for checks. If you can’t see it from the first angle, it’s not a clear and obvious error.

Offside decisions to come under “clear and obvious error” rather than poring over millimetres.

Full replays in stadiums and wired up and miked ref’s.

VAR only to be initated by the ref, lino, or team captain, (within 15 seconds of goal, disallowed goal or sending off)

10 incorrect reviews per team per season allowed. You keep any you get right, but again, you’d have to prove a clear and obvious error.

The only time VAR can be initiated by Stockley Park is for mistaken identity or off the ball incident

symyjym · Aug 29, 2019

The job is too tough for a linesman because they have to keep one eye on the ball from the precise moment it's passed or crossed, and the other eye watching the line from the precise moment the ball leaves the foot, and also try to spot any off the ball incidents in free kicks.

What would make the VAR more palatable would be to switch to the home live radio commentary over the PA system like in our case from Warren Aspinall and Johnny Cantor at Radio Sussex. At least we would know who what when and why, and they could be part of the suspense instead of a frustrating silence.

Seasider78 · Aug 29, 2019

Easy 10 said:
Lino's are now being instructed to keep their flag down if they're not sure on an offside call - keep it down, let play go on, let VAR sort it out. So this will only become more and more commonplace, because its given them a handy safety net. The same has happened with umpires in cricket judging a run-out. I've lost count of the number of times they've gone for a review, when its been BLATANTLY obvious that the batsmen was either in or out, sometimes by yards !

Fully agree on your offside as well. At the moment, VAR seems to be so heavily weighted in favour of the defence.

This does seem to be what officials are doing but also seems against the laws regarding VAR which are clear the officials should make their decision in the same way they would pre-VAR.

So if linesman keep his flag down on clear and obvious offsides they are not following the laws of the game

Original decision
•The referee and other match officials must always make an initial decision (including any disciplinary action) as if there was no VAR (except for a ‘missed’ incident)
•The referee and other match officials are not permitted to give ‘no decision’ as this will lead to ‘weak/indecisive’ officiating, too many ‘reviews’ and significant problems if there is a technology failure

BBassic · Aug 29, 2019

Brovion said:
In fact I like the way Rugby League uses the TV officials. The on-field officials still try and make every decision, and if there is any debate or uncertainty the ref make the square 'TV' symbol with his hands and the incident is referred to the video officials. He does it immediately. So as a fan you know that if he hasn't done that, if he's just pointed to the ground to indicate a try you can go safely ape-shit knowing that it isn't going to be chalked off just before the other side kick off.

VAR helps the officials, it doesn't try and retrospectively referee the game which is where football is going wrong.

That makes a lot of sense.

In that frame, using the disallowed goal on Saturday - hypothetically let's say the lino has flagged Big Dan Burn offside but the ref hasn't seen anything he can then do the TV symbol thing and refer it to the VAR bunker.

Much clearer. Or, as others have said, if the lino has flagged then no need for VAR at all on that occasion.

symyjym · Aug 29, 2019

blue-shifted said:
Clearly VAR is a complete abomination and I’m opposed in principle, but if we have to have it I’d introduce….

15 second time limit for checks. If you can’t see it from the first angle, it’s not a clear and obvious error.

Offside decisions to come under “clear and obvious error” rather than poring over millimetres.

Full replays in stadiums and wired up and miked ref’s.

VAR only to be initated by the ref, lino, or team captain, (within 15 seconds of goal, disallowed goal or sending off)

10 incorrect reviews per team per season allowed. You keep any you get right, but again, you’d have to prove a clear and obvious error.

The only time VAR can be initiated by Stockley Park is for mistaken identity or off the ball incident

Yep, for off sides the video ref should only look at the replay once and if it is inconclusive to the human eye it's onside.

If it has to be played 2 or 3 times in slow motion from different angles it means it is not clear and obvious as you say.

blue-shifted · Aug 29, 2019

For every type of decision, if you can't tell by one replay, let it go

symyjym said:
Yep, for off sides the video ref should only look at the replay once and if it is inconclusive to the human eye it's onside.

If it has to be played 2 or 3 times in slow motion from different angles it means it is not clear and obvious as you say.

Gwylan · Aug 29, 2019

Brovion said:
I'm a Sky subscriber and I would never do that. There is WAY more to Sky than football, indeed for several years now (part of my falling-out of love with football) I've never watched matches on Sky unless we're playing as I have zero interest in any other team.

Cricket, NFL and rugby league though ...

pasty said:
Ditto. 99.99% of the reason I have Sky is cricket.

