[News] Euro MPs vote to end summer time clock changes

MattBackHome · Mar 27, 2019

GT49er said:
I wonder who they asked? (not that I am suggesting the EU would set out to get statistics to get the 'right' result, oh no, no, no).

If that is a genuine question, the EU always publishes all their information about this sort of thing. The full report is here:

https://publications.europa.eu/en/p...lication/64e670c5-fcf9-11e8-a96d-01aa75ed71a1

Contains details of methodology, bias, caution against interpretation etc.

Trufflehound · Mar 27, 2019

sully said:
I don't understand how it saves energy

I think one of the main stated reasons in the EC proposal for them changing their minds is that most studies show DST doesn't save much energy. People thought it would, but it doesn't.

sully · Mar 27, 2019

beorhthelm said:
simply you get up later and go to bed later relative to the sunlight in summer. on GMT in summer you'd spend more energy for lighting in the evening, if we switch to BST we'd using more energy for lighting in winter mornings. the problem is our 9-5 workday and hours of sleep is rather poorly align to sunlight hours so we end up using a lot of energy for lighting one end while sleeping in daylight the other. the US recently changed when they do their DST by few weeks, to the beginning of March and first week in Novemeber, to save x billions. they did not do it for giggles.

Thanks. That's sort of why I think BST fits us better, as it generally seems to align more with when most folk are awake.

Bakero · Mar 27, 2019

John Flack, the Conservative MEP for the East of England, said: “We’ve long been aware the EU wants too much control over our lives – now they want to control time itself.

“You would think they had other things to worry about without wanting to become time lords,” he said. . :wozza:

beorhthelm · Mar 27, 2019

Notters said:
But they've shown that there would be far fewer road traffic accidents if we were on permanent British Summer Time as we'd have less dark commuting hours.

do you know if they showed this through evidence or statistical models of what they expect to happen in one period while accounting for the change in the other period? we'd have more hours of dark commute in the winter on BST, that would have some affect on morning accidents. someone noted above the was a suspension of the switch some years ago, so hopefully there is empirical evidence either way. the US would presumably seen a fall in traffic accidents attributable to the change there too.

Thunder Bolt · Mar 27, 2019

GT49er said:
Good news because I like changing the clocks every year. I remember a time when we tried not doing it for a couple of years; it wasn't good.

We changed to BST and didn't change back to GMT which made it far worse. It was still dark at 9am in the northern part of the country, and in Scotland.
Leaving the clocks at GMT would be slightly different.

Thunder Bolt · Mar 27, 2019

Bakero said:
John Flack, the Conservative MEP for the East of England, said: “We’ve long been aware the EU wants too much control over our lives – now they want to control time itself.

“You would think they had other things to worry about without wanting to become time lords,” he said. .

Do these people actually read the directives before commentating?

Taken directly from the article.
Member states should themselves decide whether their citizens live in summer or winter time.

beorhthelm · Mar 27, 2019

Thunder Bolt said:
We changed to BST and didn't change back to GMT which made it far worse. It was still dark at 9am in the northern part of the country, and in Scotland.
Leaving the clocks at GMT would be slightly different.

so you would favor GMT all year round?

sully said:
Thanks. That's sort of why I think BST fits us better, as it generally seems to align more with when most folk are awake.

Sully would prefer BST.

Division!

MattBackHome · Mar 27, 2019

Triggaaar said:
What's that got to do with my post?

Sorry - just reread your post.

The report suggests that there is a link between a countries latitude and exposure to changes in daylight with it's responses (which would make sense.) I reckon that as these types of consultations tend to rely on PR to gain any sort of proper traction that it just hit more of a nerve in Germany than anywhere else.

The 70% of all respondents is also down to Germany's larger population; 3.8% of Germans responded (over 3m people) while only 250k Austrians responded yet this was still 2.9% of them all.

They were definitely all asked the same questions.

Thunder Bolt · Mar 27, 2019

beorhthelm said:
so you would favor GMT all year round?

Sully would prefer BST.

Division!

GMT is British. Greenwich Mean Time and every other country in the world gets their time from us.

On December 21st every year we get 7 hours of daylight, so it is either darker in the morning or darker in the evening. We don't 'gain' anything.

Hamilton · Mar 27, 2019

beorhthelm said:
so you would favor GMT all year round?

Sully would prefer BST.

Division!

Surely we need a poll!

Chicken Run · Mar 27, 2019

Not sure what I favour tbh,

1. Keep DST

2. Stay at GMT year round, 21/6= sunrise at 4am sunset 8pm
21/12 = sunrise at 8am sunset at 4pm

3. BST year round, 21/6= 5am sunrise 9pm sunset
21/12 =9am sunrise 5pm sunset

Steve in Japan · Mar 27, 2019

MattBackHome said:
If that is a genuine question, the EU always publishes all their information about this sort of thing. The full report is here:

https://publications.europa.eu/en/p...lication/64e670c5-fcf9-11e8-a96d-01aa75ed71a1

Contains details of methodology, bias, caution against interpretation etc.

I do wonder whenever I see these EU reports (translated 28 times of course) if it is money well spent. Is the status quo really such a problem (rhetorical question).

Hamilton · Mar 27, 2019

Steve in Japan said:
I do wonder whenever I see these EU reports (translated 28 times of course) if it is money well spent. Is the status quo really such a problem (rhetorical question).

Good question.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/z9rhn39

As always, two sides to the argument. Personally, I'd much rather stay on BST permanently, but there's a 56% / 44% split on this.

ConfusedGloryHunter · Mar 27, 2019

About time too

Triggaaar · Mar 27, 2019

MattBackHome said:
Sorry - just reread your post.

No problem.

The report suggests that there is a link between a countries latitude and exposure to changes in daylight with it's responses (which would make sense.) I reckon that as these types of consultations tend to rely on PR to gain any sort of proper traction that it just hit more of a nerve in Germany than anywhere else.

The 70% of all respondents is also down to Germany's larger population; 3.8% of Germans responded (over 3m people) while only 250k Austrians responded yet this was still 2.9% of them all.

Well that would make sense regarding Austria, but the German population is only about 16% of the EU population, so 70% of the responses is still odd.

beorhthelm · Apr 1, 2019

how has everyone coped with the clock change?

ManOfSussex · Apr 1, 2019

beorhthelm said:
how has everyone coped with the clock change?

Following on from Saturday's match day consumption, I drank copious amounts of Tempranillo preceded by bottles of Heineken last night resulting in time becoming an irrelevant and somewhat inconsequential concept.

Clock change? What clock change?

WATFORD zero · Apr 1, 2019

beorhthelm said:
how has everyone coped with the clock change?

Badly. Pulled out the winder on my 30 year old wristwatch to add an hour and it came off in my hand.

One expensive bill coming up because of changing the bloody clocks :angry:

pb21 · Apr 1, 2019

A compromise could be to change to BST on the first weekend in March, rather than the end, and potentially change to GMT later in the year, say second weekend in November. That would reduced GMT use by 4 to 6 weeks, much better IMO, whilst avoiding the dark mornings in mid-winter.

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