Ditto for me. I may well cancel Sky after the Ashes has finished though, I'm thinking about it

But you prove my point. VAR is here to stay because the armchair supporters aren't going away - no matter how many people stop watching games

Easy 10 · Aug 29, 2019

Seasider78 said:
This does seem to be what officials are doing but also seems against the laws regarding VAR which are clear the officials should make their decision in the same way they would pre-VAR.

So if linesman keep his flag down on clear and obvious offsides they are not following the laws of the game

Original decision
•The referee and other match officials must always make an initial decision (including any disciplinary action) as if there was no VAR (except for a ‘missed’ incident)
•The referee and other match officials are not permitted to give ‘no decision’ as this will lead to ‘weak/indecisive’ officiating, too many ‘reviews’ and significant problems if there is a technology failure

They're being told to keep the flag down if they're UNSURE - implying that they should always flag the clear and obvious ones, but not the marginal ones which they are unsure about.

Its just a mess though really, isn't it.

Brovion · Aug 29, 2019

Gwylan said:
Ditto for me. I may well cancel Sky after the Ashes has finished though, I'm thinking about it

But you prove my point. VAR is here to stay because the armchair supporters aren't going away - no matter how many people stop watching games

But do the armchair supporters want it? There are at least 2 posts on this thread (#17 and #24) where armchair fans say it's ruining it for them as well. I don't think you can assume they're all in favour.

Of those that don't like it some may give up their subscriptions,but others may find new sports to follow that had previously passed them by. That was certainly the case for me and rugby league.

Seasider78 · Aug 29, 2019

Easy 10 said:
They're being told to keep the flag down if they're UNSURE - implying that they should always flag the clear and obvious ones, but not the marginal ones which they are unsure about.

Its just a mess though really, isn't it.

That’s the madness isn’t it as the threshold or unsure now appears to be everything!!

The Southampton one is surely bread and butter for any competent match official but no we had a review for that as well.

Referees are now terrified of making the wrong decision so everything is going to VAR which was not how it was sold.

In some ways I hope this continues for the short terms as the more car crash this continues to be the bigger the noise against it will be

SweatyMexican · Aug 29, 2019

If you’re at home, you don’t feel the elation of goals as much as the stadium-goer. VAR doesn’t impact them as much.

But for us, it sucks the soul out of the moment. I was persuaded by your way of thinking, but I doubt it will come to pass.

They might change, and alter, and tweek...but I think we’re stuck with it now.

Good article, enjoyed reading that. Thanks :thumbsup:

Easy 10 · Aug 29, 2019

Seasider78 said:
That’s the madness isn’t it as the threshold or unsure now appears to be everything!!

The Southampton one is surely bread and butter for any competent match official but no we had a review for that as well.

Referees are now terrified of making the wrong decision so everything is going to VAR which was not how it was sold.

In some ways I hope this continues for the short terms as the more car crash this continues to be the bigger the noise against it will be

Indeed.

And don't even get me started on that nonsense where they wait till the player runs 50 yards chasing after the ball, touches it, and THEN gets flagged for offside.

I know I'm getting grumpier as I get old, but FFS. So much about football really pisses me off now. Are they doing it deliberately ?

Thunder Bolt · Aug 29, 2019

Gwylan said:
Ditto for me. I may well cancel Sky after the Ashes has finished though, I'm thinking about it

But you prove my point. VAR is here to stay because the armchair supporters aren't going away - no matter how many people stop watching games

If you get a Now TV box you can just subscribe as and when rather than paying every month for years. You can pay for a week when the Ashes matches are on, or just 24 hours for an Albion match.

Brok · Aug 29, 2019

Seasider78 said:
That’s the madness isn’t it as the threshold or unsure now appears to be everything!!

The Southampton one is surely bread and butter for any competent match official but no we had a review for that as well.

Referees are now terrified of making the wrong decision so everything is going to VAR which was not how it was sold.

In some ways I hope this continues for the short terms as the more car crash this continues to be the bigger the noise against it will be

This abomination of a thing (VAR) :annoyed:

is turning more and more people off football, and that is very sad.

Questions · Aug 29, 2019

Whenever we have scored in the past I have always had a quick check by looking at the ref before I go completely mental. Now I check the ref and then wait to see the buzzer in his ear kicking in. I hate VAR.

ac gull · Aug 29, 2019

PL wont have the bottle to do this

Though should a load of overseas rights purchasers complain their views will be far more important than us mere fans

Decisions need to be interactively explained to crowd in stadium and watching tv audience worldwide at same time

As is stands the PL are devaluing their "product"

Money is the only thing that will make PL change its mind on this

Perkino · Aug 29, 2019

I knew on Sunday when Lascelles bundled into Kane and took his legs away without a penalty given that VAR had to make the right call and overturn the decision. No such decision was made thus making all of it a mockery. I'm out

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[Football] Article: How the Premier League can save the world from VAR

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